Guilty Crown - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[DarkyPwnz]

Originally Posted by Arya

If they rebelled way before, what option would they have to survive, to escape from that trap? That plan was their best chance to escape. Knowing to have 50/50 odds to survive, at best.
From my point of view all the students knew very well that they wouldn't have the strength and the resources to escape. In fact they elected him not out of sympathy, but for his strength. Voids were the only resources they could rely on. So rebelling before being freed it would be pointless.
We could argue about how Shu could have reacted to that, (killing them?) so probably they knew that Gai would have backed them up.


Anyways the best ending would be the EoE ending, with Shu lying on a beach with Mana and Inori beside him ... drinking mojito

Two girls one Shoe.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I think they waited to rebel because they did need Shu. They just had to get their revenge after they won. Even though Shu could have done it by himself.

1- It's like they knowledge that Shu way is the best way to get most of them out but they need someone to blame all their behavior towards each other (e.g.: walking over F-rank) so they use Shu to make all hard choose which any leader will have to make if he want to save all of them instead of saving his own (like great Arisa who decide to wait for help from her family which we know that only plan to save her).
And when he finally success to turn the impossible possible they throw him away as if they would rather he never made that choose even if it mean their doom.


2- Shu can't do it 100% by himself(That why he need meat shield in first place).
And why should he sacrifice himself for other he don't know or need or not even worth it?

Edit: And it look like the reason A rank was been given VIP treatment was for this mission(they are the one who will fight Ghost unit head to head unlike F-groups).

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It actually is, because it is nonsensical: the very problem itself is that such plan would put most of them in a dire state, especially after what they learned.
Therefore, the rebellion after the whole plan, past the dubious double standards, doesn't make sense by itself: they would have rebelled way before the plan is in motion instead.

This is exactly what i disliked about the whole betrayal scenario. If i were one of the students and i learned that i would die if my Void broke. I would go ahead with an all out assault on the GHQ where the chances of me dying are now multiplied. I find it funny that no one approached Shu or any one of the leaders before the Exodus and said look the students are scared they heard that if your Void breaks you will die. It makes no sense to go along with a leader's plan whom you condemn for the way he did things but you went along with the plan to escape then turn around to stab the guy in the back after the plan actually worked and they were able to escape.

You dont start a rebellion after the fact.

[Aesthetic Shampoo]

Originally Posted by andy

So if he was going to say no over and over why would he not leave ?
Before Shu was the president he had to save the school when it got attack , before he was the president he had to show them that GHQ would have kill them any way .

As i said he had 2 choices leave with small group or stay and take care of everyone .

He wouldn't leave because he had nowhere else to go maybe. And as it was said earlier, because members of his group would not want to. And just because he's not the president doesn't mean he can't help at all.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

So if I help my friends = I walk over them?
He decide to help him (would you rather him to act as if he saw nothing?)

He was biting off more than he could chew. Now, i don't remember the exact details of that episode very well and i don't want to go into it much because this isn't the right thread, but i thought he could have handled the situation better. He was hiding it out with Yahiro and called the undertakers over. Fair enough, but he could have waited till it was closer to the meeting time before going out so then at least undertaker people could have helped them when GHQ attacked. Or he could have bypassed calling the Undertakers at all, and just sneak out and get a vaccine for Yahiro's bro while telling them to hide. So, the "walking all over my 'friend' (debatable)" part was just Shu calling the Undertakers to show off his new hot stuff friends and how cool he was. IIRC, when he called, they even told him there was a procedure to go through before they could do something like that but of course he didn't listen...

Originally Posted by Gundamx

What she done beside waiting for help that we know that will never come?
She is far worse than Shu at leading.

Not necessarily, maybe she would have acted differently once Shu used Tsugumi's void to prove what would happen if they went out there. And you can't say who would be a better president because their circumstances were different. Arisa was pres before the Tsugumi void stunt, Shu after. And what would you suggest Arisa do instead of saying wait for help? Go outside, attack and acquire vaccines? What would Shu have done? Get up on stage and tell everyone about the voids and his power, and that he was with the undertakers and would help them? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Because he know that Shu is the only one with power to lead them.
If anyone else decide to lead them = how will you know that they will follow you?
There is no cop or rule you know = they need strong person to rule.

I said this before, but if it wasn't Shu for President then it would be either Arisa or Yahiro, because there were no other characters who would take the role (asshole duo still unconscious here), unless the writers decided to introduce a new character. That obviously didn't happen, so i won't go into it.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

What do you think is president rule? It's to say yes or no to big plan.
(You don't really believe that president know everything from military to business to Doctor/science do you? Or why do they have advisers, ministers, generals...etc?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. What you said is right, but, again, saying yes or no to big plans is not Shu exclusive, just like distributing those vaccines wasn't. It didn't have to be Shu doing those things, anyone could have.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

At that time he was plan to save them all so that = was big no.
But than he learn reality by hard way and let F group get their own vaccines by their own hand

He was tricked into getting Souta and his groups' voids out remember? They said they wanted to practice to be more helpful.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

So why should he stay if he was not their leader?
It's far easier to just get out alone/in small group(lesser than 10) than with big group( hundred if not thousandth students.)
(If he was selfish to ignore their pleads to lead them than why wouldn't he be selfish to get out alone/in small group?

So its meaningless to stay unless you're the leader? Yes, a smaller group would be easier, but i think it was earlier established that no one really wanted to leave. And like i said earlier, just because he's not the leader doesn't mean he can't help. He has this awesome power; why wouldn't he? And he wouldn't be selfish to ignore their pleads to lead them, it would be selfish for them to plead for him to lead them. Repeatedly. If he had some good judgement (which we now know he doesn't), he wouldn't cave in to all these bullshit requests and and maybe just choose the ones that aren't stupid and actually have a real purpose and a good chance of success to follow through with.

Originally Posted by Arya

I disagree here. I mean, in that episode everyone, except maybe Shu, knew that Shu should have been the leader. Arisa lost all her credibility in front of the students, as the 2 assholes. Arisa having no solutions at all, the seconds following rumors as n00bs. The only problem is that Shu knew that he was not fitted for the role, as events have subsequently shown. But again that was the one and only solution.

Again, if it wasn't going to be Shu because he said no, it would be Arisa or Yahiro, because there would be no one else unless the writers decided to introduce a new character. And no one from the student body would step forward either, because as i said earlier, they are cowards who want something done but are too cowardly to do it themselves. And if Shu knew he wasn't fit for the roles, then who shouldn't have taken it with a half hearted resolution, knowing he wouldn't be able to live up to their expectations. But he did, and look where that got him...

[errorrrr]

Originally Posted by Sunnythesun

Agreed. They're polar opposites, actually. I find suzaku to be really self-righteous, whereas Shu is self nothing. Depressed and emo, always thinking nothing of himself. Which is why he leaps at the opportunity (like and idiot, i might add) to have some power over others and be someone for once despite knowing that's not who he is.

Though really, stop comparing Guilty crown and Code Geass. The basic of the basic premise sound similar, but they really are nothing alike characters and all. In fact, i can't help but think it was some marketing scheme to get people into this; promote GC as something similar, if not better, to the popular CG and watch as the viewers come rolling in...and if that's the case, i can safely say that its worked

That's exactly my point.

Guilty Crown tries SO hard to be like serious of an anime such as Code Geass but fails so hard.

The comparison of the two are similar but yet disimilar at the same time, because well GC tries to be CG but fails so hard and crap compare to CG...

I still have yet get a satisfactory explanation of how they can justify killing of Haru who saved Shu with her life but to have Shu get F*** up in the A** so hard 2 ep later.

[king12354]

Those B2 Bombers can't come fast enough and end this mess. A 10 rating will be waiting.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by errorrrr

I still have yet get a satisfactory explanation of how they can justify killing of Haru who saved Shu with her life but to have Shu get F*** up in the A** so hard 2 ep later.

Hare had to die to move Shu. I knew it was coming after I found out she's liked him since forever. I was sad when I saw her in a bikini because I knew it was only a matter of time.

And Shu got screwed because he went too far. Not to mention he has to lose something like his power to regain his sense of self and find the proper path. I'd hate to be a broken record, but it's the monomyth.

Lastly, I think GC had a lot of good pieces to work with but fell short. I had thought it'd be Death Note + Code Geass = Guilty Crown. But it's really Death Note x Code Geass = Guilty Crown + Disappointment.

[Sixth]

LOL..the posts in this thread finally reached 400+ post. I wonder, will the next episode able to surpass this thread? Can't wait for next episode.

[dark998]

Upon a couple of rewatches this really was one of the best episodes so far, up there with 4, 6, 11, 12 and 15. Sure, things turned out badly for Shu at the last second but he will recover from that blow. Episode 18 is supposed to be another turning point (the final one?) so that will balance the scale between the sides in this conflict.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by errorrrr

That's exactly my point.

Guilty Crown tries SO hard to be like serious of an anime such as Code Geass but fails so hard.

The comparison of the two are similar but yet disimilar at the same time, because well GC tries to be CG but fails so hard and crap compare to CG...

I still have yet get a satisfactory explanation of how they can justify killing of Haru who saved Shu with her life but to have Shu get F*** up in the A** so hard 2 ep later.

That's saying CG was even any more serious than this at all....


Why is it so hard to understand the Shoe's actions? He's an unstable kid who really has no one to rely on but himself. If adults don't fare any better why would he?

This is exactly what i disliked about the whole betrayal scenario. If i were one of the students and i learned that i would die if my Void broke. I would go ahead with an all out assault on the GHQ where the chances of me dying are now multiplied. I find it funny that no one approached Shu or any one of the leaders before the Exodus and said look the students are scared they heard that if your Void breaks you will die. It makes no sense to go along with a leader's plan whom you condemn for the way he did things but you went along with the plan to escape then turn around to stab the guy in the back after the plan actually worked and they were able to escape.

You dont start a rebellion after the fact.

Yeah, that was perhaps the most nonsensical bit of all

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by errorrrr

I still have yet get a satisfactory explanation of how they can justify killing of Haru who saved Shu with her life but to have Shu get F*** up in the A** so hard 2 ep later.

My guess? This show is about Shu being kicked down again and again and again, Shame the guy and kick him more.

Until he can't take it no more and burst his hate out.

It's only a matter of time.

[Crontica]

If there is one thing i can look forward to after each episode it is the rage threads on the forums.
I don't even know which side you guys are on anymore.

[djmaca]

I'm all for Shu.

[errorrrr]

I can safely declare this anime to be nicked name:

"How to properly screw a shoe."

I've not seen a MC screwed so hard like our Shu here... From Ep 1 to ep 17, hes just been screwed (childhood), screwed again (incidentally running into Inori), screwed again (got himself into that Sougisha), screwed yet again (seeing his child hood friend, Gai "die"), screwed ANOTHEr time (her childhood girl buddy who confessed to him the same ep she died), then screwed ANOTHER another time (by the ppl he trying to save), then screwed ONE more time (with his arm cut off).

Really...? c'mon. It's like I am watching this just to self-inflict pain upon my heart, which the MC is suppose to be the "viewer's character".

Do you guys really enjoy yourself being screwed THIS many time?

[andy]

The only reason i still watching this show is to see most of the chars die now.
Along with Shu coming back and doing something hopefully.
Like screwing over back everyone that mess with him.

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Crontica

If there is one thing i can look forward to after each episode it is the rage threads on the forums.
I don't even know which side you guys are on anymore.

Quite simple, each and every poster is on his opinion side. Just like things flow in the anime, opinions flow with them. One day you hate Inori, next you don't know and next you like her. One day you wonder why Shu is a retard who is used, then next day you watch him using others (more or less).
To be frank this thread doesn't have much rage. All it have is people being dissapointed or sad about Arisa, some people wondering why kids rebelled at that point, while others wanting them to pay for their crime.

If you would want to see rage then all you would need is to for K-on or any other Moeblob girl loose her virginity. Internet would burn in flamewar and authors would need to build a bunker in their houses.
Thats the difference between normal opinion/criticism, and retarded fans rage.

Originally Posted by errorrrr

I can safely declare this anime to be nicked name:

"How to properly screw a shoe."

I've not seen a MC screwed so hard like our Shu here... From Ep 1 to ep 17, hes just been screwed (childhood), screwed again (incidentally running into Inori), screwed again (got himself into that Sougisha), screwed yet again (seeing his child hood friend, Gai "die"), screwed ANOTHEr time (her childhood girl buddy who confessed to him the same ep she died), then screwed ANOTHER another time (by the ppl he trying to save), then screwed ONE more time (with his arm cut off).

Really...? c'mon. It's like I am watching this just to self-inflict pain upon my heart, which the MC is suppose to be the "viewer's character".

Do you guys really enjoy yourself being screwed THIS many time?

Watch evangelion.
Thing is Shinji actually rebeled and later went berserk.

Wonder if GC authors have balls to make shu go berserk when he regains power.

[errorrrr]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

Quite simple, each and every poster is on his opinion side. Just like things flow in the anime, opinions flow with them. One day you hate Inori, next you don't know and next you like her. One day you wonder why Shu is a retard who is used, then next day you watch him using others (more or less).
To be frank this thread doesn't have much rage. All it have is people being dissapointed or sad about Arisa, some people wondering why kids rebelled at that point, while others wanting them to pay for their crime.

If you would want to see rage then all you would need is to for K-on or any other Moeblob girl loose her virginity. Internet would burn in flamewar and authors would need to build a bunker in their houses.
Thats the difference between normal opinion/criticism, and retarded fans rage.



Watch evangelion.
Thing is Shinji actually rebeled and later went berserk.

Wonder if GC authors have balls to make shu go berserk when he regains power.

Shinji wasn't even screwed as many times or close as Shu.

Shinji wasn't crossed by others even close to the degree that Shu has been crossed and dumped.

In some ways, lelouch was also crossed, but to be completely honest, I did not feel the heart aches watching lelouch. I guess it's because the writers had some balance that always had gave Lelouch some kind of come back...

But Shu? I think my biggest criticism of GC is the lack of balance in the writing, simple as that.

And P.S.

Losing vriginity to a "legitimate" cause is much less than whoring one self out. Whoring yourself out is as detestable as it gets as far as character traits/personality goes. To me, it's worst than this "neo-Gai" coming back and cutting of the MC's arm without much of a word other than "what's up?"

[Toto y Moi]

How awesome would it be if this show had a bad end? The last episode made me wonder if the creators want Shu to stay an insufferable, whiny lout. Think about how generic the characters are and how generic the character design is--what if we've been trolled this entire time? What if everyone in the show ends up dying and the show itself ends up criticizing Shu as a terrible protagonist?

I don't know how much lower he can go...every decision he makes seems to be the wrong one, and now he's raping his friends... I could see a bad end happening on noitaminA.

[FateAnomaly]

The best end for this show would be he goes berserk and kill everyone in the whole world except Inori(Mana). A fitting end for a fucked up world.

[Aesthetic Shampoo]

The only reason i watch this now is to see every single one of them suffer. The only exceptions being Ayase and Inori, who haven't really been given a reason to hate. The thing is, one of the things i look forward to seeing most happened this episode: Shu getting fucked. What i was not prepared for, nor what i wanted to see, was the things that made me rage and took away all the joy i looked forward to so damn much. I was still feeling crap about Arisa when Gai showed up. At this point, i knew Shu was gonna get some so i tried to get into it. I actually enjoyed it for about a second until that "MY KINGS POWERRRR", which of course made me facepalm and spark off all those crappy feelings again.

Still looking forward to a couple of certain people being burned alive though