[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Kitsu]

I think it was in the VN, too

[Marion]

It was skipped in the anime though, along with Kanon dropping the fertilizer.

[hirahira]

Originally Posted by Ssol

Was it ever mentioned if Ryukishi is supervising the manga as well? How would they know which foreshadowing hints of the culprit to add?

Here's something he said in an interview

"Recently I've confirmed the draft for Square Enix's manga version of EP1. I was shocked when I read it, and I couldn't help but think, "How can there be so many hints in here?" Spoiler-type dialogues are everywhere (smile).

K: Definitely dialogue you must pay attention to. There are quite a few lines that mirror what's in EP3."

So maybe the manga will be easier than the VN or the anime

[Jan-Poo]

Yeah he said so, and yet nobody has figured out what is there that it is supposed to help.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by hirahira

Here's something he said in an interview

"Recently I've confirmed the draft for Square Enix's manga version of EP1. I was shocked when I read it, and I couldn't help but think, "How can there be so many hints in here?" Spoiler-type dialogues are everywhere (smile).

K: Definitely dialogue you must pay attention to. There are quite a few lines that mirror what's in EP3."

So maybe the manga will be easier than the VN or the anime

Keep in mind that's probably just for the Japanese version.

[Renall]

Regarding the ep2 prologue: You have to consider what the witch means to the servants of the island. Kanon and Shannon are too young to have ever met the "real" Beatrice whose image inspired the portrait. To them, Beatrice might represent something it doesn't to others (the semi-benevolent, semi-dangerous invisible master of the island).

Bear in mind that many of the servants would have a very different view. Genji and Kumasawa almost certainly met or knew about the human Beatrice. To them, the portrait represents a real person who was important to Kinzo, and the witch legend is probably a convenient cover story they use to dodge questions of who the person was.

The entire ep2 prologue is a bit suspicious in a variety of ways though, so even that degree of analysis may be questionable.

As for Kanon: I got the impression Battler hadn't met him before, but somehow impressed him by actually taking the time to help him. This confused Kanon for some reason. Because it shattered his self-image? Because it convinced him the entire family wasn't worthless? Who knows.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

I think, I finally understand Shannon's message. "Without love it can't be seen."

I'm almost certain this is referring to....the magic scenes. Because if we think like Kanon does and look at such a thing superficially, all we are going to see is magic and monsters fighting with the heroic servants. Much like how Kanon just sees a gray ocean, he doesn't see the metaphor, much like we aren't seeing the truth behind each and every encounter. What reinforces my belief in this is the swords, Kanon and the Goat Butlers wield. All this time in the Meta-World we see the red and blue truths clashing repeatedly what if in real life this is what's happening in the magic scene between Kanon and the Culprit.

The murderer confronts Kanon and Jessica about the possibility of Kanon and/or Jessica being the murderer/s of the six in the first night, Kanon denies this with a valid excuse. The murderer creates another theory, (blue truth/swords/goat butler whatever you want to call it in the magic version) and Kanon again denies with a valid and plausible excuse. The Killer makes a third or fourth theory and this is what causes Kanon to become angry, the killer is either forced to defend her/his self or goaded Kanon into attacking. Either way before the killer can deal the deathblow to Kanon, Jessica whom the killer thought was incapacitated takes the blow originally meant for Kanon. Kanon is angered and the killer had to kill kanon. This way the victim becomes the killer, and the killer has a genuine reason to deny involvement in the killings of the first six people. Another way to look at this is the killer meant to only injure Kanon to the point of incapacitating him, but Jessica got in the way and made a simple stunning hit become a fatal one. Kanon is angered greatly and the killer is forced to defend him/her self from Kanon's rage. Again making the victim become a killer.

[Yukkureimu]

Well, looking back at it, the manga is actually bringing up important points that really seemed insignificant before.

Spoiler for For example, also ep 5 spoilers:

http://www.onemanga.com/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni/2/37/

If this is correct, then this means that Kinzo never saw the portrait completed, or even saw the epitaph set up, since it would have been roughly around the time that he died. It's probably a good idea to re-read ep 1.

Edit: Never mind, it was 2 years ago according to the text in the VN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsIAV...E6F83&index=15 So Kinzo was still alive then. But it's still a good idea to go back and look at insignificant things, since many of those things may have a different meaning now that we have new information. Anti-mystery at its finest.

[Ithekro]

There is a version of the painting and epitaph in Kinzo's study (or at least it seems that way in the animated version of Game One). Maybe those were done first for approval, or maybe even done long ago with the larger version in the hallway being done later, after he found out he was dying, since that would make some sense. That way others could behold Beatrice and try to solve his little puzzle without he himself having to part with the orignals...or enter his study.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

There is a version of the painting and epitaph in Kinzo's study (or at least it seems that way in the animated version of Game One). Maybe those were done first for approval, or maybe even done long ago with the larger version in the hallway being done later, after he found out he was dying, since that would make some sense. That way others could behold Beatrice and try to solve his little puzzle without he himself having to part with the orignals...or enter his study.

I say Battler's sin has to do with the Epitaph's creation. Kinzo may have created it so even if he died, Battler would still be able to figure it out. Of course, other people got a whole different notion and started killing everyone.

With Battler as the head, he could easily solve the problems of Jessica/Kanon and George/Shannon, as well as the parents. Of course, he failed to do that in EP5, hence some murders still occurred.

[sword5880]

I just hope that Kinzo is not Battler...
It may seem stupid but Kinzo wear a same white suit like Battler and if Battler wear a same Mantuea as Kinzo, then Battler will have same outfit as Kinzo and in the OP of Ep5 I see Battler Image and at the back there is Kinzo's Image, this can have many meaning.
And I think I heard that Kinzo also use phase "It's all useless" same as Battler in Ep 5.

[Ithekro]

That would suggest that there is no Battler, as he's dead, and Ange is on the island instead.

[sword5880]

^ ^ ha ha maybe it is
But lets say that Battler is homunculus made by Kinzo. But this is only possible in Beato's World...

[Ithekro]

Damn....now I half want to make a Wayne's World reference.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Damn....now I half want to make a Wayne's World reference.

I was thinking Futurama.

Battler is his own grandfather!

[Antera Caramichael]

Well, there is many characters who say that Battler ressemble more and more to Kinzo... by his stubborness ^^"

[Renall]

Things Battler and Kinzo share:

1) Both wear white. Nobody else in the family has such a close outfit match.

2) Some similar expressions, both spoken and portrait-wise; there's a particular portrait only Kinzo and Battler have. They use a few of the same lines, and Kinzo randomly uses English during the Goldsmith scenes in ep4 much like Battler's english expressions.

3) Battler is said to physically resemble Kinzo in his youth. They both appear to be particularly tall as well, especially compared to other characters. Kinzo's portraits regularly clip off the top of the screen, and he has barely any hair (Natsuhi's portrait does too, but her actual HEAD is quite a bit lower). Battler and Gohda are pretty close to the same portrait height, but nearly everyone else is much shorter.

4) Metaphorically and metaphysically, Battler and Kinzo are equated. Kinzo is said to have no magical power, yet he became a powerful magician. Battler has massive magic resistance, yet he also becomes a sorcerer (maybe). Beatrice calls Kinzo a phoenix, and the same is said of Battler.

5) The mistaken vision of Kinzo that Battler sees when he's on his way to finding the gold is the only time an apparition of Kinzo appeared to the person who found the gold, at least that we know of, and the only time Kinzo seems to have acknowledged anyone as his successor. Essentially, then, you could say Kinzo metaphorically approves of Battler taking the headship (even though we can't say he REALLY does since he's dead and the only things we have out of his mouth about Battler are unreliable).

[Antera Caramichael]

Well, that's it: Battler is Kinzo's clone created in order for him to become immortal mouahaha.

2) Furthermore, Kinzo's is fond of Western World, like the mansion and garden show it. He also loves Western Film, the Winchesters were supposed to have been brought because of this^^.

I have nothing else to add.

[Ithekro]

That would imply this is an actual time loop...of sorts.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Renall

Things Battler and Kinzo share:

1) Both wear white. Nobody else in the family has such a close outfit match.

2) Some similar expressions, both spoken and portrait-wise; there's a particular portrait only Kinzo and Battler have. They use a few of the same lines, and Kinzo randomly uses English during the Goldsmith scenes in ep4 much like Battler's english expressions.

3) Battler is said to physically resemble Kinzo in his youth. They both appear to be particularly tall as well, especially compared to other characters. Kinzo's portraits regularly clip off the top of the screen, and he has barely any hair (Natsuhi's portrait does too, but her actual HEAD is quite a bit lower). Battler and Gohda are pretty close to the same portrait height, but nearly everyone else is much shorter.

4) Metaphorically and metaphysically, Battler and Kinzo are equated. Kinzo is said to have no magical power, yet he became a powerful magician. Battler has massive magic resistance, yet he also becomes a sorcerer (maybe). Beatrice calls Kinzo a phoenix, and the same is said of Battler.

5) The mistaken vision of Kinzo that Battler sees when he's on his way to finding the gold is the only time an apparition of Kinzo appeared to the person who found the gold, at least that we know of, and the only time Kinzo seems to have acknowledged anyone as his successor. Essentially, then, you could say Kinzo metaphorically approves of Battler taking the headship (even though we can't say he REALLY does since he's dead and the only things we have out of his mouth about Battler are unreliable).

Don't forget Battler abandoning the Ushiromiya name and coming back an outsider, similarly to Kinzo.