American ISPs to Police Customer Downloads in July 2012

[Urzu 7]

If they don't filter through our porn activity (other than torrents), than I'm unaffected by this. I just don't want anyone knowing about my catgirl ecchi viewing.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

So what about NZBs and Usenet stuff? Those would be ridiculously hard (impossible) to track, correct? Wouldn't this just force people towards them (NVM that they are more reliable than Torrents - and legal, since you aren't sharing squat).

Only downside for you is that they can cost money to use.

[Vexx]

Basically, torrents are the first and only "easy" way to catch infringement. Why? Because you publicize your presence in the cloud of packet sharing.

Everything else one machine to machine. So unless the source machine is a 'honeypot' (owned by the "bad guys") they're not going to see it. Regular packets require what is called "deep inspection" to determine that they are part of an infringing file by machines configured to watch packets not destined for them (sniffers). This is ... hard/expensive. There are literally thousands of ports that can be used for various protocols to move data.

Even then... just because your IP gets recorded as having received an infringing file - the majority of courts have ruled that "IP does not equal person". Reason - visitors, driveby wifi borrowers, IP forging, etc.

The only reason SOME of the ISPs are pretending to listen is that they're *owned* by the overhead corporation that also owns the MPAA/RIAA members.

In a nutshell, the sky is not falling... but there are thunderstorms to keep an eye on.

[SaintessHeart]

Well you Americans can either have those laws or these laws :



Ever considered being a Canadian?

EDIT : I am perfectly fine with gay marriage btw. Just keep their intimacy off places where young girls can see them.

[HasuMasu]

^ That's one fine looking horse you got there.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

TBH, the horse doesn't seem all that impressed.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

TBH, the horse doesn't seem all that impressed.

Love thy neighbours; the person was just being neighhhh-bourly.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Oh no you didn't!

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by GDB

Streaming is still downloading, it just goes to the cache rather than a permanent spot of your choosing. It's how pluggins like DownloadHelper work.

That's what I would think, hence me asking. Thanks for the clarification.

[Dhomochevsky]

Torrents show what you (your IP) is downloading to everyone. You don't need to be an ISP to see that, which is why this (and other P2P) was the prime target until now.

Anything not P2P is only between you and a server. So unless the server does tell on you, no one will know. This is where ISPs come in, because they sit between you and the server, so they theoretically can see anything you send and recieve.
But as others have said, this requires a lot of computing power to analyze.
From the view of the ISP there is no difference between a download and streaming. Which begs the question how this would even work with Youtube and internet radios being legal. Lots of false positives?

However, even if all ISPs would suddenly invest into deep packet inspection, that would not be the end of the world. Most websites would just start using data encryption more.
HTTPS was made for this exact purpose.
Then the best ISP could do, is figuring out that you recieved a certain amount of data from a suspicious server.

Encryption is not widely used at the moment. I guess that's because it requires sessions, which are inconvinient compared to unencrypted communication. But if packet inspection ever got popular with the ISPs, that should change in no time.

[mangamuscle]

There is a glimmer of hope

[Goshin]

If this does pass it is only going to challenge users for a little bit until they figure out an alternative. at first on computer savvy people will be able to continue downloading, but one person will tell another until it gets popular again and rinse and repeat.

I remember when only a few of friends knew of torrents, but now everyone uses them, even computer illiterate people.

It kinda makes no sense that computer illiterate people use torrents but imagine this. a lot of people I know used limewire without knowing how it really works, so when limewire got shot down, I believed a lot of people quit that form of p2p sharing for a while, they did not realize that frostwire or other programs connects to the same network. as a result a lot of files became unavailable for a while.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

There is a glimmer of hope

Seriously, the courts are starting to *get it* and for many reasons, it is not going well for the "we want you to pay us every time you think about us" cabal. This is why this group is trying to:
1) buy the pipelines (the big ISPs outside of the telcos, Comcast, AOL, etc)
2) set up their own rules about users on it (fascist walled gardens worse than the old days of AOL and Compuserve)
3) turn the internet into a passive experience like television

The cabal is trying to avoid ever going to court in the first place with all these "mitigated response" "three strikes" shenanigans that avoid judicial review. Because they lose on the judicial side of the discussion. I can see the end-game in that the courts start ruling that anyone who offers "internet service" may not restrict use of protocols nor may they deny service unless the user has been found guilty of violating related laws.

Just don't think they won't fight until the "old guard" is dead from old age. The RIAA/MPAA doesn't want to join the 21st century, they'd like the internet to go away completely (i.e. disruptive technology, like VHS... :P), and they like their old business model that screwed everyone (artist and customer) except the fat guys with cigars in the Armani suits.

Something worth reading if you're involved in a legal situation (solutions at the end):
http://beckermanlegal.com/Documents/...TMLVERSION.htm

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Seriously, the courts are starting to *get it* and for many reasons, it is not going well for the "we want you to pay us every time you think about us" cabal. This is why this group is trying to:
1) buy the pipelines (the big ISPs outside of the telcos, Comcast, AOL, etc)
2) set up their own rules about users on it (fascist walled gardens worse than the old days of AOL and Compuserve)
3) turn the internet into a passive experience like television

The cabal is trying to avoid ever going to court in the first place with all these "mitigated response" "three strikes" shenanigans that avoid judicial review. Because they lose on the judicial side of the discussion. I can see the end-game in that the courts start ruling that anyone who offers "internet service" may not restrict use of protocols nor may they deny service unless the user has been found guilty of violating related laws.

Just don't think they won't fight until the "old guard" is dead from old age. The RIAA/MPAA doesn't want to join the 21st century, they'd like the internet to go away completely (i.e. disruptive technology, like VHS... :P), and they like their old business model that screwed everyone (artist and customer) except the fat guys with cigars in the Armani suits.

Something worth reading if you're involved in a legal situation (solutions at the end):
http://beckermanlegal.com/Documents/...TMLVERSION.htm

Honestly speaking, it is their mentality of earning something by doing nothing : "Your passive experience is our passive income".

Come on, even the Wall Street brokers WORK for their commissions by arranging deals for buyers and sellers, "passive" income it may be. So why should these media congolmerate people earn something from just simply filing lawsuits to suppress new technology, so they don't have to adapt to it?

[synaesthetic]

Their current mode of existence is unsustainable and they know it. That's why they're acting like this. It's a mad scramble to make as much money as they can before their business models become completely obsolete. They know they can't stop the march of technology, they know they can't permanently break the Internet to suit their whims.

They're staring death in the face and it has them shitting themselves in terror. Scared people don't make rational decisions. If they were rational, they'd simply adopt to the new paradigms and continue to make money, business as usual. But instead they're going into full-on protectionism mode and it's just accelerating their demise.

As Vexx notes, only the pipes owned by Big Content are going to enforce this "six strikes" rule--which means that I'll have to be a bit careful about what I torrent as long as I'm on Comcast. Not that it's a really big deal, since I only torrent fansubs and the MPAA could not give less fucks about any IPs they don't control.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Their current mode of existence is unsustainable and they know it.

Sadly I think otherwise, the RIAA; haMPAA and the like really think the can roll back the clock and continue their business model into tht 21st century and they will use all of their influence (they are not $upporting Obama for free) to acomplish it. It kind of reminds me of the woodsman that wont stop cutting trees until the last one has falled down and all that is left is a wasteland.

[DonQuigleone]

Reminds me of Guilds

[Ryusiangel]

i use irc how will this effect it?

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Ever considered being a Canadian?

We also have some stupids law as well. But of course, some provinces are better ( some would say less bad ) than others...

[mangamuscle]

Here in Mexico AFAIK all internet service providers have no caps on internet plans, muahahahahahaha *cough* *cough* *cough* X_x