Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 26 Discussion / Poll

[ChibiBear]

Originally Posted by Arbane the Terrible

Anyway, now I need to go back and figure out who was lying in each arc, if Kinzo was already dead. At a minimum, Dr. Nanjo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Genji, Kanon, and Shannon. Possibly Kumasawa and Jessica, maybe not Gohda. Probably not any of the people who didn't live on Rokkenjima.

So basically all the people who definitely lied are servants except for Natsuhi and Krauss? And Natsuhi are Krauss are married... Coincidence? Maybe they have some sort of plan or something??

I posted my theory a while ago in the speculation thread but nobody read it lol Now I have more evidence to support my theory with the Kinzo being dead thing...

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

How can Natsuhi be the culprit for EP1 when she was with Battler almost constantly? She's automatically ruled out for every twilight after the 4th. And of course, someone we thought was dead had to have been alive to shoot her at the 9th twilight.

Actually, an addendum: since Natsuhi was apparently killed with a rifle and Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo got their heads smashed, unless the culprit mysteriously switched weapons for some reason, there are two supposedly dead people running around committing murders.

[ChibiBear]

I also highly doubt that Natsuhi is the EP1 culprit/killer, but more than 2 people's corpses have had their heads smashed and were unidentifiable so it's entirely possible (but difficult) for there to be 2 supposedly dead people running around killing people.
In fact, the 6-8th twilights would be near impossible if they weren't killed by a supposedly dead person unless Battler was right, right??

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

So basically all the people who definitely lied are servants except for Natsuhi and Krauss? And Natsuhi are Krauss are married... Coincidence? Maybe they have some sort of plan or something??

I'd be surprised if they didn't have a plan. It doesn't have to even be very complex: "Keep the rest of the family from finding out Kinzo's dead" works as a motivation, even if there wasn't anything suspicious about his death. As Eva and Kyrie pointed out at the start of the 4th arc, as long as nobody knows Kinzo's dead, Krauss is in charge of administering Kinzo's wealth. That, plus wanting to avoid a scandal/police investigation if Kinzo's death WAS suspicious, is plenty of motivation.

Edit: (Of course, then "Beatrice" sends a letter, the murders start, any hope of keeping things covered up goes out the window, and Kinzo's corpse goes in the incinerator.)

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Actually, an addendum: since Natsuhi was apparently killed with a rifle and Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo got their heads smashed, unless the culprit mysteriously switched weapons for some reason, there are two supposedly dead people running around committing murders.

Well, it was Dr. Nanjo who pronounced Kanon dead in the first arc, Battler never saw his body, and we now know Nanjo was lying about ONE person's vital status...

[ChibiBear]

Suspicious Nanjo pronounced the even more suspicious Kanon dead ^^

[sapphirearcz]

We all know we will be disappointed at the end.. too much time wasted and cutting out scenes that supposed to be inside.. Cant we hav ryukishi co-direct in this ><

[Kheve]

Originally Posted by Arbane the Terrible

Sure, let's hear it. It can't be much more ridiculous than small bombs....



I've been working off of the theory that there's different murderers in each arc since fairly early on. But there _might_ be just one planner behind everything--the one who sent the money to Ange and Kumasawa and Nanjo's sons so it would arrive after the murders.

Anyway, now I need to go back and figure out who was lying in each arc, if Kinzo was already dead. At a minimum, Dr. Nanjo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Genji, Kanon, and Shannon. Possibly Kumasawa and Jessica, maybe not Gohda. Probably not any of the people who didn't live on Rokkenjima.

Did anyone else claim to talk to Kinzo? Battler saw him near the end of the second game, but both of them got eaten alive by goatmen shortly afterwards, so I think we can discount that part. Also, _everyone_ at dinner in the 4th game, but Battler had an explanation for that, even if it was a bogus one.

Who sent money and who's nanjo's son?

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Kheve

Who sent money and who's nanjo's son?

Nanjo's son is the doctor Ange interviewed and showed her the envelope with the supsicious contents. The sender's identity is currently unknown.

[Kheve]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

More generally, just because someone knew Kinzo was dead, does that necessarily mean they are the culprit? That would make an awful lot of people accomplices in Episode 1.

Well, arc 1 natsushi obviously putting up an act which was seen by eva (neutral). Natsuhi last adult standing. arc 2 rosa also put up act claiming to be with kinzo in front of family members (neutral). Rosa last adult standing (whose death we were shown only a fantasy scene involving demons n herself not witnessed by others). Arc 3 well we were shown the scene where eva said bye bye to battler n shot him. Eva was definitely last adult standing and was even publicly shown to have survived. So yeah i guess thats my line of reasoning why they are the culprits but it'll really sux if the culprit changes everytime. At least in higurashi the main murderers were the same. Only when theres xtra there is diff murderers. Here if they say theres a diff culprit for every episodes main murders (the epitaph murders) then thats no different from having separate cases ea episode (ala kindaichi/conan) which sort of deviates from higurashis revolutionary storytelling.

[Kheve]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Nanjo's son is the doctor Ange interviewed and showed her the envelope with the supsicious contents. The sender's identity is currently unknown.

Woot i missed that detail!!!! i thought he was just a 'neutral academian who sheds light on case' character. Hahah thx. Gotta rewatch this soon.

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by Kheve

Woot i missed that detail!!!! i thought he was just a 'neutral academian who sheds light on case' character. Hahah thx. Gotta rewatch this soon.

Could be you're confusing him with the Witch Hunt guy Ange talked to.

Kumasawa's son also got the same sort of letter, but never investigated it. This suggests that the murders were premeditated, by someone who had influence off of Rokkenjima. (So, not just Beatrice--disembodied witches have a hard time getting bank accounts. )

[palpatin]

Hmm...Well, sometimes I only thought "this really is crappy" while watching...
But most of the time I waited for Battler to do/say something awesome or to kick Beatrice's ass, like in this episode...
There were also some neat cute and emotional scenes.

So, there will be a second season? What will be its name? *didn't play the visual novels*

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by palpatin

So, there will be a second season? What will be its name? *didn't play the visual novels*

There's a second "season" of the VNs, called "Umineko No Nako Koro Ni Chiru". Whether it'll get animated or not is anyone's guess at this point.

[White Manju Bun]

Well I must say that was .... odd. Wasnt expecting it to end like that. The return of Sakutaro was cute tho :3

Interesting how Lambda said nearly all of Battler's blue truths were wrong yet Beato still was getting pierced, of course she kept saying "Ill give this one to you."

I think I need to read the VN now

[Steampunk Librarian]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

Well I must say that was .... odd. Wasnt expecting it to end like that. The return of Sakutaro was cute tho :3

Interesting how Lambda said nearly all of Battler's blue truths were wrong yet Beato still was getting pierced, of course she kept saying "Ill give this one to you."

I think I need to read the VN now

Usually Beatrice fights the Blue with her Red, but maybe when she has no Red or doesn't feel like using the Red (to kill herself, perhaps?) the Blue is capable of damaging/killing her, because, of course, the Blue are theories that suggest the culprit could kill those on the Island without having to be a Witch. Beatrice's existence could hinge on being able to combat the Blue with the Red.

The Anime does state that the Blue forces the witch to answer with the Red.

[sona-nyl]

I think it was stated as ''the witch have to answer with red otherwise it is a loss for the witch'' so if Beato wanted to die it would be a good strategy not to answer.

Spoiler for VN EP4:

And besides most of Battlers blue truth where denied in red by Lambda in the ????.

[Project_MkUltra]

Not such a good episode, coming from an anime-only viewer. It felt a bit rushed. Is chiru going to be animated?

[Steampunk Librarian]

Originally Posted by Project_MkUltra

Not such a good episode, coming from an anime-only viewer. It felt a bit rushed. Is chiru going to be animated?

I agree. It seemed very anti-climatic. Almost like they rushed

Spoiler for Ep 26:

Ange's death. It seemed like 1 minute she was calm, then the next she is crying and then she dies??? Battler didn't look all that beat up, before she said she was Ange, it seemed like he was going to resume the game? Can someone give a small explanation of why she had to declare herself as his sister?

The Battle of Battler and Beatrice. No Red Text/Blue Text across the screen after a certain point? Many mysteries, to me, seemed to be skipped or sped over -AND- I don't understand why Kinzo was there and why he turned into a DRAGON??? What??? The whole battle seemed pointless except to show how to possibly kill a witch and that Beatrice wants to die for some reason (this is really sudden to me! Another trick??).

After Credits. What kind of influence does Bernkastel and Lambdadelta have over Beatrice's game boards? I have seen Higurashi, so

Spoiler for Higurashi Major Spoilers:

Is this supposed to indicate that Lambdadelta is there representing the Culprit's strong will to commit these crimes to show Battler his sin? Is Bernkastel there to create the miracle in which she can subtly manipulate the gameboard? Afterall, Gretel/Ange shouldn't have been there if the game truly belonged to Beatrice.

So is Beatrice the real gamemaster or are they pieces (the Meta-Beato and Meta-Battler) in a much larger game where Lambdadelta wishes to keep Bernkastel caged for all time? Why does Bernkastel care about winning a game that has nothing to do with her? What does Lambdadelta have to do with anything?

I need to read the visual novels to figure out WTF the end is supposed to be like lol.

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by Steampunk Librarian

Ange's death. It seemed like 1 minute she was calm, then the next she is crying and then she dies??? Battler didn't look all that beat up, before she said she was Ange, it seemed like he was going to resume the game? Can someone give a small explanation of why she had to declare herself as his sister?

The anime really failed at that scene. Battler was saying he couldn't trust anyone when Ange was trying to talk to him (left out from the anime). By revealing she was Ange she could get through to Battler.

Originally Posted by Steampunk Librarian

The Battle of Battler and Beatrice. No Red Text/Blue Text across the screen after a certain point? Many mysteries, to me, seemed to be skipped or sped over -AND- I don't understand why Kinzo was there and why he turned into a DRAGON??? What??? The whole battle seemed pointless except to show how to possibly kill a witch and that Beatrice wants to die for some reason (this is really sudden to me! Another trick??).

Kinzo's appearance there was supposed to represent an obstacle to Battler's theory of an 18th person being the culprit. Until he could prove Kinzo was dead he couldn't put the blame on the unknown person X because of the people limit.

Originally Posted by Steampunk Librarian

After Credits. What kind of influence does Bernkastel and Lambdadelta have over Beatrice's game boards? I have seen Higurashi, so

Spoiler for Higurashi Major Spoilers:

Is this supposed to indicate that Lambdadelta is there representing the Culprit's strong will to commit these crimes to show Battler his sin? Is Bernkastel there to create the miracle in which she can subtly manipulate the gameboard? Afterall, Gretel/Ange shouldn't have been there if the game truly belonged to Beatrice.

So is Beatrice the real gamemaster or are they pieces (the Meta-Beato and Meta-Battler) in a much larger game where Lambdadelta wishes to keep Bernkastel caged for all time? Why does Bernkastel care about winning a game that has nothing to do with her? What does Lambdadelta have to do with anything?

I need to read the visual novels to figure out WTF the end is supposed to be like lol.

Many things are left unexplained in the VN too because the story continues in Chiru. It's always a joy to hear that another person decides to read the VN though.

[Death Header]

I thought that during the course of this series, the potential killers for each of the chapters/parts seemed to be different every time. Since different people survive throughout different chapters, it's rather hard to determine who the true killer is.

As for the whole "magic existing" thing that Beatrice made up, it might not be totally ridiculous to state that magic in this exists to some extent.

Watching this anime gave me a bit more headaches than I'm normally accustomed to imo.