|
View Poll Results: Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 14 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 68 | 56.67% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 34 | 28.33% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 13 | 10.83% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 2.50% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 0.83% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.83% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2009-01-17, 19:46 | Link #101 | |||
.: A bad doggy :.
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Quote:
Telling me how Japanese couples act differently then American couples holds no water to explaining why the pacing has been so rushed. And again, even if they didn't want to show such things, I've given the simple sample of body language that would have been more than enough for what we're 'missing'. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2009-01-17, 20:49 | Link #102 |
Moderate Haruhiist
|
Egads, Master Chibi managed to convince someone? What is the world coming to?
I'm actually taking a post-grad course in Creative Writing, and I have mentioned before that, in all reason by virtue of my degree (Comm Arts with focus on Written Communication) I should be complaining as much as he is. 'Show, don't tell' has always been a mantra my professor drilled into me, and CLANNAD is doing none of the former, and relying on indirect hints for the latter. And yet I'm not complaining. Call me weird, but I think that, had KyoAni bit the bullet and tried their hands at animating PDA, the feel of the show would be different. It wouldn't so idealized, for one.
__________________
|
2009-01-17, 21:24 | Link #103 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 37
|
Why I think the culture argument holds water: The intended audience gets more implications that the creators are intending to bring out, in contrast to us. That's all I'm trying to say. If we don't get the implications, it's not their fault, this thing has no chance of airing on Western TV anyway.
I kinda agree that its kind of weird of them not even showing a single kiss though. One would be enough, IMO. But I guess beggars can't be choosers. |
2009-01-17, 21:49 | Link #104 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
|
Well, I do agree a little bit with Chibi here. The paceing does seem wierd to me since I've played the game and I keep seeing a bunch of stuff cut out XD, however my love for Clannad is too great for me to really get mad at such things.
Well, I'd also recommend Chibi to play the game. There's some really awesome Tomoyo content, and There are tons of moments where Nagisa x Tomoya show just the kind of physical intimacy that Chibi would like. They go from first names, to holding hands, to kissing, to hugging, and it doesn't seem as fast when they get the bomb. Although it was still just as surprising x.x In between all the "OMG CLANNAD IS AWESOME" going around in my head I also get some "*sigh* why'd they have to skip that, oh well...." I have a beggers can't be choosers attitude to this though haha. |
2009-01-17, 22:01 | Link #105 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2009-01-17, 22:14 | Link #107 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
|
I'm personally somewhere in the middle somewhere. I find it much more difficult for a story, much more an animated one, to imply and reflect physical affection without even showing it. The ability to imply that there is something in there that runs deep and true, without actually showing it, but proving to the viewer that it does exist is hard in any medium.
That said, they did cut out a few from the game, most notably the kissing scene. A personal romantic bias on my part, but I'd also like to see some of the scenes animated. The pacing did rush a few things in this episode, the gap between sex and actual conception and implantation of an ovum can go for a bit over a week. While I really enjoyed them holding hands in their sleep, we really COULD use a more intimate scene or two. But of course, considering the events that would happen 2-3 episodes from now, I have an inkling that the studio will give us something, at least one.
__________________
|
2009-01-17, 22:19 | Link #109 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-01-17, 22:23 | Link #110 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
|
I'm almost pretty sure the calendar in the game was off at this point. Then again I don't think there was a calendar in the GUI during much of the entire After Story...
Edit - Yeah I just checked, no calendar where it was in the School arcs. I don't know why they actually removed it in the first place, sort of reduced the presence of time in the game. Also yeah the kissing scene was a premarital event, but my point is that it could be done pretty much anytime after the School Arcs at is was... bah it's a spoiler, but it can be inserted anytime during AS as it was something of an independent event.
__________________
|
2009-01-17, 23:02 | Link #112 |
The Terror of Death
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: behind you...
|
i got it from animea if you're interested though it's a real pain in the arse to dl and patch it without it freaking out and then u have to re-dl everything. In the end i think it's totally worth it
__________________
|
2009-01-17, 23:05 | Link #113 |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
|
Time for a little Social Psychology.
According to Robert Sternburg's triangular theory of love*, love within the context of interpersonal relationships are characterized by three different factors; Intimacy - feelings of closeness, connectedness, and bondedness. Passion - drives that leads to romance, physical attraction, and sexual consummation Commitment - the decision to remain with another in the short term, and the shared achievements and plans made with that other in the long term. The “type” of love a couple experiences depends on the strengths of these factors relative to each other. In the case of the Okazakis, their relationship may be categorized as companionate love, which "is an intimate, non-passionate type of love that is stronger than friendship because of the element of long-term commitment. Sexual desire is not an element of companionate love. This type of love is often found in marriages in which the passion has gone out of the relationship but a deep affection and commitment remain." Considering that the Okazakis were shown as not particularly "physical" to begin with, I'd dare say what they have is this form of love, instead of the "impossibility" that a few others here see it as. Of course, I'd dare say just one or two scenes of them hugging or kissing wouldn't hurt either....although I like to think of it this way; give the two some privacy, lol. * Sternberg, R. J. (1988). The Triangle of Love: Intimacy, Passion, Commitment. New York: Basic Books. ISBN 0-465-08746-9. |
2009-01-17, 23:33 | Link #114 |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
|
Hmm... companionate love is normally a stage matured relationships go through, It is also often found in deep friendships, and, like the article says, in true family relationships. However it would be a little surreal to ask that type of relationship considering what we have seen from the Okazaki's. . Chemically speaking, love between a male and a female in its early stages is nothing more than the byproduct of high levels of testosterone . Namely physical attraction. Completely excluding this factor is what you'd expect from pastoral poetry, not from magical realism.
As such, I doubt you will be able to explain their behavior through real life sociology and psychology. Note, I am not saying that it is not companionate love, because it is. I am not challenging that. What I am questioning is the context and its subsequent conclusion we are being presented with.. Given the development the characters have been given, the result we have seen through the Anime is not what one would expect from the genre the series has established into. It should NOT be companionate love. In truth, it is little more than the animation studio own take of the story. Artistic license.
__________________
|
2009-01-18, 00:40 | Link #115 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
|
One of my psychology professors used to say that despite the advances in the field, psychology will never ever truly explain the intricacies of the human mind and human relationships.
Not to say that it is useless, but it might be incorrect and maybe unfair to simply categorize human mental process and behavior to certain labels. And yes there is a biological basis for intimacy and love as reflected by increases in neurotransmitters and androgen hormones, but medical science has yet yo explain a biochemical basis for love beyond a physiological response. Love seems to exist and reflect even when homeostasis is the same for everyone else, and medicine might never fully explain this.
__________________
|
2009-01-18, 01:51 | Link #116 |
Screenshot Fiend
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Interesting psych discussion going on regarding the nature of Tomoya's and Nagisa's relationship -- I haven't watched this ep yet, but I've heard enough about the bombshell to go o.O myself many times over.
...Still can't quite believe it. Wonder if that'll change after I watch the ep? XD |
2009-01-18, 03:24 | Link #117 | ||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
It turned off during a lot of the other routes too, so... Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
2009-01-18, 04:37 | Link #118 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
|
Just watched the episode.
First of all, Akio needs his own show. When it come to being serious and advancing the story (i.e. The way he acted at the end of Nagisa's arc during the first season) he leaves much to be desired, but when he's purely there for comedy, he's gold! Also, lol @ the defending of Tomoya and Nagisa's underdeveloped and rushed relationship. I love all the psychology discussion and trying to defend their relationship by practically claiming their relationship is so innocent and pure that we don't need to see anything intimate. The fact is, Naisa may be shy, but she does crave physical intimacy. Even if it's only holding hands, she shows that she wants to be closer to Tomoya. Whether the show shows it or not, one can infer that she wants to take it further than that. On the other hand, Tomoya is a guy. He has his awesome relationship with his High School sweetheart, but he's still a guy and still wants some. Culture is irrelevant. KyoAni could have at least dropped some hints. My biggest problem, however, remains to be the pacing. Let me put it this way. In the last 5 episodes Tomoya finished his final year of High School, worked at the bakery, moved out into his own apartment, got another job, supported Nagisa as she endured another year of school, dealt with his Dad's latest issue, listened to Yusuke's past, proposed to Nagisa, got Akio's blessing, held a graduation type ceremony for Nagisa, made their marriage official, moved Nagisa in, watched Nagisa get herself a job, and finally got Nagisa pregnant. I'm not sure of the timeline but it has to be around 2 total years from Tomoya graduating to Nagisa getting pregnant right? On the other hand, from episodes 4-9, the same amount of episodes as my previous example, we were pretty much treated with Fuko basically creating wedding invitations, attending a fake class led by Sanae, and attending her sister's wedding. All over a very short amount of time. Do the events in those two examples deserve the same amount of screen time? I don't think so. You could probably say the same when comparing it to Kotomi's arc. It just seems like KyoAni didn't think things through well. Or they're just nuts and believe carving starfish is worth as much time as Tomoya and Nagisa entering adulthood and starting their lives/family together. You know, the relationship that is supposed to be the meat of the story! No matter how the series finishes, I'll always look at Clannad as wasted potential. From both the original story creators, Key, and the animators, KyoAni. Both groups were coming off similar efforts with their previous works (i.e. Air & Kanon), yet both seemed to lose focus along the way. Shame really, like I said, there was a lot of potential here. P.S. Anyone who bashed the Yuuichi/Ayu relationship/kiss better not be defending the development of this relationship! |
2009-01-18, 05:29 | Link #120 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
Quote:
After Story, the game's After Story, is paced similar to this, i.e. much faster than the School Life routes. Probably because a lot less happens in Tomoya's day to day life. KyoAni is just following the game, although they are still cutting out a lot... but that has nothing to do with the pacing of the story. There really isn't any other way they can do it... |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|