Gaara vs. Neji - Battle of the Absolute Defences

[noor]

Tenten says that Neji's "Absolute Defence" is stronger than Gaara's....in epi 60.
but Gaara passed the second round of the examinations under Anku unscathed ! while Neji was a bit tired and his looked as dirty as others..

whose "Absolute Defence" is stronger? Please vote !

if other person , state his/her name on a reply message

[Kisame Hoshigaki]

i'll vote for gaara, i'd rather have an automatic defence that doesn't cost chakra at the expense of it being weaker.

[tektonik]

Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki

i'll vote for gaara, i'd rather have an automatic defence that doesn't cost chakra at the expense of it being weaker.

That whole not sleeping thing would wear on me though.

I find it funny they both have really creepy eyes though. I vote for neiji

[Kabuto Maniac]

Originally Posted by noor

Tenten says that Neji's "Absolute Defence" is stronger than Gaara's....in epi 60
but Gaara passed the second round of the examinations under Anku unscathed ! while Neji was a bit tired and his looked as dirty as others..

whose "Absolute Defence" is stronger?

Neji's is 'stronger' for it can stop everything, no matter how powerful (tai-jutsu for sure, I recall somebody talking about no-jutsu too...). Gaar's can block much tai-jutsu, but once it gets too powerful the defence will be penetrated (I guess I don't have to mention I'm referring to Lee right now...?). but..: Neji's absolute defence cost him alot more chackra (even than the sand sticked to Gaara's body, I think) then Gaara's, and it is very obious. (you can't see Gaara's defence unless you penetrated it). plus: the probability of getting to Gaara's ultimate defnce is smaller than to Neji's.

summarizing: Neji's is more powerful, but Gaara's will last longer and is thus more effective against not-extremely-powerful enemies.

[noor]

Originally Posted by Kabuto Maniac

Neji's is 'stronger' for it can stop everything, no matter how powerful (tai-jutsu for sure, I recall somebody talking about no-jutsu too...). Gaar's can block much tai-jutsu, but once it gets too powerful the defence will be penetrated (I guess I don't have to mention I'm referring to Lee right now...?). but..: Neji's absolute defence cost him alot more chackra (even than the sand sticked to Gaara's body, I think) then Gaara's, and it is very obious. (you can't see Gaara's defence unless you penetrated it). plus: the probability of getting to Gaara's ultimate defnce is smaller than to Neji's.

summarizing: Neji's is more powerful, but Gaara's will last longer and is thus more effective against not-extremely-powerful enemies.

but Gaara doesn even need to call upon his defence now thats POWER dude !!.....neji's wastes energy ...though might be flashy

And also Gaara is still lasting the fight with Naruto....Neji's was over in lesser time

[Nine Devil]

euhm im sure Katen can't stop every taijutsu attack, like from a jounin.

[Sai]

guhhhhh, I say Neji's is definatley better i mean look how many times gaara's didn't work lee busted through sasuke busted through naruto busted through blah blah blah

[hob]

What are rules for? ANARKY!111
I guess it's ... diferent, but at least give us more choices.

[Soju]

I vote for the Kaiten. Why?

Gaara's shield of sand has already been defeated several times, penetrating to the armor of sand, which DOES TAKE GAARA'S CHAKRA, and still doesn't stand up very well to something like an Ura Renge'd Lee kicking (not that Neji's kaiten could either but...)

Kaiten, however, has the opportunity of getting stronger as Neji grows stronger. It could get stronger by him emitting more chakra, and/or spinning faster. On another subject, I'm sure Neji's jyuken could defeat the armor of sand as well, because of: (manga spoiler)

Spoiler:

the way he killed Kidoumaru.

Another reason, is that it is an attack and defense at the same time. If you try to attack, and get hit by the kaiten, it hurts.

And how do I know it can get stronger? (manga spoiler, chapter 137)

Spoiler:

Look at how f****** gigantic Hiashi's kaiten was. He disabled something like 9-10 enemy ninjas with just that (I counted).

If you are watching the anime, and want to know what I said above, just wait. It should be in next week's episode (79) unless we get some really huge gay filler.

[7thMethuselah]

they are both weak against high speed taisetsu but they kaiten will cost alot more chakra to maintain. So in the end gaara's defense will win. Another point going for Gaara is that his defense is automatic it's active while he's napping or not paying attention at all while Neeji actually has to turn it on.

how about Naruto's defense , he kicked to pieces every other episode and just keeps getting up, how do you beat an annoying little kid that just won't stay down

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah

they are both weak against high speed taisetsu but they kaiten will cost alot more chakra to maintain. So in the end gaara's defense will win. Another point going for Gaara is that his defense is automatic it's active while he's napping or not paying attention at all while Neeji actually has to turn it on.

how about Naruto's defense , he kicked to pieces every other episode and just keeps getting up, how do you beat an annoying little kid that just won't stay down

The best way to win is with Ramen girl providing him food or henge into sakura-chan. lolz Naruto isn't too great at distinguishing gengitsu

EPYON

[Soju]

Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah

they are both weak against high speed taisetsu but they kaiten will cost alot more chakra to maintain. So in the end gaara's defense will win. Another point going for Gaara is that his defense is automatic it's active while he's napping or not paying attention at all while Neeji actually has to turn it on.

Debatable. They are both weak against high speed taijutsu maybe. But we have no idea a) how much chakra the shield of sand costs and b) how much chakra the Kaiten costs. So you can not use effeciency as part of your argument.

Yes, having it active when you are not paying attention at all is useful, but then again, if someone snuck up on Gaara while he was taking a nap, and did a super-fast taijutsu on him then he would still get hit.

But then I realized that Gaara never sleeps.

[rEkKaShInObI]

neji's is better, no question about it.

[sasukeXoro]

although i hate these vs. threads more than Satan himself, i must say that we rarely actually see gaara do any moving in a fight, let alone any actual fighting.

I dont think gaara even practed training as a ninja/ninja fighting. hell, I think gaara probally doesnt even uses his leg muscles to walk, he probally uses the sand to move his legs back and forth to take steps.

if it was a straight up street fight with no ninja magic chakra, then neji all the way.

[rEkKaShInObI]

the topic has been discussed already i think, ands its from an old episode.

[Soju]

I think Gaara at least walks with his legs... but past that... yeah I never see him MOVING during a fight lol.

[EbonySeraphim]

Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah

they are both weak against high speed taisetsu but they kaiten will cost alot more chakra to maintain. So in the end gaara's defense will win. Another point going for Gaara is that his defense is automatic it's active while he's napping or not paying attention at all while Neeji actually has to turn it on.

how about Naruto's defense , he kicked to pieces every other episode and just keeps getting up, how do you beat an annoying little kid that just won't stay down

I agree, Naruto's absolute defense has won everytime. Everyone ready for my far reply? I haven't posted much, but they are always long. Get some chips before the read:

I voted for Gaara's sand but really, I think absolute defenses really suck and are far too overated. They really cause the people who have them to not develop other skills that would evade them getting hurt, or in sticky situations where they would have to use them. None of the Jounins in Konoha have an absolute defense, but im sure you can't see them losing against Neji or Gaara. You also wouldn't think that those jounins wouldn't get hit too easily by attacks. Why? evasions, bushins, kawarimi, or counter jutsus are used to defend and they have enough mastery to fight without them. By having a defense that is considered unbeatable, the person usually wastes time, and the thing about any absolute defense is that it entails a method. Either use of chakra directly, use of material, something makes it work. If the enemy ninja is smart, he or she will take out the absolute defense at the right time and finish the fight before whoever can recooperate. Something like Neji's Kaiten could easily be defeated by

Spoiler:

Kisame's sword since it absorbs chakra that Neji would be freely giving to him.

Something like Gaara's sand could be defeated by knowing some elemental properties of sand...perhaps generating enough heat to make it glass, or watering it down.

The reason why I think the sand is better is because one, it is automatic in defending simple attacks, it is material-dynamic and can be used for a lot more than just blocking, and it can be in varying degrees of hardness. Wheras Kaiten, though it can be used offensively too, it is limited to a dome shaped attack within proximity of the opponent and it is major chakra drain. As far as which can withold a stronger attack, it really all depends on the degree of Gaara and Neji's strength. As far as how they are now, I think they are both pretty equal in how much force their defenses can withstand. I really don't think Neji's Kaiten would do much vs chidori, and same thing as far as kaiten being used vs Lee's taijutsu.

Also, to reinforce why sand is better, remember that Gaara can still control how he uses it for defense beyond how it automatically happens. Basically, during the fight where Lee was running circles around him, instead of standing there letting his automatic defense fail, he could have used his own anticipation to defend(assuming he could). He could have used the shell, like he did vs Sasuke and force Lee to have enough strength to break through it.

The way Neji uses Kaiten at least is very limited and specific. In my opinion Naruto somewhat has a defense like it when he generates absurd amounts of chakra. He's also been shown using chakra to deflect attacks while he was enraged with Kyuubi's chakra in a more "free" form. Basically, when Neji uses kaiten, he uses it a ton of it on all sides no matter where the attack in known to come from. It would be much more efficient to just use the right amount and nothing more. I'm sure kaiten is like chidori and very limited in the number of times it can be used in a day.

EDIT: It said "Neji's sand" in one part.

[epyon96]

I agree, Naruto's absolute defense has won everytime. Everyone ready for my far reply? I haven't posted much, but they are always long. Get some chips before the read:

I voted for Gaara's sand but really, I think absolute defenses really suck and are far too overated. They really cause the people who have them to not develop other skills that would evade them getting hurt, or in sticky situations where they would have to use them. None of the Jounins in Konoha have an absolute defense, but im sure you can't see them losing against Neji or Gaara. You also wouldn't think that those jounins wouldn't get hit too easily by attacks. Why? evasions, bushins, kawarimi, or counter jutsus are used to defend and they have enough mastery to fight without them. By having a defense that is considered unbeatable, the person usually wastes time, and the thing about any absolute defense is that it entails a method. Either use of chakra directly, use of material, something makes it work. If the enemy ninja is smart, he or she will take out the absolute defense at the right time and finish the fight before whoever can recooperate. Something like Neji's Kaiten could easily be defeated by

Spoiler:

Kisame's sword since it absorbs chakra that Neji would be freely giving to him.

Something like Gaara's sand could be defeated by knowing some elemental properties of sand...perhaps generating enough heat to make it glass, or watering it down.

The reason why I think the sand is better is because one, it is automatic in defending simple attacks, it is material-dynamic and can be used for a lot more than just blocking, and it can be in varying degrees of hardness. Wheras Kaiten, though it can be used offensively too, it is limited to a dome shaped attack within proximity of the opponent and it is major chakra drain. As far as which can withold a stronger attack, it really all depends on the degree of Gaara and Neji's strength. As far as how they are now, I think they are both pretty equal in how much force their defenses can withstand. I really don't think Neji's Kaiten would do much vs chidori, and same thing as far as kaiten being used vs Lee's taijutsu.

Also, to reinforce why sand is better, remember that Gaara can still control how he uses it for defense beyond how it automatically happens. Basically, during the fight where Lee was running circles around him, instead of standing there letting his automatic defense fail, he could have used his own anticipation to defend(assuming he could). He could have used the shell, like he did vs Sasuke and force Lee to have enough strength to break through it.

The way Neji uses Kaiten at least is very limited and specific. In my opinion Naruto somewhat has a defense like it when he generates absurd amounts of chakra. He's also been shown using chakra to deflect attacks while he was enraged with Kyuubi's chakra in a more "free" form. Basically, when Neji uses kaiten, he uses it a ton of it on all sides no matter where the attack in known to come from. It would be much more efficient to just use the right amount and nothing more. I'm sure kaiten is like chidori and very limited in the number of times it can be used in a day.

Well, I'm pretty sure that even jounins will have trouble penetrating Kaiten. It's the move that counts. The individual that does it requires mostly skill to do it. What I mean by this is that the more chakra you have,

Spoiler:

like hiaishi

, the bigger it will become. However, the move is just as effective as someone with lesser chakra like Neji.

Just take a look at how many ninjas that one move by the aforementioned character in the spoiler did to beat all the ninjas. This will probably be in the next episode or something so you will see. I would imagine that some of them are jounins too.

I'm not sayng which one is stronger but I am certain that Kaiten can stop a couple of jounins.

EPYON

[Eshu]

[spoiler] on the surface Gaara's is better, because of the fact he can just get more and more defensive, then finally go with the sand egg thingie. the problem with gaara's is of course that it makes him loopy, and sasuke is NOT the only one in the manga who is as fast or faster then Lee. Plus, against someone who knew more about summons, Gaara would be boned, as they'd rip his little legs off before he finished the transformation.

Mind you not EVERYONE could handle Gaara, even the some of the jounin's couldn't. His sand DOES move fast, DOES block even large explosions, and if it gets in the way, it can block some of the strongest attacks there are.

I'd be interested to know if someone used chidori on him, before he was in the sand egg thing, if it would have just ripped clean through.

Neji's defence however gives him a huge advantage....it lets him fight back better.
Gaara can control his sand, but it doesn't allways obey him, and gets in his way. Neji's defence allows him to avoid projectiles, which are his main weakness, as in general if you are in arms reach of him, you are boned.

Of course Neji's suffers from the fact he has to activate it (the sand protects Gaara ALL the time, if he likes it or not) and that it cant's protect him from energy attacks he can't dodge. (I think...) In all honesty Neji's perfect defense is the 64 hands. While his taijitsu is powerful and very deadly, there ARE some ninja (namely Kabuto, Tsunade, Naruto, and i'd bet money that some others can take quite a bit then heal themselves) who can heal, and others who have ways of dealing with internal damage. However they universally will be dead as doornails if they have no chakra.

in conclusion
Neji = Prettydarn good, the one I'd prefer
Gaara = slightly better, if it wasn't for the inherant loopyness caused by it.

[NaOH]

Neji's defense (kaiten) is not perfect in the manga

Spoiler:

Spider boy discovers neji's blind spot, and also prevented neji from doing kaiten

anyways, neji's kaiten requires chakra, and needs time to spin. neji can't spin forever, neji can get hit by sneak attacks (asuming he didn't turn on his byakugan)

gaara's sand is automatic and requires 0 chakra, its also on 24/7 (operates even if he not doing anything) Only thing that can beat it is super speed and super strong piercing attacks