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yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 05:41

The biggest disaster under Soviet rule for Russia is the massive population loss. From the Civil War in the 20s, to Stalin and the conflict that is WWII, the Union easily lost anywhere between 30-35 million people. And they wonder why Russian power is on the decline.

mg1942 · 2009-08-20, 06:03

nah, they peaked around Khrushchev era

yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg1942

nah, they peaked around Khrushchev era

Well, in my history classes, I learnt that Khrushchev was pushing the military towards a more missile-intensive army, as the Union did not have enough men to support the Red Army in its state then.

Also, the population level of the Union never fully recovered from WWII.

risingstar3110 · 2009-08-20, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamtale

Typical western way of thinking about Russia

Only thing left for you to say that we march in range and pray to Stalin every morning

You guys don't? (j/k)

Actually, i believe that i pay respects to Stalin more than the average of Russian citizens....

Anyway, the biggest failure of Soviet Union probably come from the Cold War itself. If Cold War 2 happens between US and EU now, i bet without the work of authoritarian, one side would end up have to collapse or have a major "step down" in both economy and military....

SaintessHeart · 2009-08-20, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Also, the population level of the Union never fully recovered from WWII.

What do you expect after coming up with an order of "not a step back"? Either the conscripts die fighting or die from intentional friendly fire.

One thing about the Russians is the number of intelligence coups they scored, namely the Cambridge 5 and Aldrich Ames, among a few. US's damage control departments had a hard time after the KH-11 operations manual was stolen.

yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 10:05

But, economically, the Union and her allies were struggling. The US, Japan, and Germany were the top economies of the world. So, yeah.

Dreamtale · 2009-08-20, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Y
Actually, i believe that i pay respects to Stalin more than the average of Russian citizens....

Really? Why so?

Quote:

But, economically, the Union and her allies were struggling. The US, Japan, and Germany were the top economies of the world. So, yeah.

Prooflink maybe, nope?

yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 10:28

Er..... During the Cold War years, the economic rankings of the three countries can be easily found, unless you believe that they are made up (also West Germany rather than Germany. But, you know).

risingstar3110 · 2009-08-20, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Er..... During the Cold War years, the economic rankings of the three countries can be easily found, unless you believe that they are made up (also West Germany rather than Germany. But, you know).

Consider by 1980, Japan still far from double GDP per capital of USSR, when Japan's population is no where near half, i will say USSR still have the 2nd strongest economy at least up to few years before it's dissolution. (check Gapminder world, just don't mistake Russia and the Soviet)
Edit: a table from wiki took from CIA fact book also said the Soviet by 1990 still have 2nd largest economy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamtale

Really? Why so?

The reasons why i believe the average of Russians do not respect Stalin , or why did i give him a portion of my respect? xD

yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 10:52

Ok. I stand corrected. But, apart from the Union herself, her allies were definitely not in the same league as the US's.

SaintessHeart · 2009-08-20, 10:54

The only thing I pretty much approved is the operation capability of the Spetznaz. The Alfa, Vympel and Zenith operatives pretty much done quite well in their own right as compared to the SFOD-D, SAS or SEALS. The Moscow Theatre and Beslan School sieges are disasters after their units are pretty much forced to stand down since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Now that Russia is overhauling their armed forces in wake of the Georgia invasion, we might be seeing another Cold War soon.

P.S One thing that puzzled me is, why is the USSR so engrossed with advanced ballistic missiles?

yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 10:59

Probably the same reason why they liked chess so much. The maths and science involved is amazing.

Special forces: You know you shouldn't underestimate them. But, yeah. Terrorists nowadays don't really care two hoots about dying. They just want to take as many people along with them as they could.

risingstar3110 · 2009-08-20, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Probably the same reason why they liked chess so much. The maths and science involved is amazing.

You forgot Tertris. Soviet kids have started building things while we still jump on mushroom to rescue princess

(j/k)

Actually i don't know if there is any countries which are not engrossed with advanced ballistic missiles (unless they can't afford to). Then Soviet do not have bases on North America (Cuba is well... we knows why) so of course the ballistic missiles would be loved.....

Quote:

Special forces: You know you shouldn't underestimate them. But, yeah. Terrorists nowadays don't really care two hoots about dying. They just want to take as many people along with them as they could.

Now they really do live up to their name..... -_-'

yezhanquan · 2009-08-20, 11:18

On the issue of terrorism, that is another topic for another day.

SaintessHeart · 2009-08-20, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

On the issue of terrorism, that is another topic for another day.

Well last month they had a large scale military/terrorism exercise with China, extensively focused on counter-terrorism. I wonder if they had predicted the Xinjiang riots in advance?

Dreamtale · 2009-08-20, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

The reasons why i believe the average of Russians do not respect Stalin , or why did i give him a portion of my respect? xD

Second. I think you've guessed *_*

mg1942 · 2009-08-20, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

P.S One thing that puzzled me is, why is the USSR so engrossed with advanced ballistic missiles?

They can't maintain hi-tech and sophisticated conventional forces like NATO and US. If nukes were taken out of the equation, USSR Warsaw pact would be sitting ducks by US NATO if they ever went to war using conventional forces in the 70s/80s.

LeoXiao · 2009-08-20, 12:38

Advanced ballistic missiles! Me want!

I think it's to make sure no one can shoot them down ever, so that they always serve as a good deterrent. Russia has a lot of high-tech stuff, just not enough money to run all of it. During the Cold War they tried doing that (effectively running into NATO's trap) and it failed.

Quote:

I wonder if they had predicted the Xinjiang riots in advance?

Eh, China has riots all the time. We only heard about this one since Uighurs were involved.

Dreamtale · 2009-08-20, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg1942

They can't maintain hi-tech and sophisticated conventional forces like NATO and US. If nukes were taken out of the equation, USSR Warsaw pact would be shooting ducks by US NATO if they ever went to war using conventional forces in the 70s/80s.

Facepalm welcome you!

risingstar3110 · 2009-08-21, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamtale

Second. I think you've guessed *_*

I respect Stalin's position/decision at most during WW2
Because if i was in his position during that great war then i probably wouldn't be able to do shit comparing to what he really did (yeah i fantasized more than once before about how it's like to stand in his shoe).

Obviously he is responsible for the harsh punishment toward deserted troops and it contribute quite a portion to Soviet lost troops in WW2. But considering how brutal World War 2 is and how Soviet troops by to the end of the war still be majorly conscripts (some with war experience, some are not), if he ever decide to do otherwise, it may cost him the lost of battles and eventually the lives of countless citizens.

Giving such harsh decision to make, most people would have ran away and push the blame to other, especially when he was in such mistrusted position that he was constantly fear for his life and how worse the situation would become if he died(i think he has once mentioned to Zhukov about during the war how much he afraid of being assassinated, and even be scared to death by his own shadow) . But he stayed and made through it, that's why he got my respect...

Of course he have more good points than that. But considering how he was seen as a "stupid, evil dictator, who plan out the whole war on the world map" by both the West and the East after his death..... it's hard to further argue more strong points. After all, even Obama is against this man

2009-08-20, 05:41	Link #21
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	The biggest disaster under Soviet rule for Russia is the massive population loss. From the Civil War in the 20s, to Stalin and the conflict that is WWII, the Union easily lost anywhere between 30-35 million people. And they wonder why Russian power is on the decline. __________________

2009-08-20, 10:05	Link #26
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	But, economically, the Union and her allies were struggling. The US, Japan, and Germany were the top economies of the world. So, yeah. __________________

2009-08-20, 10:28	Link #28
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Er..... During the Cold War years, the economic rankings of the three countries can be easily found, unless you believe that they are made up (also West Germany rather than Germany. But, you know). __________________

2009-08-20, 10:52	Link #30
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Ok. I stand corrected. But, apart from the Union herself, her allies were definitely not in the same league as the US's. __________________

2009-08-20, 10:54	Link #31
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	The only thing I pretty much approved is the operation capability of the Spetznaz. The Alfa, Vympel and Zenith operatives pretty much done quite well in their own right as compared to the SFOD-D, SAS or SEALS. The Moscow Theatre and Beslan School sieges are disasters after their units are pretty much forced to stand down since the fall of the Soviet Union. Now that Russia is overhauling their armed forces in wake of the Georgia invasion, we might be seeing another Cold War soon. P.S One thing that puzzled me is, why is the USSR so engrossed with advanced ballistic missiles? __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2009-08-20, 06:03	Link #22
mg1942 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008	nah, they peaked around Khrushchev era

2009-08-20, 10:59	Link #32
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Probably the same reason why they liked chess so much. The maths and science involved is amazing. Special forces: You know you shouldn't underestimate them. But, yeah. Terrorists nowadays don't really care two hoots about dying. They just want to take as many people along with them as they could. __________________

2009-08-20, 11:18	Link #34
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	On the issue of terrorism, that is another topic for another day. __________________