Is the (English/American) Anime Industry Dying?!

[cyth]

To be honest, those guys can't be trusted with every word they say. Let's not forget how they cushioned the fall of every major anime distributor up to this date. I'm sure people bought DVDs based on their assurance that those companies would live on.

But yes, I want to hear what they have to say. Especially about the economics of streaming.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by cyth

To be honest, those guys can't be trusted with every word they say. Let's not forget how they cushioned the fall of every major anime distributor up to this date. I'm sure people bought DVDs based on their assurance that those companies would live on.

But yes, I want to hear what they have to say. Especially about the economics of streaming.

I've listened to a few ANN Podcasts, although I'll admit I don't follow them regularly.

In a couple of them, Zac and the ANN guys were brutally frank about just how badly the North American anime marketplace bottomed out a few years ago, which is a big part of the reason why I'm inclined to think that the North American section of the anime industry is in very hard shape.

I don't really see what Zac's motivation could be for lying about this stuff (reporting on the North American side of the anime industry/fandom is his bread and butter, it's not good for him if it loses relevancy), so I'm inclined to think he was honestly conveying how badly anime DVDs were selling in North America at the time.

[solomon]

Originally Posted by cyth

To be honest, those guys can't be trusted with every word they say. Let's not forget how they cushioned the fall of every major anime distributor up to this date. I'm sure people bought DVDs based on their assurance that those companies would live on.

But yes, I want to hear what they have to say. Especially about the economics of streaming.

Pretty weak speculation there brother, as if one little old anime site can have that sort of influences, you can't fool the marketplace.

[cyth]

Given that ANN pulls in over 100k visitors daily (per Quantcast stats), which is over 5 times more than this forum pulls in, and that some of their articles add up to over one million views, I'd say it's not that insignificant!

[solomon]

This is vs. like HOW many people would be shifting through looking for anime on the web in general? I still don't buy it.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by solomon

This is vs. like HOW many people would be shifting through looking for anime on the web in general? I still don't buy it.

While there are millions of people looking for anime online, a lot of ANN readers are probably paying customers unlike most people on the net.

[xxanimefan4_ever]

Originally Posted by cyth

Given that ANN pulls in over 100k visitors daily (per Quantcast stats), which is over 5 times more than this forum pulls in, and that some of their articles add up to over one million views, I'd say it's not that insignificant!

i'm sure most of them aren't from america?

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever

i'm sure most of them aren't from america?

...you're kidding me right? Most of the guys on ANN are American.

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

you are such a baka

weeaboo spotted

Originally Posted by Vexx

Maybe you ought to browse Fluff's post history before taking sides for or against his posts <rofl>

my post history is certified grade a entertainment, everyone should read it

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

...you're kidding me right? Most of the guys on ANN are American.

Yes, they are. For the longest time they didn't even have any reporters who could actually read Japanese. Their financing also pretty much exclusively comes from advertising money from the US anime industry, so naturally they're pretty biased, as cyth points out.

[bhl88]

Dan also speaks about this:

Spoiler:

Numerous articles have been written about the depressed state of the North American market in terms of anime and manga from Japan. The situation is so bad, many Japanese publishers and companies question if it is even worth while to attempt to market something to the US. I believe this is going too far, as I remember a time, just 20 years ago, when there was no real market in North America. There were a few titles released in English back then, but they were far and few in between.

But on the ground here in Tokyo, the pessimism is very strong. Many creators, producers and publishers talk about France and China as their best targets for export. France and China are not huge markets in themselves, but Europe’s market has not tanked as badly compared to the US and while its hard to make money out of China with its numerous regulatory barriers and rampant piracy, East Asia overall represents a market that is growing and the prospect of consumers with more disposable income is very good.

[Vexx]

Aye, when your target audience (assume age group 10-30) has seen a massive drop in disposable income thanks to the general economy in the US, then duh???

[speedyexpress48]

To be honest, I doubt that most anime would be a hit anywhere besides East Asia. China may be the biggest potential market right now...even with the mass piracy and regulatory barriers, you can easily squeeze money from the huge population number and anime/manga is way more accepted there than in America.

[Arabesque]

Since it was mentioned in the thread earlier, part 1 of ANN's Anime Economy. I'm glad to see that the writer is Justin Sevakis, since he's one of the few people at ANN that I often look forward to reading what he has to say, and I think that this was a pretty good guide for the uninitiated in the inner workings of the industry. There is a lot of stuff that I think was already common knowledge or sense in here, but there were still a few important clarifications and general estimates that I thought were pretty informative:

... a single anime episode costs about US$100,000-300,000 per episode, according to various producers we've talked to. That might seem like a lot, but in reality it's pretty cheap, about on par with an American deep-cable TV show. (An American prime-time TV show can cost well into the millions.) But multiplied across 13 episodes, that nonetheless turns into a total budget of US$2-4 million.

Initial sales are a good indicator of whether a show will make back the Production Committee's investment, but in truth, most shows take several years to break even. One longtime anime executive estimated that, given enough time, a good 70% of all anime eventually turn a profit. This happens over years of TV reruns, back catalog DVD sales, and re-releases internationally. The process is seldom rewarded quickly.

The hope is that the remaining 30% that will never make back their budgets will get paid for by the successes. This is a gamble, but it's the most essential one of every entertainment industry: a few huge hits that subsidize tons of losers

Part 2 apparently will deal with sales of shows, along with the overseas sales.

Originally Posted by cyth

But yes, I want to hear what they have to say. Especially about the economics of streaming.

Yeah, despite my own issues with the site, I think that it still brings about some pretty valuable info (aside from the encyclopedia) It's one of those reason why I still listen to ANNcast, because there is often a lot of interesting stories to hear about, and it gives a better view into how the (American) Anime Industry got itself into this mess.

I do want them to talk about these issues more openly, including their views and take on the streaming business, but having listened to the show for 2 years already, I think it's pretty unlikely we will get clear cut answers from them.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I've listened to a few ANN Podcasts, although I'll admit I don't follow them regularly.

In a couple of them, Zac and the ANN guys were brutally frank about just how badly the North American anime marketplace bottomed out a few years ago, which is a big part of the reason why I'm inclined to think that the North American section of the anime industry is in very hard shape.

I don't really see what Zac's motivation could be for lying about this stuff (reporting on the North American side of the anime industry/fandom is his bread and butter, it's not good for him if it loses relevancy), so I'm inclined to think he was honestly conveying how badly anime DVDs were selling in North America at the time.

I don't have the most favorable opinion of Zac Bertschy (his run on Answerman and general behavior in moderating discussion on the ANN forums in the past is mainly to blame) and I honestly don't think he was lying as well (if anything, I found him more honest (and likable) than usual during the show than any written answer he had given in the Answerman column, hell he even confessed about his certain ''habits'' when it comes to watching movies, so I don't think he has anything to hide). When I hear him talk about the North American market, he is not only brutal about the state the industry is in right now, but also about how it had reached this point and how much of a mess everything was during the bubble (a string of really bad business decisions, no long term plans, lots of money down the drain etc.) and while he himself never gave any names as far as I can recall, it often fell to Justin (or occasionally the guest) to give the more specific example about how crazy were those days.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

When I hear him talk about the North American market, he is not only brutal about the state the industry is in right now, but also about how it had reached this point and how much of a mess everything was during the bubble (a string of really bad business decisions, no long term plans, lots of money down the drain etc.) and while he himself never gave any names as far as I can recall, it often fell to Justin (or occasionally the guest) to give the more specific example about how crazy were those days.

The two episodes I'd recommend to anyone interested in NA industry's demise would be ANNCast ep. 17 (guest: Geneon USA's representative) and ANNCast ep. 23 (guest: the late Carl Macek). Both guests talked about cashflow and retail problems that solidified Geneon USA's and Streamline Pictures' demise. What's interesting is how history repeats itself even in something as young as the NA anime industry. The correct answer to Streamline Pictures should have been "don't go too big, the market is too small," but I guess the industry only needed one Pokemon success to turn a blind eye to the past.

[xxanimefan4_ever]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

...you're kidding me right? Most of the guys on ANN are American.

ummm stop putting words in my mouth. better yet, up your comprehension skills somehow. i was referring to the 100k visitors. I don't know who the people are on ANN nor do i care.

[TigerII]

Originally Posted by cyth

Given that ANN pulls in over 100k visitors daily (per Quantcast stats), which is over 5 times more than this forum pulls in, and that some of their articles add up to over one million views, I'd say it's not that insignificant!

Out of the total world population tells me that it is a dying industry. As said before, it is already niche in Japan, of course it wouldn't be large world wide(I say world because much of it watches the English version out of North America). Honestly this doesn't bother me much. Besides, no American voices means the US government ignores fansubbing, and sites continue to exist.....

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever

ummm stop putting words in my mouth. better yet, up your comprehension skills somehow. i was referring to the 100k visitors. I don't know who the people are on ANN nor do i care.

I said the majority of visitors are from America. Small majority probably, but I'm sure it is a majority, based on the locations of the users.

...what, you expect tons of German and French anime fans to go read an English site that is from the perspective of Americans?

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

I said the majority of visitors are from America. Small majority probably, but I'm sure it is a majority, based on the locations of the users.

...what, you expect tons of German and French anime fans to go read an English site that is from the perspective of Americans?

Why shouldn't they? They're anime fans, after all. And ANN is still a good source for anime-related news.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

Why shouldn't they? They're anime fans, after all. And ANN is still a good source for anime-related news.

They can't read english?
Can't speak for Germany but I doubt the majority of French fans speak english well enough to visit ANN

[Dhomochevsky]

Yes, the majority here is watching only German dubbed anime, so basicly what's on TV (Naruto etc) and series that came out at least 5 years ago.
Makes finding anyone who follows the international scene very hard. Even on the few conventions I ever went to...
Hence why I'm on this board and not say a German one. You guys are cool.