2009-07-06, 19:14 | Link #8701 |
Pon pon pon
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
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I thought Suzaku was going to get crazy at the end of the series. In fact, i think he already was a shonen hero when everything started. He wasn't like Kenshin. Kenshin in the not that good ol' days didn't liked it, but killed. A. LOT. Suzaku was more of a "i'm not going to kill even if i die", so, when you're already in the top of the shonen qualification, there's only one way: Dowhill.
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2009-07-07, 00:11 | Link #8703 |
blinded by blood
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Suzaku was batshit crazy to begin with. All of his shonen-hero tendencies seem to stem from the ridiculous deathwish he developed as a result of killing his own father.
If he had never killed Prime Minister Kururugi, Suzaku would have had his head on a lot straighter. Probably would have not put on the blinders to Britannia's evil, and likely would have been fighting along with Kallen in the resistance.
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2009-07-07, 06:12 | Link #8704 | |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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Hell, you could even argue that the intervention of others could have completely altered Kallen's allegiance. No surrender means her brother never has a chance years later to run a ramshackle resistance, while her father would likely have tried to keep his family safer. And if any other faction besides Britannia (Europe, China, or even especially Japanese remnants) got him killed, then you could easily envision her connecting to her Statfield-half. |
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2009-07-07, 11:10 | Link #8705 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: world of devilman lady
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Yeah fighting britannia is one thing but fighting all three powers would have been a disaster for japan simply put they didn't not have the means to fight three super powers at once. even lelouch strategies wouldn't work. and yes kallen alliagance might have shifted she might have ended up in Britannia possibly as knight of the rounds as gino once said
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2009-07-07, 22:35 | Link #8706 |
blinded by blood
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It's not necessarily true that would have happened. It's mentioned by one character, but honestly what would Minister Kururugi have done?
Asked his people to commit suicide by cop--er, Britannian? No. He would have swallowed his pride, made a big show of capitulating to Britannia's demands, but would have ensured there was one hell of a stronger backing for any resistance force. There's absolutely no way Japan could have won the fight against Britannia and I'm sure his generals would have explained that to him. So the central government of Japan goes to ground, the resistance always exists and is never ramshackle. Britannia winning the war was never in question. They had more troops, more guns and more money. But by killing his father, Suzaku ensured that the resistance would be so weak that Britannian rule would be virtually unchallenged. At least until Zero came along...
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2009-07-08, 06:48 | Link #8707 | ||
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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Last edited by Dean_the_Young; 2009-07-08 at 14:00. |
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2009-07-08, 07:17 | Link #8708 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Looking at the context, it might have been an exaggeration. Hm... the thing is, we don't know what kind of person Genbu really was, do we? For example, in the Light Novel, he planned to let Japan be crushed because Kirihara had too much power. He wanted to hand the country to Britannia on a silver plate so that he could become governor afterwards. Now, the Light Novels aren't canon, but Stage 0 seems pretty close, and even if that aspect was purely the writer's own interpretation, I still can't remember any side materials contradicting it, which would mean that anything is possible.
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2009-07-08, 07:26 | Link #8709 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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but the whole reason suzaku killed him was because he WOULDN'T surrender even at the cost of destroying japan
doesnt that COMPLETELY contredict what you just posted from the novel ?
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2009-07-08, 07:43 | Link #8710 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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They all knew continuing the fight was pointless, but while Kirihara later on came up with the suicide story to make Japan go down with a bang and a lot of reserves still in tact, Genbu wanted this war because it would have destroyed Kirihara and truly left him the most powerful man in Japan due to his connections to, for example, those who wanted to get rid of Lelouch and Nunally. For that, he would happily have become a "dog of Britannia".
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2009-07-09, 23:44 | Link #8713 |
Wielder of Cucumbers
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
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whoohooo!
In honour of Suzaku's birthday, which hasn't arrived where I live (just over an hour away...!), I would like to say: Suzaku, you magnificent hypocritical crazy messed up sweet lovable sexy masochistic beast, have a happy birthday. You have been shown an undeserved amount of hate from the fandom, but you will always have a few loyal fans and not-haters who will recognize the awesomeness of your character. <3 |
2009-07-09, 23:51 | Link #8714 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NY, USA
Age: 33
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2009-07-10, 00:12 | Link #8715 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 35
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Well, it's officially July 10th where I am so...
Happy Birthday Suzaku! You masochistic son of a bitch! LOL, nah seriously, I feel for ya bro. I'd say that Suzaku is definitely one of the characters that had to put up with some of the biggest sh*t in Code Geass. So here's to Suzaku for persevering through and through (more or less) |
2009-07-11, 08:25 | Link #8717 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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wut, so now it's Suzaku's birthday too. lol 'k whatever, happy belated birthday Suzaku (six and a half hours late in my time zone).
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Also, it's pretty much a given that ending a war sooner = less people dead. I don't see how it's possible that Suzaku killing his father could have left Japan weaker from a post-war standpoint. Even if we don't get into the whole 'three superpowers slaughtering each other for scraps of Japan' scenario, which would have destroyed Japan's citizenry, Genbu's early death certainly left more of Japan's military in tact. That means more remnants to go underground, and a stronger post-war resistance. Lemme ask something I still haven't really straightened out, though. What exactly was it about the aftermath of Genbu's death that Suzaku regretted? What actually made him feel he was wrong? Was it simply the reality of having killed someone with his own hands? I really don't think that was it, 'cause it simply does not make sense from all sorts of perspectives. Rather, I think the trigger for Suzaku's feelings of guilt was from the act of having broken the 'rules' of obeying his father and the root of those feelings of guilt was in him somehow failing to save the lives of innocent people. After all, during the hoteljack incident, Suzaku's 'crazy' reaction was "it's happening again..." So what I'm really trying to figure out here is: how did Suzaku's killing of his father lead to innocent deaths, moreso than would have occurred if he hadn't killed him? Japan's loss was a foregone conclusion, so why would he regret hastening its surrender? |
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2009-07-11, 10:26 | Link #8718 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2009-07-12, 01:55 | Link #8719 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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@Sol and morbosfist: I think it was also that the killing didn't stop once Genbu died. Britannia swooped in and decimated Japan and people still suffered. Suzaku was never the type to sit down and think "Okay, alot of people are suffering because of what I did, but realistically more would be suffering if I hadn't acted." In fact, I'm skeptical if he ever realized this until years later (and even if he did, he knew that those weren't the reasons he acted). Suzaku basically put together in his mind that he broke a rule and millions suffered as a result, without ever considering that what he did really was the best thing for Japan in the overall sense. Looking around at all the suffering of his people it would be pretty hard to say "It's okay, they're actually better off since I killed my father in a hissy fit." |
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2009-07-12, 02:10 | Link #8720 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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What happened with Suzaku is that he killed his father and was pretty much rewarded for it. He sees it as a good thing that his murder brought peace, since he's quick enough to shoot his mouth off about the peace his father made, but how he gained that peace eats at him.
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