Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Destined_Fate]

Wait, Loran had sex with a manipulative Sochie and than she died? I don't remember that stuff happening... Though Sochie loved Loran but was just the girl that lost.

Besides Sochie lets go of her hate and loved Loran before she knew he was a moonrace guy than learned to over look at that and still love him even if she was unchoosen while Fllay... Not so much.

[Znozzy]

Fate, Based =/= copy, you know?

[rakusukira]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

She wasn't his first so she must be punishing Kira for banging Fllay... Multiple times. So serpate beds and sleeping with war orphans so they can never do anything!

this is just hilarious!! hahaha!! waiting seems to be their motto. and i doubt they haven't really done anything intimate in those two years living together. i think Lacus knows Kira is not yet into her that much

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Wait, Loran had sex with a manipulative Sochie and than she died? I don't remember that stuff happening... Though Sochie loved Loran but was just the girl that lost.

Besides Sochie lets go of her hate and loved Loran before she knew he was a moonrace guy than learned to over look at that and still love him even if she was unchoosen while Fllay... Not so much.

Fllay actually, unknowingly fell in love with Kira earlier than the oh so famous death scene.. I even think she fell in love with him first. Even if Fukuda said Kira didn't really love her, i still think he did.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

Fllay actually, unknowingly fell in love with Kira earlier than the oh so famous death scene.. I even think she fell in love with him first. Even if Fukuda said Kira didn't really love her, i still think he did.

I can sort of understand why Fukuda kind of said that Kira didn't really love Fllay. The relationship started as a result of circumstance IMO. With Fllay trying to make herself a stronger reason for Kira to fight i.e protecting her and the Archangel, leading him to fight in perhaps a more cold blooded manner. On Kira's side it was the emotional trauma of not being able to save the civilians in the shuttle which made with very vulnerable to Fllay's advances in the desert because in that vulnerable state Kira needed some form of comfort and he got that from Fllay. Though her motives may not be for the right reasons.

This IMO is the reason they break up later before Kira becomes MIA, because he feels he took advantage of Fllay, thus he thinks it is a mistake, not because he think she is using him, I think Kira is kind of dense in the relationship aspects. (maybe he kind of thinks he is starting to like Cagali more too) This theory fits with what Kira does and says when he fails to reach the lifepod later on. He feels sort of indebt to her and guilty that he is unable to protect her. From the seeing the flashback of Fllay and him being intimate, it appears to me that he was feeling more so guilty about their past relationship than actually being in Love with her. Just how I look at it I guess.

[Destined_Fate]

I see that one of my fans here is trying to send me a message. Hard being popular I suppose.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Fate, Based =/= copy, you know?

Feel free to elaborate. From what I can see Fllay has very little in common with Sochie other than them hating a race/people(Though unlike Fllay, Sochie didn't hate the Moonrace just vecause they're different while Fllay feared and hated Coordinators because they were different. Her losing her daddy just pushed her over the edge) that wronged them severely in the past only Sochie didn't go crazy evil and manipulative to try and get revenge by using the main character, with sex, as a tool.

[Znozzy]

Sochie = Hates the moonrace, with her fathers death pushing her hate further, had a crush on Loran, Jelous that he cares more about Kihel/Dianna than her
Fllay = Hates the coordinators, with her fathers death pushing her hate further, Jelous & Manipulative as shown when Cagalli was trying to cheer Kira up.

Lacus = Pop princess, more holy than anything in the world. Kira protects her with his life
Dianna = Queen, Loran sees her as the most holy thing in the world. Loran protects her with his life

Moro/Fuku based Kira's relationships on Loran and Sochie/Dianna/Kihel's.

Just how Seed is based on MSG.

It's the same way chef's base food recipe's on eachother's work and add their own touches

Same same but different, you know?

[Destined_Fate]

Sochie doesn't hate the Moonrace for the exact same reasons that Fllay hates the Coordinators. Fllay was afraid of them since her introduction while Sochie didn't fear or hate the Moonrace untill after they messed with her.

Sochie feels betrayed when she learns the man she loves is the same race as those that killed her father while Fllay instead forces Kira to get revenge for her and kill all coordinators they meet. Sochie later gets over this and doesn't hate the Moonrace as a whole while Fllay is never shown to forgive the coordinators or care for them other than figuring out she loved Kira despite him being a coordinator.

Lacus and Dianna though are similiar though Lacus is a bit overboard since she can do a ridiculous amount of things despite having no training or past experience with stuff like building a Gundam or captaining a giant space battleship.

Fllay and Sochie have somewhat similiar histories but if they wanted to capture a Sochie than they dropped the ball with Fllay. Hell, Fllay doesn't even let Kira go and figired out she was in love with him, but it was too late, when she died while Sochie lets Loran go and moves on with her life.

[Znozzy]

But do you understand that its based on Loran's relationships with Sochie/Kihel/Dianna ?

[Destined_Fate]

Very loosely, Fllay puts a damper in it and Lacus and Kira took Loran and Dianna to the 11.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Lacus and Dianna though are similiar though Lacus is a bit overboard since she can do a ridiculous amount of things despite having no training or past experience with stuff like building a Gundam or captaining a giant space battleship.

Lacus doesn't need to have prior knowledge in any of that. She can delegate tasks to other people who would know how to get the job done.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by monster

Lacus doesn't need to have prior knowledge in any of that. She can delegate tasks to other people who would know how to get the job done.

That why she have Terminal (Company owner don't need to know how to build thing but how to sell/used it).

Also based =/= doesn't mean 100% copy.
(Just like GS is based on MG but it's not 100% copy.)

[rakusukira]

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

I can sort of understand why Fukuda kind of said that Kira didn't really love Fllay. The relationship started as a result of circumstance IMO. With Fllay trying to make herself a stronger reason for Kira to fight i.e protecting her and the Archangel, leading him to fight in perhaps a more cold blooded manner. On Kira's side it was the emotional trauma of not being able to save the civilians in the shuttle which made with very vulnerable to Fllay's advances in the desert because in that vulnerable state Kira needed some form of comfort and he got that from Fllay. Though her motives may not be for the right reasons.

This IMO is the reason they break up later before Kira becomes MIA, because he feels he took advantage of Fllay, thus he thinks it is a mistake, not because he think she is using him, I think Kira is kind of dense in the relationship aspects. (maybe he kind of thinks he is starting to like Cagali more too) This theory fits with what Kira does and says when he fails to reach the lifepod later on. He feels sort of indebt to her and guilty that he is unable to protect her. From the seeing the flashback of Fllay and him being intimate, it appears to me that he was feeling more so guilty about their past relationship than actually being in Love with her. Just how I look at it I guess.

woah, nice observation. I guess Kira is really that kind for his actions to be more so misunderstood as being in love.

so this makes me wonder that if Fllay lived, who would have Kira ended up with? I can't really say, but I hope that if they remake the end of Seed and make Fllay live, that Kira still ends up with Lacus

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

woah, nice observation. I guess Kira is really that kind for his actions to be more so misunderstood as being in love.

so this makes me wonder that if Fllay lived, who would have Kira ended up with? I can't really say, but I hope that if they remake the end of Seed and make Fllay live, that Kira still ends up with Lacus

Well, you know, Kira did kind of, uh. you know. Dump Fllay

[monster]

For the people who think Kira tries not to kill because of Orb or Cagalli or whatever is in Destiny, they should really remind themselves of SEED episodes like this latest one from the remaster.

Seriously, you must not have watched the show(s) if you think Kira doesn't kill just because his sister is crying. That's just silly, especially since the first thing Kira did is to cause the deaths of several Minerva crewmen.

[justavisitor]

Kira's objective is always to avoid causality, but that does not mean he won't go for a kill if necessary. And he definitely won't lose any sleep if he killed people in the battle. It is like he knows he has tried the best to minimize causality and there is nothing more he can do.

Seriously, I know a lot of people hate his "no kill policy", but I personally enjoy it very much XD

[monster]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Seriously, I know a lot of people hate his "no kill policy", but I personally enjoy it very much XD

Me too, except I don't like to call it a "no-kill policy" since Kira will kill when he thinks he has to. And that's just fine by me in the context of fighting in a war.

For the record, I don't care if other people don't like it, but the least they could do is understand why he did it. Attributing it to Cagalli or Orb, for instance, tells me they don't really know what they're talking about, which makes their dislike for Kira's action seems silly to me.

[Soaring Griffin]

Originally Posted by monster

Me too, except I don't like to call it a "no-kill policy" since Kira will kill when he thinks he has to. And that's just fine by me in the context of fighting in a war.

For the record, I don't care if other people don't like it, but the least they could do is understand why he did it. Attributing it to Cagalli or Orb, for instance, tells me they don't really know what they're talking about, which makes their dislike for Kira's action seems silly to me.

You mean like the guys who say how it's so idealistic/naive/stupid of Kira to not kill in battle, saying that it would smarter/more mature of him to just kill because it's war and completely ignore one of the major themes of Seed.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Soaring Griffin

You mean like the guys who say how it's so idealistic/naive/stupid of Kira to not kill in battle, saying that it would smarter/more mature of him to just kill because it's war and completely ignore one of the major themes of Seed.

We used to have intelligent debates about this topic in the past, but those days it's just poorly constructed arguments to hate/love kira's "no kill policy".

[monster]

Originally Posted by Soaring Griffin

You mean like the guys who say how it's so idealistic/naive/stupid of Kira to not kill in battle, saying that it would smarter/more mature of him to just kill because it's war and completely ignore one of the major themes of Seed.

Possibly, but I would refrain from using Kira's style of fighting as an example for SEED's theme simply because it is not something that everyone can (or should) do.

Rather, as I said in the past, it is simply a reflection of his development as a character in response to his experience in SEED. Of course, it is influenced by SEED's theme.

[Soaring Griffin]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

We used to have intelligent debates about this topic in the past, but those days it's just poorly constructed arguments to hate/love kira's "no kill policy".

I'm not even really talking about here. I've lurked on other forums, and almost always there's a few people attack Kira's "policy" in a way I described. I end up wondering if these people even watched to the dang show and saw how Kira and Athrun's friendship was almost destroyed because of Nicol and Tolle's deaths, or how random grunts would use fallen loved ones as justification for terrible acts and so on. It boggles my mind.

Originally Posted by monster

Possibly, but I would refrain from using Kira's style of fighting as an example for SEED's theme simply because it is not something that everyone can (or should) do.

Rather, as I said in the past, it is simply a reflection of his development as a character in response to his experience in SEED. Of course, it is influenced by SEED's theme.

You are right, it's not the most practical thing to do but he does have his reasons and pretty good ones at that.