2012-06-22, 11:14 | Link #61 | |
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You doubt that they can kill 4 old men but you don't doubt that Itachi can kill the whole Uchiha clan, that he can easily defeat Orochimaru with one genjutsu, that Itachi's susano's Totsuka sword can easily seal anyone's soul. Furthermore we know that Shisui could have used his eyes to manipulate both Danzou and Hiruzen to do what he wants, one MS eye jutsu for each of them. The power of Shisui's eye and Itachi's eye saved the 5 kages from Madara, the power of izanagi and izanami both could have been used against the elders. So the question is not if these two could have killed or controlled the 4 elders but why were they so loyal to these shitty elders instead of their own clan. |
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2012-06-22, 11:29 | Link #62 | |
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2012-06-22, 13:06 | Link #63 |
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good chapt but i just expected more of a bombshell this week. i noticed that many ppl dont talk about the fact that the coup was in many ways konohas fault, think about it . the village blamed the uchiha for the nine tails attack by madara. the uchiha as a clan had nothing to do with it, and yet they are blamed. i also sense that because madara is a uchiha its ok to blame the clan itself. what was the clan to do they saw how the village was treating them, and after they were put away so to speak, they saw the writing on the wall that sooner or later the village was comeing after them(esp after the nine tails attack .this is the ninja world we are talking about and the uchiha knew how the village deals with problems. were they to sit around and wait to be gutted, they had a right to defend themselves against a village that thought them guilty of a attack (nine tails) of which they were blameless.
Last edited by 23 gundam fan; 2012-06-22 at 13:16. |
2012-06-22, 13:41 | Link #64 | |
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You assume that the village would "gut" them, but there was no sign of that, they never knew that Itachi was spying on them and based on that the village knew about what were they planning. If the village didn't know about their plans there would be no reason to kill them. And if the village doesn't plan to kill them then why attack the village? They had no right to attack the village, they could have just left the village and offered their power to another village or take over a smaller village like Orochimaru did. |
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2012-06-22, 13:52 | Link #65 |
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the uchiha founded konoha on a partnership with the senju, but all the leadership kept being mostly of senju or at least non-uchiha descent including all 5 kage and that unbalanced ratio kept getting greater to the point of the uchiha not even having a village advisor. i think the uchiha had every right to plan a coup and take back power in a village that was founded on their strength and sacrifice
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2012-06-22, 14:47 | Link #66 | |
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2012-06-22, 15:46 | Link #67 | |
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2012-06-22, 18:31 | Link #69 | |
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As far as the reason for the rebellion I'm always surprised how the fact that the Uchiha were told to live in a compound at the outskirt of the village is completely overlooked as something not that important. There is a reason why population transfer is considered both a war crime and a crime against humanity now. Isolating a segment of a population is almost always the first move before pogrom and genocide. This decision alone justifies open revolt (althought there is no denying the Uchiha went about it so badly it's ridiculous). In the other hand James I don't think just leaving was a realistic option. Without even going into the feasibility of deserting en masse Konoha it's not like they hadn't been at war with the rest of the world for generations. The idea that they had somehow a better chance in the foreign villages they had been fighting forever than in their own doesn't make much sense. Secondly why would they leave in the first place? Konoha was their home, it makes more sense to overthrow the government screwing with you than taking your chance with your ennemies as your ex-comrades track you down. |
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2012-06-23, 00:53 | Link #71 | |
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That being said, considering that Orochimaru was able to create his own hidden villiage seemingly overnight, I don't see what prevented the Uchiha from doing something similar. Or, maybe they could have petitioned the Daimyo to become Royal guards. Or, they could have simply gone on strike, forcing Konoha to either kill them needlessly, or actually discuss the problem (I find it hard to believe that some Yamanaka's couldn't mindfuck the Uchiha clan to find out their involvement in the Kyuubi incident...and if the Uchiha were too proud to accept this level of inquiry, then they were even bigger idiots than I imagined). Whatever the case, the options chosen by all involved was simply asinine, and I sincerely wish that there could have been some actually discussion of the various possibilities in determining why war was the better option. |
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2012-06-23, 02:26 | Link #72 | |
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I don't think, if there is a civil war, uchiha clan would lose because itachi alone is already a bad ass powerful ninja.. The shitty reason of trying to protect sasuke is a farce because there is other way to do that.. Plus, leaving sasuke in a tiger den is so much for trying to protect him eh?? The only explanation here is that the whole uchiha clan is EVIL, no other reason for itachi not to side with them if they're not evil.. makes no sense.. |
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2012-06-23, 02:43 | Link #73 | |
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2012-06-23, 03:31 | Link #74 |
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I can adhere the whole story in Naruto except the Uchiha massacre
Why confiding the mission to one ninja when facing an entire clan. What if that fails? The Uchiha will revolt immediately. What were Danzo thinking when taking this decision? Balancing the survive of his brother and the massacre of the whole family, if I were Itachi, I would have fleed after kidnapping Sasuke, if what matters was Sasuke to survive. Why would Tobi agree to kill the Uchihas? We know he is not Madara. He does not have really a reason. Why would Itachi try to negotiate a deal with Tobi? It is a random dude he met for the first time. He is so suspicious, I would not trust him to keep his word especially letting the village safe. Well, now it is over and there are other interesting things to know. PS: if he killed the parents when they were kneeling down, I don't understand how the bodies are disposed like that Last edited by MeroBAKA; 2012-08-05 at 07:17. |
2012-06-23, 04:23 | Link #75 | ||
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2012-06-23, 10:51 | Link #76 | |
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We're talking about 2 men annihilate the entire uchiha clan here, it's either those 2 men are super duper powerful or the 'uchiha clan' is super lame and the former is more likely.. it's a matter of which side they choose and the one they choose will be pretty much harmless.. if ya think konoha side would be able to put much of a fight against uchiha clan especially with itachi on their side then we see things differently.. It's easy, siding with konoha, itachi picks tobi, siding with the clan, itachi can pick orochimaru who we saw weakened konoha to a pretty bad shape himself.. if uchiha clan is trying to stage coup d etat then I fail to see how's that too evil.. they just wanted to take control and in the contrary konoha wanted to annihilate ALL OF THEM including the unknowing children.. who's evil now?? not too mention they did it in the manner of asking uchiha own clan to do it.. wow.. |
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2012-06-23, 10:56 | Link #77 | |
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2012-06-23, 14:47 | Link #78 | |
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And as i already wrote earlier there is no reason to give the Uchiha some fixed place in the leadership just because they are the Uchiha. Having priviledges like that based on which clan you are in would lead to the village breaking up. If you look at the hokage position it was never given based on what are the clan memberships, but based on merits. The elders were not Senju either. It's true that the current hokage is a Senju descendant, but she was never the first choice. Why not, Orochimaru left the village and even had his own village (sound). These villages are not all ruled by emotional leaders, they can be quite rational when it comes to important decisions, and what village would not want the Uchiha clan to join their forces. The old tsuchikage even used the akatsuki when he needed them. There are also smaller villages that the Uchiha could have taken over. Or lets imagine the Uchiha forming an allince with the sand to crush Konoha, just like Orochimaru did. If we look at the story so far i can't remember any strong people being killed because they left the village. The village may have sent it's anbu or whatever hunter ninjas, but they usually simply die against really strong people. Konoha would have to send out an entire army to hunt down the Uchiha, but then there are enemy villages who would wait just for that. |
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2012-06-23, 21:18 | Link #79 | |
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But still, the really first unforgivable (politically speaking) move came from the Elders with the transfer of the clan out of the village. That's so dumb and counter-productive that I still hope it was purposely staged by Danzou to force the issue so at least someone could be immoral but not completely devoid of intelligence. You won't see me hold my breath though. And that's why I don't buy the blame game on the Uchiha for being eventually responsible for a future world war (and don't get me started into this so called obvious result when nothing happened after multiple Kyubi attacks, a war against the Sand, the destruction of the village or the actual coups in the Mist village to take another example). From my point of view the responsibility comes first from the systematic bad decisions of Konoha's power that be. You must have (at least) two sides to have a civil war, and if they were so concerned about its inevitability then maybe they should have thought about it sooner and if push comes to shove they could just step down. But from the look of it staying in power and keeping the Uchiha in their place was more important which make them just as guilty in the best of case. But then this chapter just told me that had Itachi involved 5-7 years old Sasuke it all could have been avoided so yeah my mind is blown and they were pretty much all a bunch of incompetent intellectually deficient rejects. @Ero-Sennin, there is a lack of Uchiha because they are virtually extinct whereas there is no Senju because.... Well that's the question isn't it? We don't know and that doesn't make sense. |
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2012-06-24, 16:10 | Link #80 | |
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Itachi noted this in an earlier flashback - other than him and Sasuke, the clan was MIA that night. I strongly suspect they were collaborating with Tobi/Madara, and he backstabbed them at the time of the massacre. |
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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