Star Wars: The Old Republic (MMO)

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I guess that just means Revan...

*puts glasses on*

...took an arrow to the knee.

YEEEAAAH

/slaps you in the back of the head with the force

Arrow to the knee he took.


oh yea, check out my new title

[MeisterBabylon]

Sup guys, so I heard some people are still waiting for ME3 to be officially launched?



Well, I'm already playing Fem Shep.

*ruuuuuuunz*

[Kyero Fox]

Sigh, I was hoping for some big update I havent heard of... thanks.

[MeisterBabylon]

I was trying to inject some life back into the thread... But I guess you can't revive that which has no life.

[MeoTwister5]

So... can you get to level 50 well enough without doing the planetary bonus quests?

[MeisterBabylon]

I don't know... I ran out of money to sub so I'm playing STO now.

[MeoTwister5]

I'm playing a 60 day game right now, on Swiftsure, since that's where all the Filipino players are at.

[MeisterBabylon]

I'm Jay'n Shepard, Vanguard on Swiftsure too. Working on building a good crew. Yes, I'm playing Mass Effect... in Star Wars.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I know this is kind of thread necromancy, but bear with me. I got this game about 2 weeks or so ago. Late to the party, but I've found a lot to like about this game.

So here I go, I got stuff to share and some questions, mostly pertaining to PvP builds.

My main is a level 44 Mercenary (Bounty Hunter) right now, and I'm having a blast. PvE is more or less a cakewalk (high DPS and ability to self-heal = win), and I can do reasonably well in PvP. I might not get more than 4-6 medals a game, but I'm almost always on the top of the charts when it comes to damage. I can also take on just about any other class 1 on 1, though sometimes a circling melee spammer gets me. It's annoying since I can't turn automatically with some of my abilities.

I also have a secondary character, which is a level 27 Sith Sorceror (Inquisitor), specced for lightning damage. Great for PvE, but that last time I went into PvP I got DESTROYED. I'm not sure if it's my lack of skill, or if I'm too low level, or I'm not specced right for my play style, or all three. I get targeted by interrupting attacks constantly and I can't do the damage I thought I was speccing for. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I just started a third character yesterday, a lvl 11 Scoundrel (Smuggler). I've found the smuggler's abilities to be very dependent upon whether or not you have viable cover. Not sure if I'm using the class right (VERY different ranged class from the Bounty Hunter and Soldier classes), but seems to be underpowered to me (maybe it's the Scoundrel sub-class), and I'm not so sure about the use of Stealth in pvp, other than getting to objectives undetected. I'm not going to even attempt PvP yet with it because I know I'll just get wrecked.

I'm wondering what everyone's opinions are about the Jedi classes as applies to PvP (PvE is fairly easy and you can get away with any build, minus flashpoints and heroic quests).

If I'm going to do Jedi Knight, I'll probably do Guardian. Sentinel has nice DPS but from what I heard, the defense tends to be.... squishy. I prefer to be able to tank when necessary. I assume I'd end up doing the Tank skill tree, but recommended builds would be useful.

If I do Jedi Counselor... well I'm not sure. I was thinking for Shadow for the stealth abilities, but I have NO idea if the Sage is comparable to the Sorceror (better or worse). I know they're counterparts, but I'm not sure which I should choose, and with which build. And if someone suggests Shadow, what's the best way to use it in PvP? I've seen many Shadows/Assassins just run up and circle-spam a ranged class, but I've got no idea about the better builds...

[creb]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I also have a secondary character, which is a level 27 Sith Sorceror (Inquisitor), specced for lightning damage. Great for PvE, but that last time I went into PvP I got DESTROYED. I'm not sure if it's my lack of skill, or if I'm too low level, or I'm not specced right for my play style, or all three. I get targeted by interrupting attacks constantly and I can't do the damage I thought I was speccing for. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

You're probably doing it wrong. Sorc hybrids will likely take a hit when patch 1.2 hits (which is rumored to be thursday). That said, even at level 10, I was able to run around and do 200k+ damage and 100k+ healing on my Sorc, which incidentally never got past level 20 as I found it entirely too boring (easy).

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I just started a third character yesterday, a lvl 11 Scoundrel (Smuggler). I've found the smuggler's abilities to be very dependent upon whether or not you have viable cover. Not sure if I'm using the class right (VERY different ranged class from the Bounty Hunter and Soldier classes), but seems to be underpowered to me (maybe it's the Scoundrel sub-class), and I'm not so sure about the use of Stealth in pvp, other than getting to objectives undetected. I'm not going to even attempt PvP yet with it because I know I'll just get wrecked.

You didn't say what spec you are leveling as. Heal, melee dps, or mid range dot/aoe spec (basically corresponding to the trees from left to right). Healing only requires two points to drastically increase your healing effectiveness. Melee dps requires, a bare minimum, of level 20 in order to even start feeling like an effective melee dps (take note of what skill you can pick up in your tree then). dot/aoe spec is bad. If you're going to pvp at level 11, pretend you're a gunslinger. Your bolstered stats at level 11 let you hit for quite a bit. Doing 200k+ damage should be easily doable.

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I'm wondering what everyone's opinions are about the Jedi classes as applies to PvP (PvE is fairly easy and you can get away with any build, minus flashpoints and heroic quests).

If I'm going to do Jedi Knight, I'll probably do Guardian. Sentinel has nice DPS but from what I heard, the defense tends to be.... squishy. I prefer to be able to tank when necessary. I assume I'd end up doing the Tank skill tree, but recommended builds would be useful.

You're hearing things wrong. Sentinels are anything but squishy in pvp, though it takes many levels for them to obtain all their tools, and they have quite possibly the most tools for pvp. My first 50 was a Marauder (imperial mirror), and even though I'm playing my Republic alts more these days, she's still a one-woman wrecking ball.

Guardian sucks. Shadow and Vanguard are far better 'tanks' in pvp, and Guardian dps trees are lackluster, unless you enjoy running around smashing noobs incapable of avoiding your hard hitting Sweeps (to be fair, there are a lot of noobs in pug warzones, so you will likely have many moments where you feel great doing that).

That said, a Guardian tank/vigilance hybrid (high survivability, cc, and inability to be CCed for 4 s after each Force Charge, which can be chained using Force Push) is pretty much a one-trick pony scoring machine in Huttball, so it's not all bad.

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

If I do Jedi Counselor... well I'm not sure. I was thinking for Shadow for the stealth abilities, but I have NO idea if the Sage is comparable to the Sorceror (better or worse). I know they're counterparts, but I'm not sure which I should choose, and with which build. And if someone suggests Shadow, what's the best way to use it in PvP? I've seen many Shadows/Assassins just run up and circle-spam a ranged class, but I've got no idea about the better builds...

The Imp and Republic classes are mirrors of each other. There are some 'bugs' that cause some classes to behave better than their mirrors, but the intention is that they are supposed to be the same.

Shadow is arguably the best pvp class in the game (or Assassin if you're Imperial). Generally, they do a hybrid tank/balance build, that gives them the best survivability to damage ratio of the 'tank' classes. That said, it is also arguably the most boring class to play as well. As for how you play:

* Hotswap Guard on targets as needed (and always turn it off if your target moves out of range, so another tank can drop guard on them if need be; I can't stress how annoying it is to other tanks if they are trying to place Guard on someone you have Guard on, while you are half way across the other side of the map).

* Use Pull to peel people off your healers, voidstar door bomb planters, etc.

* Use Pull to pull your team mate to you as a reverse peel or fast scoring in Huttball (Shadow stealth + Pull + speed = Hutball heroes; keep in mind you need to be out of stealth to catch a ball though).

* Use Pull (among other CC) to keep a Tank away from his Guarded healer (especially try to combine with geometric obstacles to make his return to Guard range as hard as possible).

* Use Pull in Huttball for Acid/Fire damage/kills.

* Don't spam your high Force cost abilities. You have procs that reduce or remove the cost of them for a reason.

* Don't be shy over using Force Lift to CC, regardless of how often someone randomly breaks it early.

* Be not afraid to be annoying (or in your opponent's words, 'cowardly') to lock down a node/door long enough for reinforcements to arrive.

* Do not just sit in stealth and let the enemy take a node/door because you're afraid of dying. If you're able to delay them long enough for reinforcements to arrive, your death was worth it.

* Use sprint to jump over the gap between the two bridges on Voidstar. Pull team mate over.

Of course, these are all just a sample of my opinions, and much of what I said does generally require you to be higher level as hybrid builds are costly in that regard. I also currently have a level 50 of each of the classes (or their mirrors) that you specifically wanted info on, except the Sorceror/Sage.

At lower levels, you should be honing your ability to kite and abuse los with your limited abilities while always keeping half an eye on your minimap and raid frames (to know where help is needed by keeping track of your team mate's dots on your map vs which team mates have their hp bars dropping), so that by the time you have your full toolset, you are a lethal machine who does all that without thinking.

You want to be the player that doesn't have to be told 'E door' in Voidstar, or 'W needs help' in Alderaan, or 'Pass pass pass' in Huttball, because you have the situational awareness so few players do. If it's not already naturally something you do, there's no better time to do it than at level 11, since you have the fewest abilities to keep track of, giving you ample time to make all of that a habit.

Also, the game defaults to nameplates off. Turn all nameplates on. That's how you know what everyone on the battlefield is doing from a glance, since the castbars are part of the nameplates.

[MeoTwister5]

I have a Jedi Shadow that's, of all things, Balance build. Most Shadows I've seen play standard rogue builds or Kinetic Combat, but I don't see a lot of Balance build. They say that in the Balance Shadows are a pain in the ass to level and farm, but are OP endgame.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Thanks for the input, guys. I never considered the balance build. I was looking at the middle and left trees. I'll definitely give it a try. Not like I have anything to lose, since I can always respec later if it's not working out.

I had no idea force pull could be used on teammates. I've never seen it used that way. That sounds really useful for pulling friendlies out of danger and enemies away from healers, objectives, disrupting channeled/charge attacks and overall being an annoying enemy to fight. Sounds like my kind of class!

And while I know this really doesn't have much to do with anything... double-bladed lightsabers are just badass, anyway.

But I only said Sentinels are squishy because when I play my mercenary, I cut through them pretty quickly, assuming it's 1v1. I don't think I've ever actually lost a 1v1, it's only when I'm trying to fight more than 2 people at once that I can't out-DPS them, since I have the Missile tree, which is practically MADE for 1v1. The damage is still good, even after they supposedly nerfed the class (I don't know firsthand since I didn't own the game when they made that balance adjustment).

On the subject of Guardians/Juggernauts being worthless, though... I don't know if I can agree. I see quite a few of them in PvP pubs and they seem to do reasonably well, assuming they aren't fighting 3 people, alone. That being said, their effectiveness is much greater with a dedicated healer. As a Merc, I followed a high-level Jugg around and healed him, and until the team wised up and started ganging up on me instead of him, we wrecked a lot of noobs.

Definitely going to give the Shadow a try, though. Sounds challenging in PvE, but I can just spam space combat to make up the levels, I suppose. And I can make items with my Merc and send it to the character, too.

I've also been looking at other forums, and not very many people like the Smuggler classes. I see people using them, but the few I've encountered couldn't face me 1v1. It wasn't even a contest, and they were stunning me as much as they could get away with. Maybe they stand a chance against their counterparts (operatives/snipers are more or less an immobile class), but the ones I've seen at best try to stun you and run behind you. It would probably be more effective if I were a different class, but the Smuggler as I said before still feels underpowered to me. The Sniper might be an immobile class (screwed against Jedi), but if you're fighting another range class from behind cover, you can do a lot of damage.

[MeoTwister5]

So far on my experience with Balance builds is that you can easily fight from both ranged and melee areas. As it is said, the 4-10m range is where they excel, and they can easily inflict damage while they bridge the distance gap, which tends to be the problem with the other two trees. It's a very hybrid class being able to fight at a range, close up and even offtank.

I also just realized that I don't use orange gear much. Is it possible to actually craft gear towards the endgame that actually holds a candle to raid level gear?

[synaesthetic]

Really liked my gunslinger, much more than my meatshield, but the endgame in this game is completely boned, so I quit once the story quests were over for my gunslinger and my guardian.

I really think SWTOR could have been much better if it took more from KOTOR and less from world of borecraft.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Really liked my gunslinger, much more than my meatshield, but the endgame in this game is completely boned, so I quit once the story quests were over for my gunslinger and my guardian.

I really think SWTOR could have been much better if it took more from KOTOR and less from world of borecraft.

That would require a company actually working and thinking though. They all think they can make millions just like Blizzard if they copy.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Xacual

That would require a company actually working and thinking though. They all think they can make millions just like Blizzard if they copy.

Except I don't see any reason someone playing WoW would quit WoW to play a lamer version of WoW with all the Warcraft replaced with Star Wars. Which is probably why SWTOR is hemorrhaging subscriptions like a cat shedding in the summer.

[Xacual]

Umm yeah that's what I said? Companies seem to be under the impression that it will work though, judging by all the terrible wow rip offs that come out.

[synaesthetic]

You'd think they would have learned by now that it just won't work. Only by doing something different will they stand out from the crowd, which is how Guild Wars manages to keep a fairly steady, reasonably large subscriber base.

I also think that the greatest audience for games with a strong social component tend to be going toward the social network/Flash/HTML5 titles more than the MMOs these days, especially given the rise of Zygna and Facebook games as well as mobile games...

Traditional MMOs are in for a rough ride in the near future. Unlike the big blockbuster single-player titles, games with strong social aspects attract quite a few more female players... I know that I am something of an anomaly with my general distaste for multiplayer-centric titles when all of my female friends are logging hours and hours and hours playing Cityville and whatever other crap Zygna has put out recently.

[Jazzrat]

It's because people wants to play a SW oriented MMORPG? nothing wrong with that.
For all the internet hate on WoW, it's still the best MMO that none other have manage to surpass yet.

Without actually active sub numbers, no one can really tell if the game is viable or not. From what i heard, they need 500k sub to break even and currently there's too many servers for the amount of players ingame leading to a lot of ghost towns.

Anyway, WoW took a few years before it became the juggernaut that it is today. If Bioware kept producing contents and refining the gameplay, it might someday achieve the level of success Blizzard enjoyed.

Personally, i didnt like the game but they did manage to get 1.7m (?) sub within a short time which is quite an achievement by itself. Now they just have to retain enough subs to keep EA from pulling the plug prematurely while continue to expand their game.

[synaesthetic]

Like I said I think they would have done better if they pulled more from KOTOR (simplified equipment, less focus on gear-grinding, tokens and whatnot) and made the combat system more like KOTOR (queued actions, mashing the 1 key repeatedly is really a drag) and gave the visuals a bump with a more optimized engine (really, SWTOR looks like crap and it runs like crap even on strong systems) and did the classes a bit differently...

I made a pretty big blog post on my opinions of SWTOR after playing two characters to 50 and engaging in a bit of endgame content. I never ended up posting it, maybe I'll put it here for the lulz.