2012-02-03, 17:54 | Link #2282 | |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
|
Meanwhile, back in 1916...when California was a swing state....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._pr...election,_1916 Republican/Progressive candidate Charles Evans Hughes' eligibility was questioned due to his father being a British citizen at the time of Charles birth in 1862. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen) Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-02-03, 18:37 | Link #2283 |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
|
No wonder everyone thinks that statistics are a bunch of lies and BS - I completely disagree with that assertion. There's no way to actually make that accurately representative, no matter how you spin it.
__________________
|
2012-02-03, 19:00 | Link #2284 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Quote:
You randomly select a number of zip codes in each state, such that added together those zip codes are representative of the state (EG correct balance between urban/rural, even distribution of wealthy and poor neighbourhoods etc.) Once you have randomly selected those zip codes, you randomly select a number of households in each zip code. So let's say, you want 200 households from every zip code, that means you select 325 zip codes from the US to survey, making sure those zip codes are chosen according to a sound methodology. Constructing a representative sample is one of the age old problems, but it's not as difficult as you might think, and the methodology towards doing it correctly is well documented. The question isn't "can I get a representative sample" but "how representative can my sample be for the cost of my survey?" The US does not have resource constraints like a private polling organisation does, hence they can have such an oncenely large sample size (most surveys are 2-10 thousand people, and you can get a decent sample with as few as 200). Read a book on statistics sometime. Statistics is used everywhere. Most people don't read up on it, because it's simultaneously really boring. |
|
2012-02-03, 19:19 | Link #2286 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
If you guys want to know further about how they calculate unemployment, here it is.
It's a bit dry and dull, but what do you expect from the "bureau of labor statistics". |
2012-02-03, 19:38 | Link #2287 | |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
|
Quote:
Just another example of big money corruption.
__________________
|
|
2012-02-03, 19:52 | Link #2288 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
|
I contend that both the Republican and Democratic Parties are corrupted beyond reason and that someone needs to take a stand against them both for the sake of the country. And I don't mean some radical extremist party. We need something that returns us to what we think is the nation's ideals before the corruption took over the government. We don't need a revolution. We need a reasonable Party that can restore reason and honor to our nation.
The problem is...who....how...and to get people to vote for something that isn't the old party lines. Instead of just not voting at all.
__________________
|
2012-02-03, 20:16 | Link #2289 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
|
Doubt a third party could operate for long without getting corrupted fast. A fundamental issue is the cost of campaigning. As long as lawmakers have to sell their independence in exchange for a chance to win elections the cycle will continue. Banning or severely limiting all political advertising in mass media might be a start to remove unhealthy donor influence.
|
2012-02-03, 20:23 | Link #2290 | |
Shadow of Effilisi
Join Date: Oct 2011
|
Quote:
In United States of America, money means votes. |
|
2012-02-03, 20:26 | Link #2291 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-02-03, 20:36 | Link #2292 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
To get back to your question - it depends on what the question is. Does it matter that you go to a certain university or not? Maybe. Maybe not. You'd have to test it. |
|
2012-02-03, 20:38 | Link #2293 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, England
Age: 37
|
Quote:
I doubt any drastic changes will occur unless something really drastic happens like a financial meltdown. Otherwise it will be more of the same business as usual policies. It took the Great Depression for the US to reject the laissez-faire approach to the economy, add banking regulation, implement Keynesian policies and cause a surge in the popularity of labour unions. None of those movements would have gained traction had it not been for the depression. I fear something similar must happen where the status quo and politic system becomes untenable before drastic changes can be made. Another good point can also be gleaned if I finish the Friedman quote I mentioned earlier: When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. So perhaps the best idea would be to provide solutions and make sure these ideas just happen to be lying around if and when the crisis comes. Friedman applied this philosophy with great success although one must say the means of achieving it were highly suspect if not criminal... |
|
2012-02-03, 21:13 | Link #2294 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'll admit that my only statistical training was biostatistics. Even there, the primary weapon of choice is a t-test, and it's used just for the convenience of saying "look, this difference in data is statistically significant, so we're not making it up." The thing is, the statistical test is just a test. While useful for being arbitrary, it doesn't mean that you can suspend all other forms of interpretation. In biology, suppose I perform an analysis using 2,000 cells, and find that there is a statistically significant difference with a group of another 2,000 cells. That is a laughably small number of cells when you consider that this cell type exists in the millions per organism, and that there's variation even between organisms. Such data may be published, but it had better be backed by a ton of other data - and even then, I would seize on that particular data as a weak link in the research. Going back to your example, by looking at people sampled from a university, you might be able to stretch it and say that your findings are representative of opinions held by Americans attending university, but all of America? All 300 billion Americans? We don't even have to limit it to college students being polled, even randomly calling around the United States means that you're getting roughly 40 people per state and are trying to say that their opinions represent a correct breakdown for 300 billion people, spread all over the country, across different lines of work, and all with different experiences? I don't care what the statistics show. Think about that for a second and I hope you'll agree with me that it's absolutely ridiculous. But it makes for a good news article that sounds credible, I'll give it that.
__________________
|
||
2012-02-03, 21:55 | Link #2295 |
Shadow of Effilisi
Join Date: Oct 2011
|
Just to point out that US does not have ~230x China's population.
But yeah, to claim 2000 samples taken in university, a place at best representative of a small portion of population (young and relatively well-educated), is as good as samples taken from all over the country is rather ridiculous. |
2012-02-03, 21:56 | Link #2296 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Statistics are only as good as the model used to construct the sampling, i.e.
"university students" do not equal 'American view" no matter how carefully you sample. edit: and Kokukirin typed faster...
__________________
|
2012-02-03, 22:06 | Link #2297 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
You're misreading me.
What I mean is that a 2000 person sample is just as accurate for a university, as for the entire country. IE the size of the population being sampled is irrelevant, so long as the sample is representative. But. If you took 2000 people from just a university, that sample would be accurate for the university, but not for the entire country, as I've introduced a systemic bias from just sampling from the university. To have a sample that's accurate for the entire country, you would need to draw the sample from the entire country, but the same accuracy would be obtained from the same sample size. So if, instead of sampling 2000 people at the local university, I samples 2000 people by picking random names out of the national US telephone book, I'd get a pretty representative sample of the entire US. Note though, that I would be only sampling people who own a telephone. So if I wanted an accurate survey of what percentage of the country owns a telephone, that wouldn't really work. I would never imply that a sample drawn just from a university would be accurate for the whole country. That's absurd. You need to sample widely. For one thing, if you only sampled from a University, 90% of the population would be between 17 and 23! To improve accuracy, you can also use known information to make your sample more representative. So if I'm doing my university survey, I'll just be pulling people who are walking around, and asking them questions. If I know that 60% of the University is female, I can preselect so that 60% of my respondents are female, making my sample more representative. Likewise, if I know 20% are in the science faculty, I can make my sample more representative by taking 20% of my sample from the science building. This is what BLS does, they divide all the counties into certain categories based on factors like whether they're urban/rural and other demographic indicators they know from the previous census, and they'll randomly pick counties from those categories in proportion to the country as a whole (EG, if half the US population is rural, half the counties chosen will be rural). They'll also weight certain respondents to compensate in case a group is over represented in their sample. For instance, if Blacks make up 20% of their sample, but the census indicates that blacks only take up 10% of the population, they'll weight black respondents downwards by half, and weight the rest of the sample up by 12 and a half percent. Last edited by DonQuigleone; 2012-02-03 at 22:34. |
2012-02-03, 22:09 | Link #2298 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, England
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Crash Course: Chapter 16 - Fuzzy Numbers (1 of 2) by Chris Martenson If the government can skew inflation that much you have to wonder if they make rose tinted errors when applying that sample to unemployment statistics. |
|
2012-02-03, 22:35 | Link #2299 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Quote:
The only point of criticism of unemployment statistics is that they don't include "discouraged" unemployed. But if you go to the BLS, they do list stats including discouraged unemployed. That news companies don't include those people is their fault, not the BLS. |
|
2012-02-03, 23:03 | Link #2300 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, England
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Basically since the 1990s inflation does not really measure inflation by its skewed system of substitution, geometric weighting and hedonics. Even when calculating the average basket of goods the government - at least the one in the UK - does not use the arithmetic mean but the geometric mean which provides a lower number than normal. In addition the weighting of various aspect of spending is also skewed to make the figure seem lower. For example spending on hospital maybe lowered than what is spent in the actual economy thus lowering the inflation rate. In certain areas they are entirely ignored such as fuel for the car. The substitution effect is another cause for lower inflation readings and this comes about when the price of a certain good rises too quickly it is then substituted for a cheaper good. The biggest impact on inflation however is how products are hedonically adjusted. What this means is if you buy a faster computer then the government is likely to subtract the price of the computer as it is hedonically adjusted for inflation. More and more items are becoming hedonically adjusted and this has resulted in an artifically low inflation rate. If the inflation is actually higher than stated then that means GDP growth is lower than stated and that could well mean that if we think we are in a period of low growth the reality could be we are still in a recession. Granted, measuring statistics is difficult and there will always be flaws but if these flaws always paint a rosier picture than warranted then that should be a cause of suspicion. And these rosy pictures not only paint a dishonest picture of our situation but they also mislead the very people who need to use these statistics to apply economic policies i.e. the government itself. So in the end the measures are somewhat self-defeating. This inaccurate reading means when the stats say we have a recession of -1% growth the reality could actually be that we are experiencing -3% growth. Each situation requires a different economic strategy but by following inaccurate figures we are more likely to pursue inappropriate policies. |
|
Tags |
2012 elections, us elections |
|
|