Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Pffttt.... The only one who can ruin a fictional story and held responsible for it is the writer. Fictional characters like Lacus & Kira have no power to alter Destiny’s story to their liking. Frankly, you blaming fictional characters for a lackluster story is eye-rolling at best and a ridiculous expression of hating at worst .

don't bother
you are talking to person who said that Shin and lunamaria love is stronger than Kira and Lacus because their voice actor marry each other...
(real people =/= faction characters)

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

don't bother
you are talking to person who said that Shin and lunamaria love is stronger than Kira and Lacus because their voice actor marry each other...
(real people =/= faction characters)

Pshaw, even those in Destiny's development said Shinn x Lunamaria's love was the greatest and so did many fans, especially when the marriage happened.

You underestimate how much of an effect a VA can have when it comes towards fleshing out and bringing a character alive. That and Shinn and Lunamaria's VA's already had a past of playing as Love Interests so it ended up working very well between them, as they were very comfortable working together in such roles, to salvage things that bad writing would have ruined without them.

That and Lacus is the girl Kira settled with, Kira's true love was and always will be Flay while Shinn at least never saw Stellar as a love interest but as a little sister due to how much she reminded him of his dead sister.

Had Flay lived and returned to him there's no way Kira would have ever gotten with Lacus. He wouldn't even let her kiss him at the end of SEED as he was preparing to launch out to fight Rau, ZAFT, and save Flay. They also don't even share the same bed in Destiny nor do they kiss or the such, they're like robots because Kira is a broken man that settled.

Athrun on the other hand than let Cagalli know that he loved her very much so and that Lacus and him were never a thing.

[Washu-Chan]

Speaking about Fukuda and Star Wars, he is becoming George Lucas (post-1997) in the following ways:

• Greedo Nicol swinging first in the HD Remaster.
• Had this continued on, Kira would have been in-line with his Destiny incarnation, much like how Darth Vader's "NOOOOO~!" being added in the Blu-Ray version put him in-line with his prequel incarnation as "Whine-akin Skywalker".

As for comparing Shinn to Anakin, the problem with that is in Anakin's case, he has to become Darth Vader in order for the Original Trilogy to happen.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Speaking about Fukuda and Star Wars, he is becoming George Lucas (post-1997) in the following ways:

• Greedo Nicol swinging first in the HD Remaster.
• Had this continued on, Kira would have been in-line with his Destiny incarnation, much like how Darth Vader's "NOOOOO~!" being added in the Blu-Ray version put him in-line with his prequel incarnation as "Whine-akin Skywalker".

As for comparing Shinn to Anakin, the problem with that is in Anakin's case, he has to become Darth Vader in order for the Original Trilogy to happen.

LOL bringing the Han/Greedo debate into a Gundam forum, the comparison is sorta irrelevant as Kira still kills Nicol, no matter how you look at it


@Earlier posts by Destined Fate and Admiral Larson:

While you maintain it was all the fans fault in Japan due to their "Whining", are not the directors just as much at fault for GIVING IN to complaints they should not even be listening to? Because in the end it does not matter what the fans say but what the directors/writers decide to do since they hold the power to make changes at their leisure

[Admiral Larsen]

Originally Posted by Skye629

LOL bringing the Han/Greedo debate into a Gundam forum, the comparison is sorta irrelevant as Kira still kills Nicol, no matter how you look at it


@Earlier posts by Destined Fate and Admiral Larson:

While you maintain it was all the fans fault in Japan due to their "Whining", are not the directors just as much at fault for GIVING IN to complaints they should not even be listening to? Because in the end it does not matter what the fans say but what the directors/writers decide to do since they hold the power to make changes at their leisure

Both sides are responsible for this result, the fans saying it out loud and the director listening to them.

[Destined_Fate]

No, the fans in Japan shared a big part of the blame but the Director and his wife are the main ones at fault as they wanted Kira and Lacus to be them and they decided to toss out integrity to turn Destiny into their little power trip fantasy where they're always right and never wrong via Kira and Lacus.

They could have refused and maintained the course but they chose not to and Destiny suffered for it and those that whined and moaned about Kira and Lacus quickly turned on them as they felt Destiny wasn't "good" even with them now stealing the spotlight. They just weren't going to be appeased as they, like nostalgia fans, see things through rose colored lenses and when they got what they wanted they hated it as it wasn't as they thought it would have been.

[The American Average]

Did any other gundam series suffer due to fan requests and writers liking other character over the ones that should be Main character, seriously? i don't think there is any Gundam series to pander to the fans like Seed/Destiny did. i could be wrong though

[Destined_Fate]

Rise of internet awareness around that time didn't help matters.

Think how badly Zeta Gundam would have turned out if Amuro fans had the power of the internet on their side at that time and whined as much as Kira and Lacus fans. It would have hurt things greatly even if the Director refused to appease them as they have a story they want to tell which ended up being one of the greatest stories in Gundam.

Anyway I hope they change the Remaster ending to have Cagalli there and not Lunamaria's sister.

[Admiral Larsen]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Rise of internet awareness around that time didn't help matters.

Think how badly Zeta Gundam would have turned out if Amuro fans had the power of the internet on their side at that time and whined as much as Kira and Lacus fans. It would have hurt things greatly even if the Director refused to appease them as they have a story they want to tell which ended up being one of the greatest stories in Gundam.

Anyway I hope they change the Remaster ending to have Cagalli there and not Lunamaria's sister.

Unfortunately they would IMO have to do more changes than that to have Cagalli be there instead of Meryin, mainly stopping the crying fits of Cagalli and having her engage in battle even against Athrun (which would require way too high a budget than what is being committed to the SEED Destiny remaster).

[kaito-kid]

*Reads the latest few posts*



My Bullshit-O-Meter is going off like a motherf*cker! But I don't care anymore.
Since Animesuki doesn't have a policy on bullshit, continue discussing your made up stories.

[Destined_Fate]

Well special has Cagalli letting Athrun by her Admiral to command her fleet.

Such a shame, that girl is so out of place there and seems stalkerish due to Athrun mending fences with Caglli and getting back with her after things had died down. Not even Meer was that bad. >_>

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Did any other gundam series suffer due to fan requests and writers liking other character over the ones that should be Main character, seriously? i don't think there is any Gundam series to pander to the fans like Seed/Destiny did. i could be wrong though

Nope, none to the extent of DESTINY

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Did any other gundam series suffer due to fan requests and writers liking other character over the ones that should be Main character, seriously? i don't think there is any Gundam series to pander to the fans like Seed/Destiny did. i could be wrong though

What's your source on this pandering to the fans? How do you know Destiny didn't end up, for the most part, the way it was originally intended?

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

What's your source on this pandering to the fans? How do you know Destiny didn't end up, for the most part, the way it was originally intended?

my god dude, you really think they didn't fan pander when compared to the other gundam series? fine, what was the point of bring in Miriallia Haw? she didn't need to come back to the AA or even show up, but did. The fans wanted to see more Seed characters maybe?


Also i said

Originally Posted by The American Average

Did any other gundam series suffer due to fan requests and writers liking other character over the ones that should be Main character, seriously? i don't think there is any Gundam series to pander to the fans like Seed/Destiny did. i could be wrong though

but this debate is going to lead to nowhere, it'll end up as "this persons word, against that persons word"

[S.Freedom]

Originally Posted by The American Average

fine, what was the point of bring in Miriallia Haw?

Well gee aside from the fact she was Kira's friend I'm not sure. With that attitude, why not ask ZOMG why did they bring back Kira's mom. They only brought her back so they could have a MILF or some junk.

[I Fail at Life]

"B-B-B-B- Because I didn't like/care (not hate, maybe) for Kira as a character in SEED, b-b-b- but really liked or wanted to like Shinn what I couldn't in Kira, b-b- but then Kira took over and that's my shallow reason"


There's the answer. If someone does not believe this is anywhere close to the truth, then give me another reason.
__________________

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Well gee aside from the fact she was Kira's friend I'm not sure. With that attitude, why not ask ZOMG why did they bring back Kira's mom. They only brought her back so they could have a MILF or some junk.

Miriallia was a reporter/photographer during Destiny right? Why she drop that to help Kira, also weren't Kuzzey and Sai (maybe not Sai) friends of Kira why didn't they show up? Now if Miriallia kept doing reporter Photographing stuff for the war i'd totally buy her coming aboard the AA for that. But so, Kira asks you just go on board a ship that killed boyfriend and nearly yourself killed you and just hop on board for another ride?

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

"B-B-B-B- Because I didn't like/care (not hate, maybe) for Kira as a character in SEED, b-b-b- but really liked or wanted to like Shinn what I couldn't in Kira, b-b- but then Kira took over and that's my shallow reason"

There's the answer. If someone does not believe this anywhere close to the truth, then give me another reason.
__________________

what i don't get the whole "B-b-b-but" thing? Kira was fine to me, i kinda liked him more in Destiny than in Seed, I just couldn't stand Lacus. =/

[I Fail at Life]

what i don't get the whole "B-b-b-but" thing? Kira was fine to me, i kinda liked him more in Destiny than in Seed, I just couldn't stand Lacus. =/

It's meant to imitate someone stuttering in this case the (haters). What I wrote was a reason for why some people would say the show was pandering.

[Aquaman OS]

Storywise Lacus was leaving the ship and they needed a bridge bunny to take her spot, so they brought back Mirallia.

Plotwise she explains that she really wanted to see Kira and company anyway but because she was away from Orb doing her job she had no idea where they were until she spotted them during that sea battle. So she just took the chance to join up with them. If she'd been nearby when they left Orb she'd probably have joined then. In fact the Special Edition, she's IS on the ship from the start when they leave Orb, although she's somehow still around for Athrun to run into later on.

Sai was supposed to come back too, but his VA was unavailable directing a film, which is I guess why that Glasses crewman guy shows up again, even though he vanished in Seed after they left the EA.

Kuzzey meanwhile left the ship once they decided to fight against everyone, so they obviously wouldn't call him back to do the same thing again.

And regarding the whining thing. That's just it. Alot of the Destiny haters hated when both sides of the war became genocidal evil, and the heroes and Orb became the savior supermen that were all that was just and good, while Kira became Jesus and stopped killing his enemies. They wanted it to be like UC where it's morally grey and the hero just fights to the end and accepts that war sucks.

So when Destiny started and Zaft was portrayed in a positive though slightly suspicious light, and Shinn was a hot blooded beserker who killed his enemies and Kira and Lacus were nowhere to be seen, fans rejoiced that Seed would finally be like UC and their Jesus antics would be forgotten.

Kira and Lacus promptly showing up, Shinn and Durandal becoming evil and the show essentially saying "No Kira and Lacus's way is the only good way of CE. Everyone else is evil" after 20 eps was probably a massive slap in the face.

And when it came out about the late scripts and everything they somehow came to the conclusion that the show was totally rewritten once Kira shows up.

However since it was the same director and writer, is it really that shocking that what they established as "good" in Seed wouldn't be the same in "destiny"? Especially since it was obviously from the first OP and the preview trailers that Kira and Lacus would be prominant again.

Now you want to see something influence by fans and executive meddling causing massive rewrites? 00 season 2.

[Skye629]

Mirallia also served the function of being the in-between to get Athrun's meeting with Lacus and Kira arranged