One Piece - Chapter 698 [manga]

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by marvelB

^Thing is, the DF encyclopedia was something we've known about since the very first chapter. Lucky Roux (the fat guy from Shanks' crew) even showed Luffy a picture of the rubber fruit from that book shortly after the fruit in question was eaten. And that's not to mention that Sanji even said he read the encyclopedia himself at one point (it was during the Thriller Bark arc, when he told Absalom that he knew about the invisibility fruit through that book). So yeah, it's clearly been indicated that the devil fruits were already being thoroughly researched by the time the series began. Perhaps Vegapunk helped speed up the process sure, but those fruits were most definitely already being studied for quite some time.....

Everything has a beginning
I don't deny the existence of the book or information but there has to be studies and observations to create the book. The only way to create such information that I know of is cataloging every fruit that gets eaten to discover its potential. Meaning that some if not all devil fruits had to been owned by previous owners. Even if it is was long ago. A book about Devil fruits don't appear out of thin air. That book would take decades if not centuries to build. The study on what fruit does what would be based on the life span of that user or information taken from research. You need to know what it looks like and what it does to give it is name. If you miss the look or the abilities it contains then how do you know what does what? Vega Punk is the only guy I could see finding alternative way to identify the fruit. But seeing how the WG is decedents of the people who went to war with the ancients, I would not be surprised if the Devil fruit book and the research is older then Vege Punk. If the book showed you the name and the fruit, did it show the abilities too? Black Beard wanted that fruit because of the abilities it had. Did he see the fruit once in action or was it all in the book? Did Thatch find the fruit or kill the guy who had the fruit? The question still stands, who are the previous owners then?

[bonsobon]

After what we've seen happen in this arc, can there be any doubt now that the Shichibukai are stronger than vice admirals?

[paradox13]

After what we've seen happen in this arc, can there be any doubt now that the Shichibukai are stronger than vice admirals?

Why do people always generalize?

Some Vice Admirals are stronger than some of the Shichibukai. Vergo > Crocodile, Garp > Jinbei

Some Shichibukai are stronger than some of the Vice Admirals. Mihawk > Ronse

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

The shichibukai and vice admirals are two groups with great variances in power amongst its members. It really depends on match ups here.

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by marvelB

^Thing is, the DF encyclopedia was something we've known about since the very first chapter. Lucky Roux (the fat guy from Shanks' crew) even showed Luffy a picture of the rubber fruit from that book shortly after the fruit in question was eaten. And that's not to mention that Sanji even said he read the encyclopedia himself at one point (it was during the Thriller Bark arc, when he told Absalom that he knew about the invisibility fruit through that book). So yeah, it's clearly been indicated that the devil fruits were already being thoroughly researched by the time the series began. Perhaps Vegapunk helped speed up the process sure, but those fruits were most definitely already being studied for quite some time.....

I actually use to think one of the reasons Shanks valued that fruit was because he knew it was the gomu gomu fruit and that was Roger's old fruit. Hence why after seeing Luffy eat it and express himself like Roger did why he gave him the straw hat... But the message Roger left in Skypiea etched in the old language really indicates some crazy haki or a fruit ability so I wasn't so sure anymore..

Incidentally its interesting to note that Shanks his crew where likely developing their skills while having their base in Luffy's hometown before heading out for their journey to the new world...that was their "2 year" time skip...

[marvelB]

Honestly, I wouldn't lump in Garp with the rest of the vice admirals in the first place..... he's too much of a special case for that. He's more around the level of admiral/fleet admiral than anything.



As far as my opinion on the possible Dofla vs. Aokiji battle goes..... personally, I'm with the others who believe they either won't fight at all, or if they DO clash, it'll be a very brief skirmish. After all, taking on a former admiral would be a huge waste of precious time and energy for Dofla considering that he still has less than a day left to hunt down the allied pirates.....

[bonsobon]

Originally Posted by marvelB

As far as my opinion on the possible Dofla vs. Aokiji battle goes..... personally, I'm with the others who believe they either won't fight at all, or if they DO clash, it'll be a very brief skirmish. After all, taking on a former admiral would be a huge waste of precious time and energy for Dofla considering that he still has less than a day left to hunt down the allied pirates.....

I'm not so sure about that. While you're right about Doflamingo not having much time to hunt down the Sunny, I doubt Aokiji is just going to let him walk away that easily after what happened to his friend Smoker without some sort of retaliation in mind. If they do fight Doflamingo might not be in any condition to hunt down Law afterwards.

As an aside for being a closed off country the citizens of Wano sure roam far and wide don't they?

[Tommy]

Poor Smoker... He's starting to remind me of Renji from Bleach.

[mrShady]

Originally Posted by golgo13

I actually use to think one of the reasons Shanks valued that fruit was because he knew it was the gomu gomu fruit and that was Roger's old fruit. Hence why after seeing Luffy eat it and express himself like Roger did why he gave him the straw hat... But the message Roger left in Skypiea etched in the old language really indicates some crazy haki or a fruit ability so I wasn't so sure anymore..

Incidentally its interesting to note that Shanks his crew where likely developing their skills while having their base in Luffy's hometown before heading out for their journey to the new world...that was their "2 year" time skip...

I doubt it and would really dislike it as well. Luffy is Luffy not Roger incarnated, the straw hat being originally Roger's was already bad enough.
Also nobody ever mentioned Roger having a devil fruit and even if he had 1 it would be big ass plot hole if it was the rubber fruit. It's impossible that nobody would mention that Luffy has the same devil fruit as the pirate king.

Also Shanks was most probably a yonkou by the time he meets Luffy. His looks haven't changed much since that very 1st chapter (he already had those 3 scars he only looks more muscular nowadays).

[khoa1708]

maybe this comrade of Kinemon will be the new crew member

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by The Small One

There is still another possibility: The book could have been written by the very person who created the fruits!
I think it's safe to assume, that the fruits aren't a natural occurence and probably they have something to do with the void century. Since we now know, that they can be made artifically, we should consider, that all of them were made by someone.

Relics of the Ancients?
That was exactly what I was thinking has well. My theory is that the ancients built the fruits. They built the super weapons and the indestructible Poneglyph. So I do not see the Devil fruits beyond there scope. Also Vega Punk has been able to reverse engineer it and other fruit capability( Like Kizaru's laser). I personaly do not think the WG built the Devil Fruit. Reason because they have vega punk trying to reverse engineer it. That action alone means one thing, it is not their technology.

Theory
The thing supporting the theory is the war during the Void Century. WG was known has the ancient alliance or the twenty kingdoms. I personally think the Ancients were very advance and the 20 Kingdoms primitive compared to the Ancients. The 20 Kingdoms had one thing on their side and that was numbers. Alone they could not do it but together they would have the numbers on there side and the chance. What ever kind of dispute or misunderstanding happened it pitted Alliance(WG) against the Ancients(Possibly the ancestors of the D.). In order to compensate for the number disadvantage the Ancients created the devil powers and the ancient weapons to even the odds. Something went wrong in that war that led to their defeat. So during the final months or days of the war they created the Poneglyphs to record the history and the truth. The question is did they create the devil fruit to store the power during the war has a safety measure to keep the powers from the enemy or after it was clear they were going to lose?

Crazy
You know I was thinking what if the weakness of the devil fruits like water, sea stone, and other unknown weakness were placed in the devil powers or they dumb down some of the fruits capabilities by the creators has another safety measure. For example Croc is a logia, but he is missing one of his hand. What if the logia power under the creator could recover lost limb? Or there is another level beyond the awaken Zoan form. The existence of a water logia would no longer be contradicting. That would suck knowing the full power of some if not all the devil fruits powers are handicapped. I can not wait till Oda reveals Raftel, place were the ancient Kingdom was, and Vega Punk.

[Spammowarrior]

Originally Posted by mrShady

I doubt it and would really dislike it as well. Luffy is Luffy not Roger incarnated, the straw hat being originally Roger's was already bad enough.
Also nobody ever mentioned Roger having a devil fruit and even if he had 1 it would be big ass plot hole if it was the rubber fruit. It's impossible that nobody would mention that Luffy has the same devil fruit as the pirate king.

well, when Roger's crew finds the bara bara no mi, everybody says something among the lines "I heard it's just a legend". That tells me two things:
1) Roger either didn't have a devil fruit or he rarely used it (but even then, to think his own crew members didn't know about it? hard to believe)
2) Devil fruits were very rare just 20 years ago, since even Roger's crew, and we can assume they were well into the grand line, never saw one.

another possibility for 2 is it's just a plot hole, because Oda never intended for devil fruits to be so common

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by mrShady

I doubt it and would really dislike it as well. Luffy is Luffy not Roger incarnated, the straw hat being originally Roger's was already bad enough.
Also nobody ever mentioned Roger having a devil fruit and even if he had 1 it would be big ass plot hole if it was the rubber fruit. It's impossible that nobody would mention that Luffy has the same devil fruit as the pirate king.

Also Shanks was most probably a yonkou by the time he meets Luffy. His looks haven't changed much since that very 1st chapter (he already had those 3 scars he only looks more muscular nowadays).

Ya I mean the hints of Roger's power it don't allude to the gomu gomu fruit. No one ever mentioned anything about the strawhat so not mentioning the devil fruit isn't really a big deal... Even Roger having a D came later on..

It's possible Shanks was a Yonkou, we haven't heard of many other Yonkous or who came before the current ones, wouldn't be surprised if Oda throws some in later on though. A Yonkou going back to East Blue to train for a year or so and then head back to the new world, plausible if he was a "weak" yonkou or something.. not sure about this.

[mrShady]

Originally Posted by Spammowarrior

well, when Roger's crew finds the bara bara no mi, everybody says something among the lines "I heard it's just a legend". That tells me two things:
1) Roger either didn't have a devil fruit or he rarely used it (but even then, to think his own crew members didn't know about it? hard to believe)
2) Devil fruits were very rare just 20 years ago, since even Roger's crew, and we can assume they were well into the grand line, never saw one.

another possibility for 2 is it's just a plot hole, because Oda never intended for devil fruits to be so common

Plothole is my best guess. It's really early in the series so I doubt Oda had it all written down.

Originally Posted by golgo13

Ya I mean the hints of Roger's power it don't allude to the gomu gomu fruit. No one ever mentioned anything about the strawhat so not mentioning the devil fruit isn't really a big deal... Even Roger having a D came later on..

It's possible Shanks was a Yonkou, we haven't heard of many other Yonkous or who came before the current ones, wouldn't be surprised if Oda throws some in later on though. A Yonkou going back to East Blue to train for a year or so and then head back to the new world, plausible if he was a "weak" yonkou or something.. not sure about this.

It can always be retconned, but that would really make Luffy a Roger clone. But yes not impossible more like improbable, it detracts from Luffy as a character and it introduces plotholes.

I base Shanks being a yonkou on his conversation with Mihawk who said it was weird for such a great pirate as Shanks to lose an arm in the weakest sea. And also his 3rd scar which signifies his battle with Blackbeard that suggests they met in the new world (Whitebeard stayed in the NW and Blackbeard was still a member back then). Of course this doesn't 100% proof he was a yonkou and it's just my assumption but it's hard to find definite answers in One Piece.

Any way I doubt training in east blue would help. It might be that they were just taking a vacation, they might also been looking for treasure. What we know is that they used Luffy's hometown as a base and set sail for small periods of time, but it's never mentioned why.

[Spammowarrior]

Originally Posted by mrShady

Plothole is my best guess. It's really early in the series so I doubt Oda had it all written down.

yeah, but I think that if Roger had a Devil Fruit, Oda would have decided from the beginning (even more so if it was the Gomu Gomu no mi). So, him having a fruit ability would seem really stretched to me.

[mrShady]

Originally Posted by Spammowarrior

yeah, but I think that if Roger had a Devil Fruit, Oda would have decided from the beginning (even more so if it was the Gomu Gomu no mi). So, him having a fruit ability would seem really stretched to me.

The plothole I meant is about the devil fruits not having a solid place in the story just yet, at least not by that time. So Oda had yet to fully work on the devil fruit concept and how it came to be.
But I do agree that Roger having a fruit is stretching it.

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by mrShady

I base Shanks being a yonkou on his conversation with Mihawk who said it was weird for such a great pirate as Shanks to lose an arm in the weakest sea. And also his 3rd scar which signifies his battle with Blackbeard that suggests they met in the new world (Whitebeard stayed in the NW and Blackbeard was still a member back then). Of course this doesn't 100% proof he was a yonkou and it's just my assumption but it's hard to find definite answers in One Piece.

Any way I doubt training in east blue would help. It might be that they were just taking a vacation, they might also been looking for treasure. What we know is that they used Luffy's hometown as a base and set sail for small periods of time, but it's never mentioned why.

It is hard to know, there are a few clues. Shanks conversation with Whitebeard refers to battles they fought while Shanks was a part of Roger's crew. Blackbeard was part of Whitebeards crew for "decades". It isn't clear whether he got the scar while a crew member, since his left eye is covered in two flashback instances of him being present at Roger's death, but its likely. Shanks alluded that Blackbeard was much stronger than he was leading on while they battled. He didn't have to be a Yonkou for Mihawk to believe he was a great pirate, they are 4 yrs apart in age and likely knew of each other as the "supernovas" of their time.

Why he was using Luggy's hometown as a base, besides playing role model, is a mystery. My guess is training to become a yonkou.

Could all be a plot hole since some major details are in chapter 1of698...

[Dengar]

Personally I don't really care much for plot holes in works that span several YEARS. I just accept their presence and move on.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by golgo13

Why he was using Luggy's hometown as a base, besides playing role model, is a mystery. My guess is training to become a yonkou.

Most likely he was on Dawn Island looking for his former Captain's son: Ace.

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Personally I don't really care much for plot holes in works that span several YEARS. I just accept their presence and move on.

Yep IF it is one, thats always tricky with Oda..

Originally Posted by james0246

Most likely he was on Dawn Island looking for his former Captain's son: Ace.

Thats an interesting idea.

One more thing.. Given the circumstances of Law's plans, the Strawhat alliance, the Kid/Apoo/Hawkins alliance, Donflamingo's debt to Kaidou, Luffy's threat to Big Mom and the bomb in the tamatebako box... is it possible that somehow Kaido will be pitted to fight against Big Mom?