(L) Girls und Panzer

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by willx

Spoiler:

Not sure if you're watching the same video as I am, but I watched a Ferdi chase a tank along a long narrow alleyway instead of just shooting and firing when it had no chance left to go anywhere...

Spoiler for Of course.:

Crew not good at shooting a fish in a barrel while moving?

The bit with the JT actually brought to mind another World of Tanks comparison, concerning the related in-game phenomena of getting into fights where both tanks are glued together and driving in the same direction (usually with one in reverse) and how in the game the shot ignores the fact that your cannon barrel is so long that the shell would actually be coming out from behind your target. I was thinking that that would be really bad for the Lee... but then I remembered that even if the series takes some liberties with physics that it still has the shell coming out of the actual open part of the barrel...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

NicoNico

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20391529

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A new tank cake!

[willx]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

It took an average of 11 shots to disable an enemy tank during WW2 due to misses. Need I say more?

Yes, but those shots were being done at over 800M! This is literally fish in a barrel range! Y'know what, I'm falling into my own fallacy, do not compare GuP with real life in any way. I have to pretend the Tiger is "Fictional Tiger" since the Maus is already performing at "Fictional" levels to begin with. JagdTiger is "Fictional JagdTiger", etc etc.

Physics Note:
1) Armor is not powerful but the carbon behind it is
2) When trying to aim, everyone spins around in a circle 20 times before shooting!
2a) The above is only not true when people are shown on screen dramatically aiming, then those shots are 100% accurate

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by willx

Y'know what, I'm falling into my own fallacy, do not compare GuP with real life in any way.

Exactly. That's why I facepalm half of the time someone says that Kuromorimine was incompetent: It's ignoring real life, history, and human behavior.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Exactly. That's why I facepalm half of the time someone says that Kuromorimine was incompetent: It's ignoring both real life, history, and human behavior.

It's like complaining about errors in a highschool football match as if they are suppose to be Real Madrid. These are ALL amateurs.

[willx]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's like complaining about errors in a highschool football match as if they are suppose to be Real Madrid. These are ALL amateurs.

Come on now! Amateurs that can drive tanks! Amateurs that can maintain tanks! There's such a thing as logical consistency my friend.

This is a problem I have with anime, TV shows, movies, heck any sort of literary fiction whatsoever. I absolutely hate it when people mess with logical consistency. If you tell me to suspend my disbelief in one way, almost no matter how absurd, I can live with it as long as you stay consistent. Stay consistent!

It's like people crafting a beautiful world with its own laws of physics, culture, technology and history -- and then having events occur that go contrary to the world-building. I find it jarring. Like nails on a chalkboard jarring.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Miho knows Maho has no choice. Maho HAS to attack, that is the only acceptable tactic to her family.

When you have more than twice the opponent's tanks, there is no excuse for playing defensively.

That's why...is Brummbar even allowed? Should have used that and levelled the buildings if so

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by willx

^ Apparently KMM is being schooled in the "Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy"

This reminds me of the episode with Saunders, what is it with schools sending their flag tanks off alone somewhere? I'm somewhat excited by this result as it segues nicely into a Season 2 .. but the absolutely abysmal tactics shown in this series since the very first battle and every battle since kinda irks me. It's definitely a show about girls and tanks .. but not warfare or tactics! Everyone's tactics are bad! Everyone!

Well, there are two choices with a flag tank. You can hide it somewhere, either alone or with a thin escort and hope the enemy doesn't see it before you find theirs. Or you can put it inside your main formation and risk a lucky hit.

According to TVTropes, supposedly they once considered something similar to a flag tank mode for WoT called escort with effectively 3 flag tanks. Even the test players couldn't protect them. The natural conclusion is that if you are going to get into flag tank matches, your best move is to hide the flag tank somehow.

Spoiler:

But KMM's Captain clearly wants a duel.

Originally Posted by willx

Yes, but those shots were being done at over 800M! This is literally fish in a barrel range! Y'know what, I'm falling into my own fallacy, do not compare GuP with real life in any way. I have to pretend the Tiger is "Fictional Tiger" since the Maus is already performing at "Fictional" levels to begin with. JagdTiger is "Fictional JagdTiger", etc etc.

Physics Note:
1) Armor is not powerful but the carbon behind it is
2) When trying to aim, everyone spins around in a circle 20 times before shooting!
2a) This is only not true when people are shown on screen dramatically aiming, then those shots are 100% accurate

And 3) There is a positive correlation between the invulnerability of the target and the hit rate!

You have to remember, though,

Spoiler for that those tanks:

chasing Duck team were shooting. They weren't getting hits. If that's so, maybe it was wiser to conserve ammunition.

Spoiler for Jadgtiger:

Also, Jadgtiger couldn't even kill the M3 even at point-blank range. The frustration at their poor gunnery skills cause them to resort to trying to push the M3 into the river, which led to their demise.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I just want to not something. In ep 11 you see on the big screen they actually list out all the tanks that are in the match as well as greying out any that are knocked out. But the animators being sneaky, the Black Forest team has a team list so long that the Maus was actually hidden at the very bottom of their team list and not seen on screen. They had to scroll the list to show it and they never did.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Spoiler for Jadgtiger:

Also, Jadgtiger couldn't even kill the M3 even at point-blank range. The frustration at their poor gunnery skills cause them to resort to trying to push the M3 into the river, which led to their demise.

what...no...The Jagdtiger can't hit the M3 because the barrel was off. It was too long. There was no poor gunnery skills whatsoever. Although why they don't stop and shoot is another issue entirely.

Exactly. That's why I facepalm half of the time someone says that Kuromorimine was incompetent: It's ignoring real life, history, and human behavior.

You mean KMM ignores RL or that saying KMM is incompetent ignores RL? People saying KMM's gunnery is poor comes from them missing in cramped alleys in less that 20m ranges. That does not contradict real life at all.

Ah well, the main focus of the show is the girls anyway and the quirks of the battles aren't exactly annoying at all

[panzerfan]

I am re-watching, and I noticed a few things that explained the incredible stand-off of the Leopon Tiger P.

-Leopon took out a Jagdpanzer IV and a Panther, one covering each flank, so only the angled front and a part of the actual side had to absorb the incoming hits.
-Leopon took out a third Jagdpanzer IV, making all other tanks attacking it having to shoot it from an angle. There was no way that the vulnerable rear could be shot at.
-Leopon was armored to the point that the 7.5cm KwK 42 on the 2 surviving Jagdpanzer and the 2 Panther tanks couldn't make an impression on it, even at 100 meter range. AP composite Rigid rounds would've been needed for the Leopon to be penetrated from the side, but the combination of angling and the fact that the lack of side exposure makes the tank hard to kill.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

what...no...The Jagdtiger can't hit the M3 because the barrel was off. It was too long

Spoiler:

I meant the scene before that, when the Jadgtiger actually positioned itself at the crossroads to ambush the M3. They still only manage such a high deflection shot (they did scrape off the M3's paint) they didn't kill it.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Spoiler:

I meant the scene before that, when the Jadgtiger actually positioned itself at the crossroads to ambush the M3. They still only manage such a high deflection shot (they did scrape off the M3's paint) they didn't kill it.

Spoiler for Rabbits:

Wasn't that because Azusa had intuited that they were running into a bad situation, and so had Karina stop the tank just in time for the Jagdtiger to miss? Had they stopped a fraction of a second later, they would've been totalled.

Images

In honor of Rabbit Team

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[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

You mean KMM ignores RL or that saying KMM is incompetent ignores RL? People saying KMM's gunnery is poor comes from them missing in cramped alleys in less that 20m ranges. That does not contradict real life at all.

The latter, but the statement was based on Episode 11. Haven't had the chance to see Episode 12, but I don't expect that statement to change.

[willx]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Spoiler for Rabbits:

Wasn't that because Azusa had intuited that they were running into a bad situation, and so had Karina stop the tank just in time for the Jagdtiger to miss? Had they stopped a fraction of a second later, they would've been totalled.

I think we need to add "Newtype" *zing* sounds to every instance something like this happens. Reminds me of the battle between Oorai and Saunders.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by willx

I think we need to add "Newtype" *zing* sounds to every instance something like this happens. Reminds me of the battle between Oorai and Saunders.

Or the time I got a Lion to team kill another Lion

[Cosmic Eagle]

On ep 11, as far as I'm concerned the only unforgiveable (for a school team) error they made was letting the Ooarai JgPz 38(t) sneak up on them. Having their formation thrown into chaos when an enemy unit appears right next to them is understandable and they should be laughing they didn't friendly fire each other apart trying to kill the Ooarai unit.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Spoiler:

I meant the scene before that, when the Jadgtiger actually positioned itself at the crossroads to ambush the M3. They still only manage such a high deflection shot (they did scrape off the M3's paint) they didn't kill it.

That actually seemed like they fired too early from being too trigger happy to me...Not a question of poor aim.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

On ep 11, as far as I'm concerned the only unforgiveable (for a school team) error they made was letting the Ooarai JgPz 38(t) sneak up on them.

Tank destroyer that has been historically difficult to detect + Dunkelgelb = Hetzing

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Spoiler for Rabbits:

Wasn't that because Azusa had intuited that they were running into a bad situation, and so had Karina stop the tank just in time for the Jagdtiger to miss? Had they stopped a fraction of a second later, they would've been totalled.

Spoiler for The Jadgtiger:

You are one of the better tank crews (otherwise you won't have been allocated the Jagdtiger) in Kuromorimine, the elite school of Senshado.

You have been shooting with your comrades and lifting 128mm shells weighing 26.4kg all day ... and have inflicted exactly 0 damage on your enemy, and so far exactly TWO of your side's 20 tanks inflicted any damage at all, counting every long, medium and what the theoreticians call "point-blank" shots.

Now you have this little pesky M3 that is crewed by a bunch of freshmen from a no name school, with the lowest hit rate in the enemy team. Even so, infuriatingly, it is still better than yours ... they actually did have an assist-kill on a M4*, and you still hadn't hit anything yet.

*I use to think they had no kills too, but TVTropes prompted me to re-watch Ep5, and that pair of rapid sequence hits on the M4 probably was them.

Worse, they somehow took out your buddy the Elefant, and now pecking away at your butt. You could probably have ignored it but your pride is hurt and they might just get lucky again, so you set up an ambush. Surely, you can't miss with the muzzle almost literally pressing against the enemy's helpless flesh.

You still do nothing more than scrape paint.

What would your mental state be? No wonder

Spoiler for They weren't:

watching the terrain and realizing they are about to head for a crevice.

[xizro345]

Spoiler for Episode 12 spoilers:

Well, that was enjoyable. Good directing, every character left had a chance to shine, and the ending was definitely satisfying. Saki speaking was a surprise, and she even gave good advice... Nice Miho & Maho moment, and even Shiho had to admit her daughter had done well.

Final thoughts:

When I first heard of the series, I thought the concept was kind of absurd but worth watching. I wasn't expecting to see the equivalent of Saki with tanks. Overall the series had several strong points:

- Good characters. Most are archetypes, yes, but they're done in a way you can easily remember their quirks and behavior. Also, a very likable cast. People like the History Club or the Volleyball club may not be deep characters, but they're fun to watch, and bonus points for the staff to characterize them also via actions, and not only words.
- Good pacing and good direction. The story doesn't feel compressed that much, and manages to work fine. The direction is another thing I liked: it probably won't be very "peculiar", but it's extremely effective, especially during tank battles.
- I'm no tank expert, but the amount of research that went into the tanks, was, as far as I can understand, quite impressive.
- Good production values. Delays aside, the quality (save for episode 10) managed to remain pretty much consistent. The CG for tanks doesn't really stand out that much, as well.

All in all, it was probably the best show of the Winter 2012 season, and a very good show on its own.
Will there be another season? Given the smashing success the series is having I certainly hope so. While I'm not certain it'll happen, I wouldn't mind seeing Ooarai going "Panzer Vor!" once again...