Macross Frontier 2nd Movie: Sayonara no Tsubasa

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by raile

Before heading off to bed, I suddenly find myself appreciating the movie more after watching it the third time around. Mainly because of the fact that this is(/could be) the last Macross Frontier animated production finally sank on me. But then again, at least it went out with a bang, popularity intact.

Macross Frontier was a wild ride. It's one of the animus that I will treasure forever.
(Mainly due to the fact that I met my RL waifu because of it. Yeah, how geeky.. ).

I'll look forward to future Macross projects and will delight in Frontier references and cameos.

Raile is a GUY? I'm shocked!

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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Um, the Vajra Queen folded out with Alto at the end. It's like blindingly obvious too.

Alto survived, that much is obvious. The question is how he will get back, which is only somewhat difficult to discern since he happens to be in telepathic communication with the ultimate folding race in the galaxy. Do things really need to be spelled out entirely these days?

While you are entirely right, I have to counter-ask: Can't we have a fucking clear ending out Kawamori? At least once? Is he still so pissed off that Misa and Hikaru managed to get it done or why does he feel the pressing need to deny his audience a nice sweet clear happy ending?

And before someone loses it in blind Kawamori adoration, I'm tacitly okay with the second movies ending. But, damn, what's the problem with just having a clear happy ending for once?

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Originally Posted by Sinestra

I actually saw a fold as well however others seem to believe they saw an explosion as well, which is what i was reiterating and i see how other viewers could have seen an explosion as well. Again my point was not really directed that much about the scene in general to me that scene was not overwhelming important (because of how the rest of the movie was presented) the dialog itself was more important than the scene. You say its blindingly obvious i say if it was there were be no discussion on any forum as to weather he was alive or deceased.

That discussion mainly happened when people were just going by what others saw in the cinema... as we now all are at liberty to rewind and watch the scene one or two times in a row, it becomes quite obvious that the Vajra queen folded out before the beam spam hit the mountains behind her.

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Originally Posted by Hollowgolem

Part of it is how American entertainment has conditioned us.

See: The Hays Code for a discussion on why Americans have come to expect their heroes to live.

I take issue with it being a "conditioning". It's a preference.

Originally Posted by Hollowgolem

This is Macross. You can't say ANYTHING is official history.

Until the next series, when things are made somewhat clearer.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Raile is a GUY? I'm shocked!

Ask yourself a very simple question.

Alto & Sheryl, who is the wife?

- Tak

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Until the next series, when things are made somewhat clearer.

You mean when we get a Macross 7 sequel?

Originally Posted by Tak

Ask yourself a very simple question.

Alto & Sheryl, who is the wife?

- Tak

Doesn't matter on the circumstance, that question with such an obvious answer never needs answering.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That discussion mainly happened when people were just going by what others saw in the cinema... as we now all are at liberty to rewind and watch the scene one or two times in a row, it becomes quite obvious that the Vajra queen folded out before the beam spam hit the mountains behind her.

Problem is that we don't know whether they edited it for the BD/DVD to make it more obvious.

Either way, what Kawamori intended us to take from it is clear.

----

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Doesn't matter on the circumstance, that question with such an obvious answer never needs answering.

Besides, Sheryl already answered that for us in this film

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by karice67

Besides, Sheryl already answered that for us in this film

I won't be happy unless my future wife is able to make a valkyrie out of an apple, seriously.

I bet even Kawamori can't do that!

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tak

Ask yourself a very simple question.

Alto & Sheryl, who is the wife?

- Tak

Is that a trick question? I think everybody knows the answer already.

Originally Posted by karice67

Problem is that we don't know whether they edited it for the BD/DVD to make it more obvious.

Either way, what Kawamori intended us to take from it is clear.

I concur.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by karice67

Only saw it once at the cinema, so I seriously don't remember!

But I'm pretty certain I thought it highly possible that they didn't make it out...until I reasoned it through over the next week (from the comment about Zero, and working out what the earring flash might have meant - I did actually catch that at the cinema, barely...)...

Okay, better than nothing, I suppose...

Anyway, the way I remember it, there was the sound of a fold charging up, and we all know what that sounds like and roughly how long it takes. And it sounded like it was still charging when the missiles hit.

I definitely don't recall the shot of the Vajra Queen vanishing. And considering that others were apparently "fooled" as well, I think they must have redone the scene.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I already did in this post where it says "end spoilers" under "Queen folds." It is easy to see that the Queen finishes folding before the blasts run through and hit the mountain. THAT is the big explosion.

Okay, but...you have the end of the movie on your phone, right? Why don't you check that and tell us if they changed the scene?

[ChronoReverse]

Did anyone else notice that at the end of the first song (Ranka's) in the credits, you see Sheryl's lips moving in her coma. I'm certain she's saying Alto <3

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Did anyone else notice that at the end of the first song (Ranka's) in the credits, you see Sheryl's lips moving in her coma.

Yes, I think everyone did.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Yes, I think everyone did.

Hehe, it bears repeating then. I was sure I wasn't the only one =)

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Okay, better than nothing, I suppose...

Anyway, the way I remember it, there was the sound of a fold charging up, and we all know what that sounds like and roughly how long it takes. And it sounded like it was still charging when the missiles hit.

I definitely don't recall the shot of the Vajra Queen vanishing. And considering that others were apparently "fooled" as well, I think they must have redone the scene.

If it's anything, enough people were asking about it on 2ch that by the 27th of February, someone set up a Q&A that included that question:

Q、アルト死んだの？
　A、攻撃受ける前にクイーンと共にフォールドしたがそのまま行方不明に

I really wanted to see it again to rewatch that least scene and the credits to check. Can't trust the old memory you know What did the others at Macross World think though? I mean, some of you saw it quite a few times at the cinema, right?

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by karice67

If it's anything, enough people were asking about it on 2ch that by the 27th of February, someone set up a Q&A that included that question:

I really wanted to see it again to rewatch that least scene and the credits to check. Can't trust the old memory you know What did the others at Macross World think though? I mean, some of you saw it quite a few times at the cinema, right?

I haven't asked yet...although right after I saw the movie with my then-girlfriend (which would've been the middle of April), I mentioned that here, at least one person here was questioning my ability to see things correctly, and she also said that the scene was extremely ambiguous.

I'd like to think that if they actually SHOWED the Vajra Queen vanishing in the theatrical version, that at least ONE person would've caught it.

Again, if LMK really did get the end of the movie on her phone, surely she should be able to upload somewhere or at least rewatch it. Right...?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Again, if LMK really did get the end of the movie on her phone, surely she should be able to upload somewhere or at least rewatch it. Right...?

Lets not encourage anything at the moment...

- Tak

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

I haven't asked yet...although right after I saw the movie with my then-girlfriend (which would've been the middle of April), I mentioned that here, at least one person here was questioning my ability to see things correctly, and she also said that the scene was extremely ambiguous.

I'd like to think that if they actually SHOWED the Vajra Queen vanishing in the theatrical version, that at least ONE person would've caught it.

I definitely agree that it was ambiguous - I couldn't have confirmed it either way when I stepped out of the cinema. The only reason I drifted to one side over the following week - over which I had no internet access - was because I'd read about the "watch Zero" comment*, which apparently appeared in the March Newtype. (Checking now, this appears to be a genuine comment based on 2ch comments and blog entries, though I can't find it completely in its original context.)

*well, that and the earring flashing at the end of the small video during the credits.

If none of us Westerners caught it, either we're blind, or some of the Japanese really took in the "watch Zero" hint. Going back over the 2ch threads now, the first time someone noted that the Queen folded was around 12.45pm on the 26th...

[FLCL]

I'm blown away. This was everything the TV series should've been!

9.5/10

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Okay, but...you have the end of the movie on your phone, right? Why don't you check that and tell us if they changed the scene?

I think you fail to remember me posting in a past post to triangler_fans1 that I deleted the video because of the poor quality, small screen, and loss of detail. It worked enough for sound but not exactly the viewing if you want proof. <--(just remembered that I PMed that, but explained same thing.)

A camera with 200mm lens would've been better!

If you actually look back, I also mentioned that I couldn't tell Ranka was running to the fallen Sheryl, so I assumed she'd fallen into Ranka's lap, a small mistake I made due to the small screen and poor detail. Plus, since it was a recording, it kept being moved.

I only kept it for about a month after its release because of the dialogue, but I never watched the footage again because I couldn't really see much. Hell, only the Valkyries were easy to see, and that's when they were up close.

Sheryl looked like a chipmunk, and I didn't actually know that was Alto in the flashback if not for spoilers. Ranka's costume was mistaken by me as a red wedding dress because I couldn't truly see it correctly.

Why post something so distorted?

I pride myself in posting footage with quality. If you noticed on YouTube, I work only with the highest quality footage I can find. I post nothing but. So please, trust me when I say that I'd never release something like that recording. I was just embarrassed about asking for it.

--

Originally Posted by karice67

Actually, he never said that. He just didn't answer Ozma, i.e. you are assuming that that was his plan.

It's not contradicted, but that doesn't mean that it's 100% true either. Please don't put words or plans into the character's mouth.

I get something else out of that scene, but since Alto doesn't say much, I can only make conjectures about how much of what Ozma suggested is true. I suggest you recognise that that's all that you can do as well.

I just re-watched this scene.

You're right. Alto does not reply. Ozma jumps to conclusions and reads Alto as such by how he responds. I love his analogy to Alto though. I've been thinking about that since the TV series ended: "life is a role." It's true. Alto will be forever acting no matter what state because "life" is a "role." No matter if he ended up with either girl, he would play the role of "lover," "pilot," and "boy." It will always be such. Ozma is awesome.

[Yunbo]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

Oooh. I can see it now too. (And it makes sense!) thanks!


But that still doesn't answer what song it might be from... why bother to show/write lyrics on the wall if we never get to hear the song itself? (because honestly, I would love to hear it)

I think the song is just suppose to reflect on Sheryl's current situation.
So how I translate the meaning of the song is that
right now she is having a hard time and that things aren't looking so good for her but the more things are looking down the more she must stay strong. And being strong will be hard but just keep on moving forward, that's life.

Or I can be looking too into it and I just think this cause a lot of new songs I have been listening have the message to stay strong/believe in yourself. :/ But I WOULD love to hear her sing this song though. XD

[Thess]

Ohhh. Observations from my preferred shipping bias, in the TV series, Ranka invites Alto to her first concert with tickets.

In the movie, she invites... Sheryl!

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I think you fail to remember me posting in a past post to triangler_fans1 that I deleted the video because of the poor quality, small screen, and loss of detail. It worked enough for sound but not exactly the viewing if you want proof. <--(just remembered that I PMed that, but explained same thing.)

A camera with 200mm lens would've been better!

If you actually look back, I also mentioned that I couldn't tell Ranka was running to the fallen Sheryl, so I assumed she'd fallen into Ranka's lap, a small mistake I made due to the small screen and poor detail. Plus, since it was a recording, it kept being moved.

I only kept it for about a month after its release because of the dialogue, but I never watched the footage again because I couldn't really see much. Hell, only the Valkyries were easy to see, and that's when they were up close.

Sheryl looked like a chipmunk, and I didn't actually know that was Alto in the flashback if not for spoilers. Ranka's costume was mistaken by me as a red wedding dress because I couldn't truly see it correctly.

Why post something so distorted?

I pride myself in posting footage with quality. If you noticed on YouTube, I work only with the highest quality footage I can find. I post nothing but. So please, trust me when I say that I'd never release something like that recording. I was just embarrassed about asking for it.

Well...that's convenient, isn't it? Deleting the only known recording of the theatrical version of the film, just because the quality was poor...

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Well...that's convenient, isn't it? Deleting the only known recording of the theatrical version of the film, just because the quality was poor...

It's a free country.

Or were you going to force me to keep something so stupid (and small, and otherwise worthless when it comes to the pieces you want) just to prove I had it? That's sick.