[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 347 Discussion

[Zu Ra]

Spoiler for ....:

Originally Posted by Arachne

You were, you were talking about me, my friends, etc. I was a tween during the MCR era and when Emo was just coming up.

You called tweens mindless sheep and stated they only cheer for villains because they want to be badass. I'd ask you to refrain from personal attacks as well. If you don’t want to be treated with the same discourtesy then I’ll ask you not to do the same.

I dont remember saying <Arachne> is an emo tween ? Did I say that or was I generalizing .... If I was generalizing its NOT a personal attack . Again mindless sheep was how you chose to describe it .

AND Yes I still stand by the generalization ....

Except I am not the one who made a claim about how villains should and should not be portrayed in Shonen. You are, so why shouldn't you be forced to provide some measure of proof?

Here are the PROOFZ on classical shonen villains. After you done watching them if you want to disagree feel free

- Devil Man

- Yamato

- Mazinger

- Gundam 079

- Fist of North Star

- DB

- DBZ

- Flame of Recca

- GWing

History repeats itself so does Fiction ....... You wil see so many Aizens /Ulqi/Byakuyas Gins GJs Stark/Halibel and so on

PM IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE this debate I wont address it in the Thread

No. I am saying if your are going to paint the whole of Bleach villains as being the examples you posted then I must disagree. Also, random villains from Bleach who fit that caricature exist in all mediums.

Its generalization yes there will be exceptions . And if I were you instead of Stark/Halibel/Tesla I would have chosen Byakuya/Zaraki as the antagonist from SS arc

[Jays]

Like I said it last night, someone put a sock in Ulquiorra's mouth, damn he's just soo bloody annoying. This guy is far more hurting than Nnoitra, he's constantly berating Ichigo, talking about how much stronger he is over and over again, like as if he needs to tell himself in order to quell some inner fear that he in fact is not stronger than Ichigo. For once in a long time, I really want Ichigo to just lay the unholy smackdown on this emo clown.

At this point Ulquiorra is on the same degenerate level as Zomari, someone who is genuienely afraid to die, no wonder Grimmjow looks down on him.

[Arachne]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

PM IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE this debate I wont address it in the Thread[/B]

Then why didn't you just PM me in the first place instead of contiuning the argument in this topic if you wanted it moved to PMs?

I hope he doesn't I want to see a psycho Ulquiorra, because once someone like him lose they cool they become psychos (Lelouch comes to mind straight to mind, maybe L cos I didn't read that far into DN to know). If a logical mind like Ulquiorra loses all sense of logic then you know their opponent is screwed.

Honestly, I kind hope he stays in "robot mode" because I like his general lack of emotions. But I suppose it would interesting to see him breakdown too.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by Jays

Like I said it last night, someone put a sock in Ulquiorra's mouth, damn he's just soo bloody annoying. This guy is far more hurting than Nnoitra, he's constantly berating Ichigo, talking about how much stronger he is over and over again, like as if he needs to tell himself in order to quell some inner fear that he in fact is not stronger than Ichigo. For once in a long time, I really want Ichigo to just lay the unholy smackdown on this emo clown.

At this point Ulquiorra is on the same degenerate level as Zomari, someone who is genuienely afraid to die, no wonder Grimmjow looks down on him.

What ?!?!?!?!! Zomari was an idiot.. Ulguiorra knows how strong Ichigo is and he so happens to be 2 times stronger than him ..so he can brag

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by hakisak

Since the first time he met Ichigo. He could sense that Ichigo was the stronger of the two. It doesn't make sense to him. Its a contradiction...how could the strongest guy be such trash. How could such trash, be the strongest guy?

Its something he "desires" know very badly

Didn't he say his reiatsu was higher than his? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think reiatsu levels=strength. I do believe, however, that Ichigo has massive latent potential, which at its peak could definitely defeat Ulqi.
I also thought to myself if Ichigo is the strongest then what is Yammamoto? I couldn't answer my question..

I do agree about Ulqi's curiosity, though.

I also agree with Cub that someone may need to die or at be least seriously injured(to make it a bit more serious), but this is Bleach, where people(the good guys) lose 10 litres of blood and are fine by the next day or two. They just don't die(at least in the present timeline).

[Kuroyuki]

There could be a chance that KB is afraid to kill off someone, since he isn't sure whether the abilties belonging to that character may be much more useful later on in the series.

I still think that it's said that Barigan's fraccions were so week, it only took 1-3 manga volumes to defeat each, and even someone much lower that lieutenant could win. This greatly downgraded the initial strength hyped about the arrancar.

Spoiler:

I mean, if Hitsugaya (sp?) had so much trouble dealing with Sawlong (sp?), then why did Yamichka easily defeat Coolhorn? I mean, really.

Spoiler for quick aside:

Personally, I don't think that Getsuga Tenshou is an ability inherent to Zengetsu. I think that Ichigo was never taught any capabilities of Zengetsu or Tensa Zengetsu, and that Getsuga Tenshou is an ability that is Ichigo's actual equivalent to Ceros.

I think this is so because most of the cababilities that have been displayed by each Zanpaktou is unique to either it's shikai or bankai. This isn't so with Getsuga, since Ichigo himself said that the black Getsuga was an ability of his hollow side.

It was also never depicted that Ichigo couldn't use his black Getsuga while in shikai. Ichigo just always jumps the gun, and powers up to Bankai in the very beginning, making his bankai much less impressive than someone like Byakuya, who only uses his Bankai towards the end of the battle.

-K

[Freya]

Eh I guess hakisak was right. Cero is useless. Black cero didn't even hurt him..

[Glacial]

I am in agreement with Kakashi that Ulquiorra is attempting to discourage Ichigo, and defeat him mentally right now. Of course, Ichigo is going to most likely give us a typical, "Who the hell do you think you are?" soon, to show us all once again how stubborn he is when he wants to win

I am dying to know WHY Ulquiorra really wants to discourage Ichigo, though. What would he gain by making Ichigo give up the fight before he loses? Hmm....

Originally Posted by Kuroyuki

I mean, if Hitsugaya (sp?) had so much trouble dealing with Sawlong (sp?), then why did Yamichka easily defeat Coolhorn? I mean, really.

you know, you bring up a point that hints I need to say something (not aiming it at anyone, just sayin'):

it's quite pointless to make judgments on Hitsu's power level by his fight with Shawlong because he was at 1/5 of his actual strength. He was far below even Lieutenant level in power/damage he could put out, and Shawlong was the leader of the gang of adjuchas before Grimmjow took over...he could be assumed pretty damn strong. And yet, after having used up most of his body's strength, he still managed to 1-shot a released adjucha arrancar once his Limit Release was approved.

as for how he fared vs. Luppi, I'd definitely say he got pawned at first

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Glacial

I am in agreement with Kakashi that Ulquiorra is attempting to discourage Ichigo, and defeat him mentally right now. Of course, Ichigo is going to most likely give us a typical, "Who the hell do you think you are?" soon, to show us all once again how stubborn he is when he wants to win

I am dying to know WHY Ulquiorra really wants to discourage Ichigo, though. What would he gain by making Ichigo give up the fight before he loses? Hmm....

Maybe it is Ulquiorra personally trying to tell himself that humanity and emotions makes you weak and that Ichigo is the embodiment of that. Also it could be something with trying to break him down so that the Espada/Aizen can build him back up in the way they want

[Voduar]

Originally Posted by Glacial

I am in agreement with Kakashi that Ulquiorra is attempting to discourage Ichigo, and defeat him mentally right now. Of course, Ichigo is going to most likely give us a typical, "Who the hell do you think you are?" soon, to show us all once again how stubborn he is when he wants to win

I am dying to know WHY Ulquiorra really wants to discourage Ichigo, though. What would he gain by making Ichigo give up the fight before he loses? Hmm....



you know, you bring up a point that hints I need to say something (not aiming it at anyone, just sayin'):

it's quite pointless to make judgments on Hitsu's power level by his fight with Shawlong because he was at 1/5 of his actual strength. He was far below even Lieutenant level in power/damage he could put out, and Shawlong was the leader of the gang of adjuchas before Grimmjow took over...he could be assumed pretty damn strong. And yet, after having used up most of his body's strength, he still managed to 1-shot a released adjucha arrancar once his Limit Release was approved.

as for how he fared vs. Luppi, I'd definitely say he got pawned at first

While a bit silly, something about Ulq's latest attempts to discourage Ichigo remind me of the old theory that Ulq is in fact the hollow of L, who was driven to become a Vasto Lord after Light got him killed. Less jokingly, I do think we will find out something about not fighting the inevitable in Ulq's background.

Minor nitpick, but wasn't Shawlong just an evolved menos? I seem to remember that Grimmjow was the only adjucha in the group.

[Jays]

Originally Posted by King Lycan

What ?!?!?!?!! Zomari was an idiot.. Ulguiorra knows how strong Ichigo is and he so happens to be 2 times stronger than him ..so he can brag

Zomari was arrogant and "hurting" as an individual, but I wouldn't necessarily call him an idiot because of that, maybe an arrogant fool who was so blinded by his personal feelings that he let all of that get the best of him. However, I hold Ulquiorra in the same regard; Aizen once said to Hitsugaya that "You shouldn't use overly strong words... they make you look weak", I think this fits right in with Ulquiorra's new found boasting abilities, besting that of Nnoitra's and Grimmjow's. If he wants to brag then use actions not words; like I said before, he's attempting to reassure himself that he's not going to die.

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

Didn't he say his reiatsu was higher than his? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think reiatsu levels=strength. I do believe, however, that Ichigo has massive latent potential, which at its peak could definitely defeat Ulqi.

Isn't spiritual pressure a gauge of strength? But at the same time you do bring up a good point, if you can't bring it under control then there's no point in having it shoot off like a canon when it has no aim. I think this highlights a fear that Ulquiorra has, Ichigo has been coming around with his new abilities, and it could potentially come back to bite him in the ass for not getting rid of Ichigo the first time they met.

Originally Posted by Kuroyuki

Personally, I don't think that Getsuga Tenshou is an ability inherent to Zengetsu. I think that Ichigo was never taught any capabilities of Zengetsu or Tensa Zengetsu, and that Getsuga Tenshou is an ability that is Ichigo's actual equivalent to Ceros.

Urahara spoke of "that ability which you must learn to harness if you want to win against the Soul Society", and this was way before any of these events. Not only that but it's something that Ichigo learnt from Zangetsu which is pressumably the crucible of his Shinigami powers, much like Hichigo is the crucible of his Hollow powers. Together (Zangetsu & Hichigo) they create Ichigo's power, the "Viazard". The black GT was first used by his Hollow side which makes Ulquiorra's assumption on the ball, but I think in general it has more to do with it being an ability tainted with Hollow spiritual pressure more than anything, it could be similar to that of a Cero because of the nature of it, but clearly it isn't.

Originally Posted by Kuroyuki

I think this is so because most of the cababilities that have been displayed by each Zanpaktou is unique to either it's shikai or bankai. This isn't so with Getsuga, since Ichigo himself said that the black Getsuga was an ability of his hollow side.

While that is true in some cases, there are others, noteably Byakuya who don't fall in that category. His Bankai is essentially a jacked up version of his Shikai, of course it does have more abilities and what not, but there's nothing his Shikai can do that his Bankai can't. Same goes with Komamura's Bankai, and even to some extent Renji's; I guess this is a very unique case, but in retrospect it could just be the way that Ichigo's powers have manifested themselves.

Originally Posted by King Lycan

It was also never depicted that Ichigo couldn't use his black Getsuga while in shikai. Ichigo just always jumps the gun, and powers up to Bankai in the very beginning, making his bankai much less impressive than someone like Byakuya, who only uses his Bankai towards the end of the battle.

Iba put it best, you gotta stick to your guns in battle if you want to come out on top. If you look at Ichigo's non-bankai battles, he's always come away with winning because of brute strength, his own resolve and ironically, intelligence. Only once did he attain victory because of the ability of his Shikai, and that was against Renji; you can't blame him for that but I see what you're getting it, he doesn't wield his Zanpakto as impressively as other Shinigami, but this also has to do with being still a newbie.

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Maybe it is Ulquiorra personally trying to tell himself that humanity and emotions makes you weak and that Ichigo is the embodiment of that. Also it could be something with trying to break him down so that the Espada/Aizen can build him back up in the way they want

I honestly think Ulquiorra is afraid of Ichigo; in the past three chapters, you could pick at least once when he makes referrence to how much stronger he is than Ichigo, or something to that extent. Personally, I'm not hoping for a Grimmjow fight here, because it's becoming a lame trend of Ichigo barely squeeking out, or at least I want the tables turned on this one.

[WONDERMIKE]

wow, my head just hit the desk when I read the spoiler, Bleach has become so boring lately and wth happened to Ulqiorra?

U: "Oh you pitiful human shall see my oh so overwhelming strength and thus realize your hopeless situation"
*dark cero*
I: lol wut? *fixes mask*

Ulqiorra made an idiot out of himself when he should have been just awesome. Let's hope he will cut this stupid trash talk(even Zommari would be jealous of) after his full transformation. This is serious business for crying out loud

Originally Posted by Voduar

Minor nitpick, but wasn't Shawlong just an evolved menos? I seem to remember that Grimmjow was the only adjucha in the group.

Aizen called Grim's fraccion "the lowest of the gillian" but in Grim's flashback you can see that Nakim was the only gillian. I bet even Kubo can't tell what he really was.

[sayde]

I already know how Ulquiorra is going to be defeated. He's going to be two seconds away from finishing Ichigo off when Zangetsu takes over. Suddenly, time will seemingly slow down as...

http://files.filefront.com/Zangetsu+.../fileinfo.html

But seriously, ^^check it out. Hopefully I made that short 15 second clip worth the 1.39mb download.

I wonder how angry people would be if this fight really ended like that.

[Kafriel]

I honestly think Ulquiorra is afraid of Ichigo; in the past three chapters, you could pick at least once when he makes referrence to how much stronger he is than Ichigo, or something to that extent. Personally, I'm not hoping for a Grimmjow fight here, because it's becoming a lame trend of Ichigo barely squeeking out, or at least I want the tables turned on this one.

Yeah,Ulq's so afraid he keeps telling himself he's stronger...but since he has no emotions I wouldn't say it's fear, more like caution. If this turns out another one of those "Allow me to demonstrate...my resolve" battles, bleach will earn the last place in creativity in my list.

[X_Danny_X]

good thing there is a second release for Ul, he looked so gay with that dress looking outfit when he first release.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Yeah,Ulq's so afraid he keeps telling himself he's stronger...but since he has no emotions I wouldn't say it's fear, more like caution. If this turns out another one of those "Allow me to demonstrate...my resolve" battles, bleach will earn the last place in creativity in my list.

In the end haven't all of Ichigo's fights been like that, he has a flashback reassuring him of his resolve, his opponent has a flashback highlighting their backstory, they go after each other in the end the villain is ended. Hopefully, Ulquiorra after seeing his resolve just utter: 'Even with all that you are still trash' then cut him down, but in reality what I said before is probably going to be the actual ending of the battle because of how unoriginal Tite is a lot of the time.

[kayote]

Originally Posted by X_Danny_X

good thing there is a second release for Ul, he looked so gay with that dress looking outfit when he first release.

is it a second release???? or is it just a complited version of the first??? i think that is key.

[Kafriel]

A second release requires a different call/different name. I don't think Ulquiorra used either.

[bladeofdarkness]

why would he even need a second release NOW
ichigo cant deal with him on THIS level so why use up your last card
just kill him with your corrent level of power (which is already more then enough)
for a guy who took forever to actually use his OTHER HAND, Ulquiorra sure seems in a hurry to raise the stakes

[kayote]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

why would he even need a second release NOW

so he can show Ichi how low a level he is compaird to Uli.