2013-01-23, 03:17 | Link #23382 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Was there any harm in trying it before involving civilians? Remember they had plenty of preparation time from the moment they fished him out of the water.
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2013-01-23, 03:29 | Link #23383 | |
オンドリャァァァ!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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She is not someone you can defeat without enough planning and resources. And unlike Fiamma who made himself a obvious target for everyone, Othinus in the dark. Othinus still waited until the end of Baggage City arc to show herself despite Touma intervened as already back in Hawaii. So yeah, let's prepare, and Othinus will certainly take time to make Hawaii burn, and find herself a replacement for Baggage City. And even they do beat Othinus, that doesn't mean the damage caused by the other members will be undone. And without Levinia pitting Touma and everyone against Gremlin, Othinus's underlings will be bale to do far far more damage. Remeber, Touma's argument is about saving people. Then reducing casualties is the top priority, not just defeating Othinus. Especially when not all members works directly under Othinus's surveillance. |
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2013-01-23, 03:42 | Link #23384 | |
The Obsever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Classified
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Leivinia is trying to tell him about The Invisible Thing in this statement right?
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Last edited by OverNOut; 2013-01-23 at 03:52. |
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2013-01-23, 03:42 | Link #23385 |
オンドリャァァァ!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Another thing I forgot to mention.
Touma gave himself too much credit. He really think Othinus will put him as her top priority? When Othinus showed up in Baggage City, her top priority is actually in disposing Dainslaf, that Marian had been using against her order, not because Othinus eagerly wants to confront the IB. In other word, to Othinus, IB is even less of a threat than the Dainslaf. |
2013-01-23, 03:49 | Link #23386 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2013-01-23, 03:50 | Link #23387 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
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She's comparing him to Aleister, Laura (probably, I can't say for sure), and something else that I didn't quite get. Probably in how driven they are by their own ideals. |
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2013-01-23, 03:58 | Link #23389 | ||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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I have a feeling we're going about this the wrong way- Quote:
And that is the main point of it all- He couldn't accept her using her own method that involved thousands of people without exploring all other options first, Anything and Everything till there is no other options left. Quote:
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2013-01-23, 04:03 | Link #23390 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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In any case, Touma has no particular problem with her logic, he just said that society needs a necessary amount of evil to run after all. What he has a problem with is Birdway looking down on people and sacrificing them like chess pieces. He only brought up himself as an example because he's related to the incident, he's not a martyr.
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2013-01-23, 04:24 | Link #23391 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Spain
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Awesome gambit by Birdway with her flintlock right there and even more awesome counter-speech by Touma.
As others have said some are missinterpreting what Touma said. He's not saying Birdway is evil or completely in the wrong, he's saying than there was an option of using him as bait with rumors that may have worked and would have prevented thousands of people in being involved in Gremlin's plans. He berates Birdway for not talking to him and trying to seek other options. He doesn't say using logic to save people is wrong, he says that without emotion logically there is no reason to save people when in the end they'll die anyway. And yeah, Othinus came out in Baggage City to destroy Dainsleaf but also to see what was inside Touma's right arm and then kill him to try to move Imagine Breaker to another, less troublesome host, as Ollerus and Fiamma said. Why would she come out only to destroy Dainsleif when Touma was already going to do so? Touma is not a death seeker, he clearly doesn't believe in it (as he told Fraulein in this volume and Mikoto in the sisters arc). He makes the point that normal people will want to save someone if they can and he has power to do it, so, why shouldn't he? From the start of the series Touma has been a person who helps everyone, friends, strangers and even former villains if he can. He doesn't need a reason to save someone. |
2013-01-23, 04:28 | Link #23392 |
the pragma
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well i have a though regarding of touma....., honestly..., i dont think his way of though is too like "i am a messiah therefore sacrifice me instead" logic..., truthfully he is insane but his logic isn't disgusting or broken....he just suggest some option to birdway to solve a problem..., he just want to get involved with "plan" which birdway made..., he just angry that birdway just sacrifice a bigger risk and victim which will make birdway became e new villain than use some "uncertain" option with some efficiency with minimal victim..., he know the risk and know he is a naive....., he know the reason behind birdway action and didn't look down her ideal....He isn't complete ignorant like "justice solve everything" bastard that shirou believe it...., he just offer some option that take minimal risk ..., his thought is pretty logical but still ideal in same time
and to solve some problem....man need to be insane first
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2013-01-23, 05:17 | Link #23393 | ||
オンドリャァァァ!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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So he say he knows the risk, so he say he is naive... and he still guilt trip Birdway on top of that? I guess things like this happens when you skip logic, right? What Birdway did is certainly immoral, but what Touma suggested is something far more irresponsible. And in the end, he is angry NOT because Birdway didn't provide the best solution, but he is angry because Birdway didn't offer a solution that make him feels good about it. He become fixated on demanding a response from Birdway that can satisfy him that he has completely forgotten his original point on saving people. Trying all other options first? Do you know Gremlin's operation already started? That progress has already been made at Hawaii? You are asking for other options when immediate counter measure is necessary? Birdway's manipulation of events in Hawaii actually reduced the casualty by bringing someone there to stop Gremlin. Really, compare to two cities getting burned up, it is a pretty good trade from the entire US caught in a coup d'état and becoming a theocracy controlled by vengeful magicians. Really, usually I am pretty fine with Touma's rant in general. But he really cross the line this time. Blaming the lack of your personal satisfaction onto a girl. This is just wrong. Especially he understands there are casualties either way, and base on his own ideology, he is in no moral high point to blame anyone as he can't save everyone either. Quote:
I mean, I can ask the same type of question in: why hadn't she waited until Touma had destroyed the sword, instead of arriving there first to destroy the sword in person? Or I can say, she can come in anytime during the entire Baggage City arc, but what motivated Othinus to finally do something is Marian going nuts. I won't say she has absolutely no concern over IB, but it certainly is not something that is high on her priority list. |
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2013-01-23, 06:47 | Link #23395 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 34
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2013-01-23, 06:59 | Link #23396 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Spain
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And to your question of why she didn't wait until after Touma destroyed Dainsleif to attack him I'm as clueless as you are, and the answer is probably rule of cool, it'd be much more threatening for her to appear out of nowhere and crush Touma's hand as he reaches for the sword than simply just appearing in front of him afterwards thanking him for doing her work and pwning him. Truthfully, I think both options would have worked well, only Kamachi knows why she acted like that. |
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2013-01-23, 07:01 | Link #23397 | |||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Just because he is wrong, doesn't mean she is right either. Quote:
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If they had stop them at Hawaii and not let them jump into Europe they would have plenty of time. Hell the whole time from NT2 to NT5 was a period of several days and that was with allowing Gremlin to progress.
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Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-01-23 at 08:38. |
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2013-01-23, 07:06 | Link #23398 | ||
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
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2013-01-23, 07:12 | Link #23399 | ||
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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2013-01-23, 07:41 | Link #23400 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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There's a reason they have magical names...
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Tags |
action, dengeki bunko, fantasy, light novels, science fiction, shounen |
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