Spice and Wolf - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Sinestra]

Sorry about the double post but right after i went back to watch the last scene one more time. Im not sure what versions certain people have but if the scene is just about 2.5-3 seconds before Horo say "You" Freeze frame and take a look a the leg and the shoe coming through the door. You can tell its definitely female which increases the chances that the person is Chloe. Also, I happened to go back to the first episode to see if there was a shot of her shoes and sure enough same style same color.

*ponders in the corner if hes being to obsessive*

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Good point people are easily manipulated especially when it comes to religion dare i say majority tend to be sheep. The period that Horo and Lawrence live in is a shinning example of when the church exerted huge influence over the European population. Its part of the era im kind of glad they make references to the one true god and paganism and the church considers it evil it just makes the over all theme seem more realistic.

Not a surprise that people can be manipulated by religion. For a long time people have needed it for explanations of why things happen in the world. To help things make sense and to have something bigger than themselves to believe in.

In some cases they can give hope that going through a tough life will all be worth it and rewarded down the road. For people living especially in that period it would be easy to be used.

On problem with single god religions is little room for co-existence. Especially if one believes in multiple gods. If most believe in many gods its a bit easier since everyone can be right. But if there is only one god that means they can't both be right.

Anyways have really gone on a tangent there.

Good catch Masanori Ota i went and checked it out and youre so right. Now heres my question. What type of role is Chole going to play? Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved. I just wondering if the whole situation will somehow paint her as evil?

Will be curious to see Chloe's role. Do think she may try one more time to bring Lawrence into things on her side. Perhaps why she wanted him to get captured. Using Horo being taken to the church as a lure to bring him in.

Though in the end she is a merchant in a very serious situation. As Lawrence said back in the first episode big things like this are risky. If she's a major part of it and it goes bad that could mean some serious consequences for her. May want to bring Lawrence in for all the reasons she would have, but his plan and not getting herself burned would come first.

Don't think she is going to be evil. May do things we don't like, but can probably be rationalized for various reasons.

[orion]

I also think that it's probably Chloe at the end of this ep especially with the ED sequence. Those shoes and tights give her away.

It's time for Lawrence to prove who's the better merchant. I hope that she gets stomped on good!

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by orion

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo.

Eternal flea infestation in the nether regions I say!

[DarthNicolas]

Originally Posted by orion

I also think that it's probably Chloe at the end of this ep especially with the ED sequence. Those shoes and tights give her away.

It's time for Lawrence to prove who's the better merchant. I hope that she gets stomped on good!

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo.

yeah I thought so too...
But what's her role,she seemed kinda innocent back then :S


And yes,the guy that cut Horo's tail must be punished in the next episode(or at least receive a punch/bite or something)

[Darkside]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Now i await the rescue of Horo and to see if Lawrence has any GAR in his blood.

LOL if Lawrence actully ended up being a GAR character i'd die laughing.

[Deathkillz]

The likelihood would be for lawrence to try to be GAR but ends up being saved by horo

"WHO THE F DO YOU THIN..." *gets shot with an arrow*

*horo transforms into the big bad wolf* O.o

[orion]

There's got to be some GAR in him. He is carrying a short sword/hunting knife.

He will probably use his wits to outmaneuver them and be rescued by Horo again.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I had thought about putting this in the World of Horo thread, but it has nothing with medieval economy nor with the show's historical setting, so I'll put it here instead.

It's a real-life example of what the Medioh Company might be attempting to do. Or rather, it's my best guess at what they are doing, and it also explains why the Milone Company had started hoarding Thoreni silver in spite of its falling value. As I've mentioned before, I think they're both trying to create a speculative bubble. It's an extremely risky scheme that can easily go very badly wrong. It can also lead to immense profit if you pull it off successfully.

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble

Spoiler for those who prefer to skip this rather dry post:

"In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

"In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

"When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in 1979, the price was about $5. Late 1979 to early 1980 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

"Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 ('Silver Thursday') as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."

[bloodyknight]

Originally Posted by orion

I also think that it's probably Chloe at the end of this ep especially with the ED sequence. Those shoes and tights give her away.

It's time for Lawrence to prove who's the better merchant. I hope that she gets stomped on good!

The idiot who cut Horo's tail needs divine punishment imo.

Yes, i do have the same sentiment as well... But why?! Why would she do that? The possibly of this looks kind of slim... For money? Unlikely... For love? Who knows... for hatred... That would be a damn surprise... It will need a good reason behind that...

Originally Posted by DarthNicolas

yeah I thought so too...
But what's her role,she seemed kinda innocent back then :S


And yes,the guy that cut Horo's tail must be punished in the next episode(or at least receive a punch/bite or something)

I guess he might probably be bitten to death by Horo if she is released... of course at the absence of Lawrence... She does not want to go on the trip back home lonely, if i am not wrong... Who knows?!

Originally Posted by orion

There's got to be some GAR in him. He is carrying a short sword/hunting knife.

He will probably use his wits to outmaneuver them and be rescued by Horo again.

Well, this has happened quite often... from 140/160 silver coins to 210 silver coins... I'll be damned!!! Anyone who is with her might be super rich... she is wise... Hopefully, she is wise enough to get out of that situation safely... It is rare that anyone would live to see a wolf in human form in a lifetime...

[bloodyknight]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I had thought about putting this in the World of Horo thread, but it has nothing with medieval economy nor with the show's historical setting, so I'll put it here instead.

It's a real-life example of what the Medioh Company might be attempting to do. Or rather, it's my best guess at what they are doing, and it also explains why the Milone Company had started hoarding Thoreni silver in spite of its falling value. As I've mentioned before, I think they're both trying to create a speculative bubble. It's an extremely risky scheme that can easily go very badly wrong. It can also lead to immense profit if you pull it off successfully.

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble

Spoiler for those who prefer to skip this rather dry post:

"In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

"In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

"When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in 1979, the price was about $5. Late 1979 to early 1980 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

"Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 ('Silver Thursday') as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."

Wow!!! I have no idea man... Not a damn idea at all... This really happened in real life, dude?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I had thought about putting this in the World of Horo thread, but it has nothing with medieval economy nor with the show's historical setting, so I'll put it here instead.

It's a real-life example of what the Medioh Company might be attempting to do. Or rather, it's my best guess at what they are doing, and it also explains why the Milone Company had started hoarding Thoreni silver in spite of its falling value. As I've mentioned before, I think they're both trying to create a speculative bubble. It's an extremely risky scheme that can easily go very badly wrong. It can also lead to immense profit if you pull it off successfully.

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble

Spoiler for those who prefer to skip this rather dry post:

"In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

"In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

"When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in 1979, the price was about $5. Late 1979 to early 1980 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

"Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 ('Silver Thursday') as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."

But they're not hoarding silver. They're hoarding currency. If they corner the "Threnny silver market", people will just use other coins. That would only devaluate it further, to the point where it'll only be worth about its silver content or less. It would fail as a currency, and they'd be stuck with a stock of useless lumps of metal.

[Westlo]

This episode, like the others, featured wonderful interaction between Horo and Lawrence. Horo really showed a vulnerable side to Lawrence and seemed really touched by Lawrence's actions, especially giving her his blueprint for his dream shop to clean her face, Ami Koshimizu was just wonderful in that part.

Than you just have to love what happens for the next minute after the lights went out, Lawrence sure didn't waste any time but things got interrupted. Things got quite tense at this stage and I really liked Horo's "Loneliness is a fatal disease line". It's really nice to see how much the leads care for each other even at this stage of the relationship. I was also quite surprised to see that the Horo being a wolf god was revealed so quickly. If I had to guess I wouldn't have thought such a thing would've happened in the first few novels...

Anyway wonderful episode with plot developments and twists to go with the wonderful interaction between the two leads. I also really liked how that merchant took no offense to the trick Horo used to increase the price of the furs.

Really looking forward to the next episode and seeing who it is that Horo recognized and seeing how the situation is resolved. Also will be quite fun to watch Lawrence and Horo interact once things settle down after the events of this episode.

9.5/10 (rounded down to 9 for poll)

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But they're not hoarding silver. They're hoarding currency. If they corner the "Threnny silver market", people will just use other coins. That would only devaluate it further, to the point where it'll only be worth about its silver content or less. It would fail as a currency, and they'd be stuck with a stock of useless lumps of metal.

That's partly true, hence the high risk, high reward factor. If either the Medioh or Milone Company carried the scheme too far, they could both go bankcrupt. But if either one of them exited at the peak of the bubble, they would hit jackpot.

Furthermore, with silver being a precious metal and the primary medium of exchange, it wouldn't become completely useless in a medieval economy, at least not the same way that paper money could become worthless today. Also, since the Medioh Company is being backed by nobles, there is the chance the nobles could melt the coins and mint a new currency if the plot goes haywire. They might even decide to make copies of whichever coin replaces Thoreni silver as the new trading currency. Lawrence was carrying a few "counterfeit" coins of his own, so it does appear to happen in the World of Horo.

But of course, this is all literally speculation on my part. The actual plot may be something else altogether simpler.

[Thentus]

Would just like to point out the post inn-room scene how Lawrence was pretty much still captivated by the moment. Talking about shopping for a comb because she has "really nice hair"(which she does) is kind of odd while running away from people trying to kill you, no?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by bloodyknight

Wow!!! I have no idea man... Not a damn idea at all... This really happened in real life, dude?

<sigh> yes, it actually caught *me* for a thousand bucks or so (bought at wrong time, sold in aggravation later).

You could say most of the Enron stockholders who lost their fortunes were nailed by similar manipulation of "value".

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

That's partly true, hence the high risk, high reward factor. If either the Medioh or Milone Company carried the scheme too far, they could both go bankcrupt. But if either one of them exited at the peak of the bubble, they would hit jackpot.

What bubble? They're buying now while it's normal, and expecting the price to drop soon. How much sense does that make? There may be a slight increase as the conned merchants try to get some of those coins, but it'll never rise very high. (Even the conned guys don't expect the coins to rise that much in value, and if they see there's so much competition that the price of the coins rises above what they believe will be the new value, they just won't buy.)

And even after the panic subsides, the coins won't even regain their former values, because of the lowered silver content.

Furthermore, with silver being a precious metal and the primary medium of exchange, it wouldn't become completely useless in a medieval economy, at least not the same way that paper money could become worthless today. Also, since the Medioh Company is being backed by nobles, there is the chance the nobles could melt the coins and mint a new currency if the plot goes haywire. They might even decide to make copies of whichever coin replaces Thoreni silver as the new trading currency. Lawrence was carrying a few "counterfeit" coins of his own, so it does appear to happen in the World of Horo.

Yes. They'll be worth the metal they're made of, minus the amount of work needed to get that metal in usable form. Which is a lot less than a Thoreni silver is currently worth.

Mint a new currency? It has to backed by something. Coins are worth more than their metal because of the trust people have in them. Just minting coins won't really produce wealth.

Counterfeit coins? Sure, they could do that. But they don't need actual Thoreny silvers to do that. It'd be much cheaper to just buy the metal.

[Caiobrz]

If you add the last scene of episode 1, Chloe talk on business, and Horo's surprise, is there any DOUBT it's either Chloe or the village chief? I would say Chloe since it will create more impact.

And since most anime OP/ED give away some parts of the plot:

because in the OP we see Chole with a hood on

this settles the case. Also, if it's not her, when will she ever get to the spotlight anyway?

BTW:

I read it would be Chloe, but where did she get the money to hire the guys?

She does not need to be the boss, just a pawn. Who said she need any money to be part of all that? after all, she is there to EARN money =p

Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved.

From the first episode I get the impression Chloe is very interested in Lawrence, and if you add the fact that Lawrence by now is totall hooked on Horo, it's not hard to see Chloe as the vilain because of jealous ... and some money grubbing reasons.

It's really a shame this is going to be a small title, should be 26 episodes. Some useless stuff get 26 episodes and drag all the way long, while this with lots of potential and content don't. Yet, most studios nowadays work carefully: Being this a sucess, they will surelly continue with a second season.

Funny thing comes to mind: The Character Designer for this is the same from Vandread ...

Spice and Wolf - the second stage ?

LOL

[Random Wanderer]

I don't know what the future has to offer, although I'd prefer Chloe not be an antagonist at this point.

I think those people were never there about Lawerence's business deal at all. Like Mirone company said, no matter what they did to him he'd already passed on his information: taking him out wouldn't change their reaction in the least, and he's not important enough to them for them to risk themselves in trying to free him. I think those people were there after Horo all along. They clearly knew what she was, and in far more detail than they should just from having noticed her ears and tail.

Sad Horo makes me sad. Must hug and protect...

[Chrono Helix]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

The look on the Milone head guy when Lawrance told him that she was the incantation of a wolf-god of the harvest was great, makes me wonder if he was thinking "Oh my god pagan!" or "oh my god, harvest god, leads to harvest, leads to money!", prolly just "omg his friend is a god, wait what".

Originally Posted by suguru

That whole scene with Lawrence and Horo at the inn, where he gives her the drawing of his dream store to use as a Kleenex, was just really well done--it really felt like a big milestone in their relationship. I can just picture ten years later, Lawrence sitting around the fireplace with a little boy and little girl with wolf ears, and him telling them about handing Horo the picture of the store and saying that was the moment, even though he didn't really realize it at the time, that he decided to spend the rest of his life with their mom. And then he adds some wisecrack about how he didn't realize how truly frightening she could be back then, and Horo smacks him in the back of the head and tells him to go get more firewood from the backyard

I was thinking the exact same thing. Well, except the part about speculating about their future marriage. It's a cute imagery though.