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View Poll Results: Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 56 | 43.75% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 41 | 32.03% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 17.19% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 3.91% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.78% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 3 | 2.34% | |
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-06-04, 04:11 | Link #342 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Arguably, couldn't we say the same for the Gargantia fleet? Your last criteria, is arguable-- whether or not they display intelligence will be seen in coming episodes. |
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2013-06-04, 04:18 | Link #343 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Sounds like you'd be right at home with the GA. Governments are held accountable to the people. It's the duty of the individual to challenge laws which are arbitrary, unjust, and/or are unrepresentative of the population. "Prepare for retaliation?" Sounds like you don't have a good grasp of civil liberties or that of history my friend. As Ledo is quickly finding out, he's been living in a bubble and spoon fed propaganda his entire life. If your entire concept of morality and right and wrong is based on what authoritative figures have arbitrarily decided for you, then I truly pity you. |
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2013-06-04, 05:23 | Link #344 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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I wholeheartedly ascribe to the notion that Urobuchi is condemning both Evolvers and the C.U. equally - it's the way he works. But the only thing we really can say for sure that separates the Hideauze and the G.A. - and their Terran descendants - is that we've seen the G.A./humans attack unprovoked, and we know they pre-emptively murder their own young.
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2013-06-04, 06:11 | Link #345 |
~Omedetô~
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
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Chamber is so overcheat , wonder if Evolvers are so cheat like him. Ledo should have told him about the classified restriction earlier...
Anyway , this episode show once again how Humans are so stubborn & are their own enemies... And fuck u Chamber for Elaine T_T |
2013-06-04, 07:07 | Link #346 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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The Gargantians would have never left the carcass of a whalesquid untouched near they nursery for years. Quote:
I said that you have the right to protest and to advocate the necessity to change the law. That's how you should do it, if you want to keep it peaceful. Simply ignoring the law doesn't change a damn thing and it can only lead to conflict. "Prepare for retaliation" doesn't mean "submit". If you go directly against the law, you'd better be prepared to fight. And to expect that any government will not act against repeated infractions, you'd need to live in a dream. And honestly can you really respect a government that doesn't enforce its own laws?
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2013-06-04, 07:08 | Link #347 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Anyway humanity...just what is it really. Would you lose your humanity or lose your true nature? I know which is far more significant for one. You are still you even if your form is different as long as the core of your being is still there. Quote:
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2013-06-04 at 07:18. |
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2013-06-04, 07:49 | Link #348 | |
maybenotimome
Join Date: Feb 2011
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but i'm thinking there is some confusion on it the whalesquids aren't human, and weren't humans, what the record showed was that the whalesquids were the symbionts which were used to merge with humans to generate hideazue so the squids (whalesquids) were never human, so they couldn't lose their humanity to start with in that the whalesquids are only genetically modified squids (maybe with something human to make the merge easier, but are more squids than humans) whalesquid + human = hideazue whalesquid =/= hideazue an other thing instead are the hideazue, or humans merged with whalesquids, like elanie looked like to be in the records it got showed a leader of the evolvers having a speech while in hideazue form, so back then the evolvers could still communicate in an human language but there is no info if the current hideazue ever tried to communicate with the GA, to form some kind of truce and the merged humans still on the earth (assuming elanie wasn't the only one) never tried to communicate with the surface humans the doubt is then if they didn't for some reason, or because they lost the ability to communicate with humans it's also possible the hideazue which ledo had a fight in the first episode were just modified whalesquids, with no human in them, and the evolvers with merged humans were back in their nest to give orders to the soldier-whalesquids |
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2013-06-04, 08:09 | Link #349 |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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It's also possible that few Hideauze (Evolvers) that stayed on Earth is co-existing with their brethern, the whalesquids (symbiotes).
The girl that got squashed could be an Evolver while all the squids up to the point were whalesquids. I could see Evolvers being pack leaders of whalesquids.
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2013-06-04, 08:11 | Link #350 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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There's a bit of confusion about that and it isn't really clear in this episode.
I generally agree with what zeando said, but I'm not quite sure that the whalesquids are simply simbionts or that they don't have any human dna in them. In the recovered footage we see some sort of whalesquids with a clearly different morphology. Some of them look like crossbred with dogs and other animals. Considering that the whalesquids have some distinctive human features which are even more marked when they are younger, I'd say that the chances that they posses human DNA is very high. That being said in my opinion it's not really relevant how much human DNA they have, what matters is if they have a human mind or not, and neither the whalesquids nor the nautilus Hideauze (which are shown to be closely related) displayed any kind of behavior that would suggest so. Quote:
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2013-06-04, 08:33 | Link #352 |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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For people who know StarCraft:
Hideazue = Zerg GA = Protoss Gargantians = Terrans before spaceflight It all makes sense now and while I am at it: Pirate Queen = Ancestor of Arturus Mengsk Chamber = Ancestor or Sarah Kerrigan Ledo = Ancestor of Jim Raynor
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2013-06-04, 08:35 | Link #353 | |
Highly irregular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 41
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1. The whalesquid eggs have human-esque embryos 2. the squidling Chamber killed looked humanoid. Thew whole point of the episode was to show that the whalesquid/hideauze were once human; otherwise, there would be no reason for Ledo to cry in anguish when Chamber killed that squidling. I don't think it makes sense to confuse the issue that some were part human and some weren't; there is no indication to indicate that at all. There is more evidence, however, to say they all had human ancestory; why would Ledo feel guilty otherwise? |
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2013-06-04, 08:45 | Link #354 | |
Basileus Basileōn
Join Date: Jan 2011
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It's quite clear from the videos that actual testing of human subjects was only conducted for a limited amount of time, most likely not even a decade before the same procedures were conducted on a wider population--since Elaine was still a small child when she got turned into one. ONe might argue that changing the appearance wouldn't affect their intelligence and behaviour, but that's dead wrong. Changing your genes WILL affect your behaviour. Afterall, how you behave is influenced by both your experience and your genes. Adding a 'symbiont' most definitely doesn't help. The scientists are forgetting that the symbiont is also an separate organism. It's going to evolve in such a way that's most beneficial to itself. Evolving in the favor of their symbiont isn't their first priority. It's likely the symbionts could evolve to become something that dominates 'human' they are supposed to be symbionts with.It's blatant reckless that they believe they could tame easily tame another organism like how eukaryotes incorporated cyanobacteria and purple bacteria--even if they engineered the symbiont. BUt of course, my reasoning is only based on current principles of biological science, they have found a way to pinpoint the functions of every single gene and manipulate it with precision. Last edited by Avrorrange; 2013-06-04 at 09:19. |
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2013-06-04, 09:37 | Link #355 | |
Shinigami
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The whalesquids resemble the symbiotes more than the merged Hideaze IMO, but we don't know that for sure. The one killed at the end of the ep could be a juvenile or it could be a human merged. However, if it was really a human merged Hideaze, I would think it'd be smarter than to just waltz into the area where all its brethren had been destroyed .. Ledo has been killing human Hideaze for a long time, so even if the recent ones were just symbiotes he still has a heavy load of shock to deal with. |
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2013-06-04, 10:20 | Link #356 | |
Highly irregular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 41
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The most damning evidence that these have human ancestory ie descendents of human/symbionts are the larvae: Squiddy outside, human-esque center They look so human that Ledo had to ask if these were truly Hideauze children. Having the whalesquid be just the symbionts 1. Has not been hinted at all 2. confuses the overall message of the episode: Ledo and the GA has been killing humans this whole time. There is more evidence that they were human than that they are just symbionts |
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2013-06-04, 10:32 | Link #357 | ||
Senior and Demented
Join Date: May 2006
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Gargatian's are salvaging and repurposing but in a state of slow and inevitable decline. We even spend time in the story exploring Ledo and Chamber's initial assessment. From the GA's perspective Gargatians are savages with no "organization"... effectively they've reverted to animal form. Hmm... sound familiar? Squid haters have no basis for assuming that space squid colonies are any less sentient or civilized than the 'devolved' GA. Frankly I consider the GA to have made the ultimate devil's bargain - they've kept the exterior shape of what it means to be human and given up everything that actually defines human ideals. Perhaps space squids have lost their humanity as well (it *is* Gen after all) but to jump to that conclusion simply because they are hideous is falling into the very same irrational fear of the 'other' that justifies all wars.
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2013-06-04, 10:38 | Link #359 | |
Senior Member
Author
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We see no such evidence with the Earth Hideauze. They do not appear to have built, salvaged, or repurposed much of anything. So there is legitimate reason to doubt that the Earth Hideauze are sapient. In other words, there is legitimate reason to doubt that they enjoy human level intelligence. The Space Hideauze could well be a different matter. Chamber noted some differences between the Space Hideauze and the Earth Hideauze. But while you take issue with "squid haters", the fact is we have no proof that the Space Hideauze are sapient or enjoy human level-intelligence. So those who insist that the Space Hideauze are sapient and have human-level intelligence have no more basis for that insistence than those who insist the contrary. Its a completely open question at this point.
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