2010-04-23, 14:12 | Link #8781 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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And I agree this interview hasn't confirmed anything. It's basically the same reused metaphors that he's written in the story over and over. There would also be no point in saying this if that was his intention. Quote:
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2010-04-23, 14:13 | Link #8782 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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It appears shkanon won't be "confirmed" even after EP7, that seems to be what Ryuukishi has in mind.
He won't give a definitive answer anyway. We'd better be prepared for that. Quote:
If he manages to get outside it unscated he will prove to be a genius If not... he will disappoint a lot of readers... Quote:
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2010-04-23, 14:17 | Link #8783 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
If anybody wants to borrow my theory in the episode 6 thread about Kanon being "Kinzo Jr." born from Kinzo's Mistress Beatrice. Be my guest. Maybe you can explain the "recognizing a living Kinzo thing" without it being a title that way.
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2010-04-23, 14:19 | Link #8784 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2010-04-23, 14:21 | Link #8785 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
He definitely won't go into the closed rooms, though, which pretty much confirms my earlier suspicion that not even he knows how any of them work. He's never going to sell another game and will go down in history as the biggest joke in the mystery genre. That's how bad it will be. What especially bothers me is that he's dropping answers this early. In normal mysteries, you hide everything until the last chapter, which is usually devoted to the detective explaining everything while the readers gape in awe and slap their foreheads, exasperated at their own stupidity. This time I feel I'll be slapping my forehead in exasperation at the author's stupidity. In normal mysteries, I'd be more suspicious of tiny hints and off-hand comments. (Go read Ordeal By Innocence, for example. The culprit isn't very interesting but it's a great exercise in understanding how mystery authors hide clues in plain sight.) But this is Ryukishi, who doesn't know how to be subtle, apparently. |
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2010-04-23, 14:34 | Link #8786 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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One thing I didn't expect though. Ryu hasn't suggested anything about a new detective in episode 7. So maybe Battler really is going to be the detective again. It'd be easier to end the game that way.
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2010-04-23, 14:35 | Link #8787 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yeah I missed that post but let's be serious, most of those points are just holes that you can use to place a Kinzo-Kanon theory, but not a hint of that. some of them are incredibly long shots. Plus there's one point that is flat out wrong:
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2010-04-23, 14:35 | Link #8788 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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If not for Ep6, everything hinting towards Shkanon would be "points that are just holes to place the theory". |
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2010-04-23, 14:37 | Link #8789 | |||
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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And I wouldn't write a mystery story without knowing the answers first (or at least not publish it before that). Unless Ryukishi really plans to play that way. At least he can set the atmosphere |
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2010-04-23, 14:37 | Link #8790 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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You think he's going to have her be in a doll coma like Beatrice due to the shackle rule so we can sympathize with her?
I don't think she's going to be a detective again after the whole throwing it away to be a murderer thing.
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2010-04-23, 14:43 | Link #8791 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
But let's change subject for a while, I admit I don't really have much will to discuss shkanon theory again so I'll just stop here for now. Let's analyze this: Quote:
- First off we have a confirmation that the dock not being there is something related to the incident and not something explainable with decay after all that time. As usual Ryukishi seems to think things are obvious when they are not. - Second he talks about something happened that changed the terrain. So at this point there shouldn't really be any doubt that this is a large scale disaster. Think about the distance between the Mansion and the dock, it's huge! A simple boiler room explosion just doesn't work. Chronotrig's idea of a boiler room that triggers a landslide might work. However in this case the relevant incident is the landslide because it's certainly of a larger scale than the boiler explosion, which would just become the trigger. Bombs could also be a trigger, but they are a lot harder to be explainable as an accident. then there's still the volcano related theories. Any other idea of such a large scale disaster? I hope it's not a meteorite XD
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-04-23 at 14:53. |
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2010-04-23, 14:48 | Link #8792 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Actually, I should bring that up, too. Although mysteries are indeed supposed to be a game between the author and reader, they're a game with a time limit: the end of the book. The reason the riddles are always unraveled in the end and the culprit revealed is so that everyone who reads the mystery can enjoy it in their own way: The really smart or intuitive people can revel in the idea that they were right all along, and the people who just read it to be trolled can, well, be trolled. What Ryukishi is doing by not directly revealing the identity of the culprit and how the puzzles were constructed is making Umineko unenjoyable for those people who just want to read it for trolling/the story. I don't think this is fair at all. Quote:
If you don't do this, you're not writing a mystery, you're writing a farce. Quote:
Ah, yeah, I see where you're coming from now. |
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2010-04-23, 14:50 | Link #8793 | |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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You write it as a huge trap directed at the readers so that the reveal will be more interesting. The entire episode "hints" at Shkanon. But that doesn't mean it's true. It's possible Ryukishi planned this trap from the very beginning. Two characters who look alike, and are never seen together at the same time by a reliable source. That sounds really suspicious right from the start. Isn't that the definition of a red herring? As long as it has a 0.00000001% chance of being wrong, then a miracle can occur and Shkanon won't be true. |
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2010-04-23, 14:53 | Link #8794 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
The points you've outlined assumes that the author is, in fact, a person who knows how to write a proper mystery and understands that hints are supposed to be subtle and red herrings obvious, and not the other way around. If Ryukishi is NOT this kind of person, then your argument is invalid. Additionally, I just really think it's telling that in the interview he practically tells us that YES, I GAVE AWAY A MAJOR ANSWER IN EP6, I WONDER WHAT IT IS, OOOOOOO. |
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2010-04-23, 15:02 | Link #8797 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
Nothing he said specifically points to anything about Shannon or Kanon. The only characters he specifically talks about are Zepar and Furfur. Also Maria has been called "the key" several times. She's the only character I've seen who bears that title. And the key could defintely be who or what she meets in every episode. has anybody ever guessed that right? Neither you nor I have read episode 6 yet. I'm using the time while it's translated to reread 1-4 because according to Ryukishi that's where most of the important hints are.
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2010-04-23, 15:03 | Link #8798 | |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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Well he's reputable at trolling after all. And speaking of trolls...
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EDIT: Well I haven't read EP6, so I don't have too much ground to speculate about the true nature of Zepar and Furfur. But I have a feeling Maria is still important, her part can't be over with just Episode 4. |
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2010-04-23, 15:07 | Link #8799 |
Senior Member
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I seriously doubt that the burned corpse in Ep 4 could be Kanon's. Kanon is much smaller than Battler.
In Episode 4, Battler doesn't explicitly state he pulled the body out of the furnace, but he did examine it closely enough to determine that it had six toes on each foot. I have trouble imagining Battler examining Kanon's corpse and failing to identify it by size alone.
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2010-04-23, 15:10 | Link #8800 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
I think Shannon is an inch taller than Kanon in the anime. Should that be proof they can't share the same corpse?
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