Macross Frontier - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[kilroy0097]

^^^
While that's a nice theory. Leon was talking to Grace via a wireless.
Oh and comparing a fictional future where there are spaceships, mecha transforming and colony ships going light years away from earth and have fold capabilities and entire cities in them, with the present day, is a bit daft. At least technology wise.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

There's a couple of problems with that. First off, when they were in Leon's office, and he had them at gunpoint, they would have been frisked for weapons and cellphones. Secondly, by the time they make it out of Leon's office, take a look at Frontier. The airwaves are going to be in disarray with all the chaos - it'd be impossible to get a signal out. Don't believe me?

7 years ago, on September 11th, all cellphones in New York were down. This was due to infrastructure damage and panicking callers jamming the airwaves.

And that was just one building. Here, it's the whole damn city that's gotten fucked.

Let's not forget that the Vajra emit ECM, which, while it may have been countered by the development LAI, SMS and NUNS have put into ECCM, is of the stuff that cannot be countered by civillian-level cellphones. ANY ECM shits over cellphones.

I didn't say the cellphone had to have actually worked. Just that they made the apparent effort to make the call. Hence holding it to their ear possibly with a look of frustration. As for not having a Cellphone, rob a store, raid a shelter, pick one up off a dead guy. Anything besides running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Of course this completely ignores the fact they should have told someone before confronting Leon. It amazes me that they left pretty much everyone they could trust (Bobby) completely out of the loop.

[Doan]

I agree compleetly with Wesley84. And not only that, they manage to overwhelm the armed guard and instead of takeing their weapons and capturing Leon and his companions, they just run away. I felt like watching "Scream".

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Doan

I agree compleetly with Wesley84. And not only that, they manage to overwhelm the armed guard and instead of takeing their weapons and capturing Leon and his companions, they just run away. I felt like watching "Scream".

No use, Leon's reinforcements were coming. Overwhelming some armed guards was one thing, dealing with another dozen or so with automatic weapons is another.

Leon, most especially Kathy, would know this very well.

- Tak

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Doan

I agree compleetly with Wesley84. And not only that, they manage to overwhelm the armed guard and instead of takeing their weapons and capturing Leon and his companions, they just run away. I felt like watching "Scream".

I didn't really fault them for running away. They were lucky enough to escape as it is.

[Doan]

there was enouth time to shoot Leon in the head and still run away.
well i wont complain, its just an anime after all...

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

^^^
While that's a nice theory. Leon was talking to Grace via a wireless.
Oh and comparing a fictional future where there are spaceships, mecha transforming and colony ships going light years away from earth and have fold capabilities and entire cities in them, with the present day, is a bit daft. At least technology wise.

Let's also not forget that that same wireless link has been used where Vajra were present and emitting ECM, which is proof that Grace has a means of bypassing the Vajra ECM.

The same thing is seen in present-day military communications: the USAF and US Navy have a special communications system for fighters that works even through heavy jamming, but even the slightest jamming will disrupt a cellphone signal. In fact assuming that just because it's 50 years into the future that cellphones will be uber un-jammable is ridiculous; if military grade communications were already being fucked up by the Vajra in ep 1, despite ECCM, then of course cellphones are going to get screwed.

Originally Posted by Doan

there was enouth time to shoot Leon in the head and still run away.
well i wont complain, its just an anime after all...

Explain how they're going to shoot Leon in the head when their guns are taken away from them. The time they spend grabbing a gun to kill Leon is time those 4 guys have to get to their feet and shoot them. I remember reading Michael Yon's blog; in one post, "Gates of Fire," he details how a US Army officer was shot 3 times, breaking bones: in great, great pain, that Lt. Colonel rolled forward in a combat roll, came up, and returned fire one-handed with his M4A1. This was a guy who'd been shot and wounded badly. Now those 4 dudes are only slightly bruised. They're going to be much, much more on the ball than that poor Lt. Colonel.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Doan

there was enouth time to shoot Leon in the head and still run away.
well i wont complain, its just an anime after all...

The irony from your statement "just an anime" is you'd expect some hotshot move like shooting a guy between the eyes to happen in an anime, instead of simply and smartly making a break for it as you might expect to happen in real life.

[Doan]

when they're able to overwhelm 3 guys, who are pointing MGs on their backs, then they should also be able to take their weapons. and how come the soldiers just say "wait" instead of getting back up and pursuing them? +read the below

@Wild Goose: Plz tell me where in the scene you see them take away Ozmas weapon?
I couldn't manage to find it, did you? And don't tell me he hadn't one with him, he's an SMS Member and has alway his gun with him. Even Alto had one with him in the School.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Doan

when they're able to overwhelm 3 guys, who are pointing MGs on their backs, then they should also be able to take their weapons. and how come the soldiers just say "wait" instead of getting back up and pursuing them? +read the below

Surprise only works for like a couple seconds, and they had bigger fish to fry than Leon at that moment.

(Naturally, the entire Leon/Grace subplot sucks balls, but credit where credit is due you know?)

@Wild Goose: Plz tell me where in the scene you see them take away Ozmas weapon?
I couldn't manage to find it, did you? And don't tell me he hadn't one with him, he's an SMS Member and has alway his gun with him. Even Alto had one with him in the School.

And to meet Ranka. Or on the movie set. He's a regular action star.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Doan

when they're able to overwhelm 3 guys, who are pointing MGs on their backs, then they should also be able to take their weapons. and how come the soldiers just say "wait" instead of getting back up and pursuing them? +read the below

@Wild Goose: Plz tell me where in the scene you see them take away Ozmas weapon?
I couldn't manage to find it, did you? And don't tell me he hadn't one with him, he's an SMS Member and has alway his gun with him. Even Alto had one with him in the School.

First off, it's standard procedure to frisk people and remove their guns when you're holding them at gunpoint; it's a very quick process. One guy frisks the prisoner while his buddy covers him. Secondly, we do not see Ozma's gun again; if he had his gun with him he would have drawn it as he ran to Battle Frontier with Cathy, which tends to imply that it was taken from him offscreen.

Also, get your terminology right if you want to pretend to be knowledgable on this, Doan. Those troops were carrying assault rifles, not machine guns. Actually if the outside troops had some guys with LMGs, or even some vehicle-mounted GPMGs or HMGs (Browning .50 cal fuck yes) things may have gone a bit better for them against the Vajra, since MGs of all classes have higher stopping power compared to assault rifles and carbines. Machine guns are too unwieldy and bulky in a CQB situation, which is why special forces and SWAT units and armies trained for urban warfare lean more to carbines and SMGs and less on assault rifles and machine guns.

[Wesley84]

Something like the tanks from the first episode would have helped alot filling in the gap between forty ton mecha and your basic infantryman.

[Wild Goose]

Those aren't even tanks, those are the IFVs with turrets and tank guns. (And are apparently an evolution of the Stryker Mobile Gun System currently being fielded by the US Army). And I'm not sure how useful they'll be, since, remember, their guns did jack shit to the red that showed up.

Besides, for the kind of mass Vajra stage 2s that were around, tank guns aren't the answer. You need MGs. Lots and lots of MGs. Especially the Holy MG of the Just and the Righteous, providing solutions .50 of an inch at a time.

Also, IFVs have jack shit for protection. Your basic IFV is designed to protect against infantry weapons since it's an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, a more mobile APC, really. Dedicated antitank weapons will eat IFVs for breakfast. Though the styker is pretty good against IFVs... there was one Stryker, the General Lee, that took a massive IED hit in Iraq and was sent flying. Like its namesake, General Lee landed on all wheels, and while it was badly beat up, managed to survive and keep its crew alive. General Lee was sent back to General Dynamics for a full rebuild and is now the only Stryker whose name is now official and set in stone.

[Proto]

WOW, why can't they do episodes like this all the time? Excellent story development Moreover, something rare for this series, excellent character development and interactions on all areas, main,side, secondary characters. Everything shined brilliantly during this episode. Now if every mecha series had the same level as this episode the genre would skyrocket through my favorite list. Sadly, that's not the case, but still, this episode shines alone, brilliantly. Let's hope the next episodes can make honor to this one.

[monir]

Hopefully I'll be able to finish this post before anyone else....

Folks, give Proto some space. His opinions are very fresh considering he is posting his thoughts right after watching an episode. I personally think his opinions carry more weight than those of us who had the Macross story sunk in for all intent and purpose.

[Tak]

Don't worry about me, I am just practicing my singing voice and being ready for the inevitable.

- Tak

[Proto]

Haha, I'll be looking forward to it.

[BetoJR]

I, for one, am just messing with him you. Darn, you people post way too fast...

Also, I'm digging his fresh take, myself.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

I, for one, am just messing with him you. Darn, you people post way too fast...

Also, I'm digging his fresh take, myself.

So am I because he's actually letting the plot sink in, rather than the shipping