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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 63 52.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 30.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 10.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 5.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-26, 14:03   Link #81
hai_san
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IF we go by favorite characters my list would be:

1. Ami
2. Ryuji
3.Taiga
4.Minorin

and Kitamura well whatever i dont really feel he is a "main" character , simply a sidekick ... even the President gave me more impression than him yet...
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Old 2008-12-26, 14:27   Link #82
maxpepper
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Taiga dressed up like a Victoria's Secret Model was cute... as for her "trick"... well I guess I would call it awkwardly amusing.

Wasn't the winner of the race supposed to crown and get the dance with Taiga?? Kitamura you messed it up! damn you, damn you to hell!

Spoiler for light novel:
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Old 2008-12-26, 15:06   Link #83
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Um, I don't think Kitamura was actually asking Taiga to dance with HIM...

The way he described dancing, as "holding hands and moving in a circle until we get tired" refers more to the dance everyone was doing together at the end, if you ask me.

So, the way I read it, he was just asking her to join in on the group dance instead. Especially since we never see the two of them actually dancing...


Eh, maybe I'm wrong, whatever.
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Old 2008-12-26, 17:26   Link #84
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I really dont want to believe Kitamura is playing with Taiga's heart because thats just F*&^% up. But it looks Taiga is starting to out grow Kitamura. If that guy is playing around with Taiga i tell you i am going to RAGE.
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Old 2008-12-26, 22:03   Link #85
-Sho-
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I knew Taiga's father is a bastard , he really don't care ..
Wow good episode ! Taiga was cute ^^ Ryuji and Minorin race was fun too
Ahah Minorin "Am I a lesbian" ! And Ryuji was scared and responded NO ahah
I think kitamura still have feelings for Taiga .
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Old 2008-12-26, 22:31   Link #86
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No, I really don't think that's what the author was going for. The way a lot of viewers seem to take it, Kitamura's almost a villain but I never got that that was how he was supposed to be perceived. He's supposed to be a caring but oblivious person IMO.
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Old 2008-12-26, 22:44   Link #87
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Kitamura never have any ill intent towards Taiga or the rest. I don't know how the heck people can come up with such conclusion and start hating him as a villain. It puzzles me a lot.

He just wanted to dance to celebrate end of the school festival. That's it.
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Old 2008-12-27, 01:51   Link #88
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Good episode. Some moments felt predictable. I still have developed zero attachment to the Ami character. But I like where Ryuuji/Taiga + Minorin is going.
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Old 2008-12-27, 02:32   Link #89
wistfulloner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Um, I don't think Kitamura was actually asking Taiga to dance with HIM...

The way he described dancing, as "holding hands and moving in a circle until we get tired" refers more to the dance everyone was doing together at the end, if you ask me.

So, the way I read it, he was just asking her to join in on the group dance instead. Especially since we never see the two of them actually dancing...


Eh, maybe I'm wrong, whatever.
Kitamura is almost definitely asking Taiga for a one-on-one dance.

Exhibit 1:
Kitamura says that he would not be allowed a dance because he isn't Mr. Lucky Guy. Anyone can dance with anyone in a group dance.

Exhibit 2:
Taiga wonders why Kitamura doesn't like her but is still asking her for a dance. That won't happen in a group dance.

Exhibit 3:
Kitamura tells everyone to come together for a dance after he asked Taiga for a duo.

But hell, Kitamura's behaviour towards Taiga has been a mix bag since Ep2. I'm sure that he just wants to have fun after the festival and asked for said dance with Taiga.

Raise your hands, anyone who wouldn't want to dance with a hella cute little girl in an angel's dress
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Old 2008-12-27, 03:58   Link #90
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I think people in this show have a general fear of hurting people's feelings. Which explains Minori's attitude towards Ryuuji as well as Kitamura's towards Taiga.
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Old 2008-12-27, 07:01   Link #91
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stormy001_M1A2, there is a saying "The road to hell is build of good wills."

No one is saying that Kitamura is a villain, but his 'niceness' is potentially more harming than any bad deed by the villain. He is acting nice and sending her mixed signals letting her build up her hope again when he doesnt really want anything to do with a girl. The way he is acting is cruel, even though unintentionally. He should make it clear that they are just friends and establish on that, instead he keeps sending mixed signals to Taiga allowing her to build hope. The only hope is that Taiga will be mature enough to actually break away from such idiot, otherwise she would end up hurting a lot.

I really think Kitamura deserves a good beating.
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Old 2008-12-27, 07:15   Link #92
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So you're saying Kitamura deserves a beating because he is unwittingly crushing Taiga's heart?
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Old 2008-12-27, 07:25   Link #93
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Yes. Because such nice guys end up hurting poeple the most. You have to know when to be nice and when not. You acn say that it is not his fault, but he is a free person and responsible for his actions. If he is too dumb to figure out that his niceness can hurt poeple then it is his fault. School Days show where the niceness to everyone can bring in worst case scenario. of course the lead there was more self-centered bastard than Kitamura but it has the similarities.

'Everyone's friend is friend to no one.'

He should make his choices and make it clear, instead he keeps on sending mixed signals. Such good guys may be dumb nice guys but if they hurt anyone they still hurt, despite them having an innocent Bambi eyes.

Unless you are saying that Kitamura is so dumb that he is not responsible for his actions. But then Kitamura's place is not at school, but at other...place... with doors without handles.
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Old 2008-12-27, 07:44   Link #94
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Except Ryuuji was not the typical 'kindhearted' or 'nice' type of guy. He was pretty bullyish and was borderline abusive about Taiga meeting her father and pushing his thoughts onto her.

If he truly was trying to do something really 'nice', he wouldn't have stuck his head in where it didn't belong. Unfortunately, his past seems to play with his emotions.

For me, though, I can understand what Ryuuji is going through. Unfortunately.
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Old 2008-12-27, 07:50   Link #95
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No one was talking about Ryuuji. Ryuuji's kindness is of different type. It is not the kindness that harem males (like Kitamura) have, he is kind and good but can make choices and make them clear in given situations. Kitamura does not do so, thus his kindness is much more devastating specially if some poor girl happens to like him.
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Old 2008-12-27, 08:48   Link #96
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I'd say he's pretty "Nice" when he wants to be, the only difference is that his "niceness" seems to be based off of a lack of self-confidence. He always assumes that he's misreading signals from girls.
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Old 2008-12-27, 09:13   Link #97
wistfulloner
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Instead of Kitamura lacking self confidence, I would rather think of him as simply being modest.

And saying "I want to beat up Kitamura for toying with Taiga's heart unintentionally" is like saying "I want to beat up that senile old man for accidentally walking out of a store without paying for his goods". I mean, if he's unaware of his mistake, why beat him up? Even if you do, he won't even know why you're doing that unless you tell him so.

Kitamura is still wrong, but being unaware does not warrant a beating. If he is purposely fooling around with Taiga, THEN I'd like to tear his arms off and beat him with them.
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Old 2008-12-27, 09:30   Link #98
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You know, an act is still an act. Intentional or not intentional, those are just the circumstances.

And yes senile old men go to prison as well for theft, even if there explain the forgot to pay due to their old age. As long as the judge is not convinced about it. Though old age is taken into a softening circumstances but these are physical ones and are not always softening the decision.

Lets imagine a person who comes from some distant communistic village (by communism I mean the real K.Mark's communism, not russian, fucked up version of it) where the private property is non-existent, and he steals another person spends up the money and has fun, and once taken to trial he explains that he was not aware that he is doing something bad, and he is genuinely sorry. Yet despite that, these are softening circumstances that may decrease the level of his punishment but not punishment itself.

According to you if a person is unaware of his actions being bad, he should not be punished. A nice idea that romantics tried to protect back in the 19th century, but totally u-topical and with such 'justice' I don't think we would survive for very long.

The only way he is not responsible for his actions is when he is mentally deemed to be so, meaning he cannot really function as a normal person in our society. If however, he is mentally healthy, then him not being aware of his deed being bad, doesn't mean much and can only soften a little the punsihment that is still to come.

You may be surprised but thats how it works. As long as you are responsible for your actions, you still have to take the responsibility for your actions. The whole intentional or nonintentional are just softening circumstances but the deed itself still carries the same amount of responsibility, so you can stop with boldening that word since it doesn't change anything about the act itself as you still carry the same amount of responsibility for it.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2008-12-27 at 09:45.
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Old 2008-12-27, 10:56   Link #99
wistfulloner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Lets imagine a person who comes from some distant communistic village (by communism I mean the real K.Mark's communism, not russian, fucked up version of it) where the private property is non-existent, and he steals another person spends up the money and has fun, and once taken to trial he explains that he was not aware that he is doing something bad, and he is genuinely sorry. Yet despite that, these are softening circumstances that may decrease the level of his punishment but not punishment itself.
Thank you very much, you've got the gist of my argument right here. As I've said, what Kitamura has done is wrong, but that does not warrant a beating.

And anyway in your story, leniency will surely be taken into account, and as long as he's willing to compensate for the losses, I don't see any need for further punishment. If you say that he stole something, then that will already something intentional, wouldn't it?
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Old 2008-12-27, 12:44   Link #100
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That's why I softened it up from shooting him off to just beating him to a pulp .

Just like there is intentional homicide and unintentional. In both cases the crime is still there despite it being intentional or not intentional.

Note that he spent the money (thus no damages compensation is possible), and it is still a theft even if it was no really intentional theft. Anyways the compensation doesn't really repay the crime and can be only as a part of punishment. You still have to pay the compensation and additional punishment for the crime itself rather than just repaying damages.

Otherwise you could consider doing crimes actually useful since all you would need to do is compensate the damages. Thats why you have to make sure the crime would not pay and increase the punishment above just a simple compensation.

In Kitamura's case the damage is harder to compensate as we step into a thin lines of moral damage.

Though what Kitamura is doing so far is not a crime itself. He is just toying with someones genuine feelings. You could say that he is like a five your old child finding fathers pistol and playing with it and then accidentally shooting someone with it, but the problem is that Kitamura is not a child nor mentally ill, meaning that he is responsible for his actions, and responsible even for his unawareness of the situation.

The result gets him to be a bastard, despite of whatever great and good his intentions may be. As the result is still the same as when it is done by someone with evil intentions.
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