[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Guido]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Yasu pretty much hates her own existence, yea. It pretty much hit when she learned her parentage and how she was dumped off a cliff and all that stuff.

In other words, if Yasu's truly proven that "she's" female, then that means Yasu's a yandere.

But, if Yasu's indeed female wouldn't that invalidate the "Battler is the culprit" theory formulated in End of the Golden Witch?


Then, this is my bet: AuraTwilight say it in red that Yasu's a female.


P.S. I've always wanted to say that quote. *lol*

[cronnoponno]

I think people just say ''She'' for reference, saying ''he/she'' every time would get really annoying, and while I personally think Yasu IS female(although maybe she started off as a male, point being she lacks a penis), I can't prove it, so I just use ''she'' most of the time. Also, do Yandere's have to be female? Confused at what you said there.

But I still like the idea that Yasu looks like Kanon physically, and can disguise herself as Shannon due to his girlish figure, fake breasts. Due to Kanon's looks, the gender issue can still be there, I mean she can still be female even if she looked like Kanon.

[Jan-Poo]

What bothers me the most about Yasu being originally male is the fact that then he'd be the victim of a forced feminization by the hands of Genji.

But I guess I shouldn't be that surprised considering we already have a rapist (Kinzo) a murderer (Natsuhi) and a child abductor (Rudolf).

[cronnoponno]

Wait, Natsuhi murdered? Rudolph abducted a child?!? Where was this shown? Unless you mean the baby...now that I think of it.

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by cronnoponno

Wait, Natsuhi murdered? Rudolph abducted a child?!? Where was this shown? Unless you mean the baby...now that I think of it.

Natsuhi and the MF19YAO baby is highly debatable, regarding how much blame she has. I guess it depends on how much love you have for poor ol' Natsuhi, but I sincerely believe it was a genuine accident, and she just felt really, really really bad about the fact that she had wished the child would "go away".

Why does Lion only exist in a world where "Natsuhi accepted" him? Because she would've been holding the damn baby herself, probably indoors, with toys, away from any conveniently unsteady cliffside path. XD

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by Kealym

Natsuhi and the MF19YAO baby is highly debatable, regarding how much blame she has. I guess it depends on how much love you have for poor ol' Natsuhi, but I sincerely believe it was a genuine accident, and she just felt really, really really bad about the fact that she had wished the child would "go away".

Why does Lion only exist in a world where "Natsuhi accepted" him? Because she would've been holding the damn baby herself, probably indoors, with toys, away from any conveniently unsteady cliffside path. XD

And how does that have a low chance of happening? Are you telling me that 99.9999 times out of 100, no matter what she did, the baby would have died? I mean it should be as simple as "Natsuhi denies/Natsuhi accepts" but nooooo, Lion can't live unless there is some fool- proof way of him being accepted by Natsuhi without dying. WTF?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by cronnoponno

Wait, Natsuhi murdered? Rudolph abducted a child?!? Where was this shown? Unless you mean the baby...now that I think of it.

Natsuhi murdered the maid in 1967 and almost murdered Yasu with her. That poor maid died, and this fact was dismissed so easily that I'm not surprised you completely forgot about her. That Natsuhi really did that was confirmed in EP8 after you correctly answer Natsuhi's riddle.
I think an attorney would have a hard time making it pass as manslaughter, it's more like a non premeditated murder, I'm not even sure you could say Natsuhi was insane, she was just stressed.

but I sincerely believe it was a genuine accident

Even if it was, that'd be manslaugther and that's still a kind of homicide.


As for Rudolf, he took Battler away from his real mother. This is no joke, it's a serious crime. This was also confirmed in EP8 when you solve Rudolf's riddle... or was it Kyrie's? Well either one.

[cronnoponno]

I believe the ''acceptance/denial'' life-or-death is critical to the point of the story. If Lion could survive while being rejected by Natsuhi then it'd destroy the whole meaning of a lot of things I believe, logically yeah, Natsuhi hating her baby isn't grounds for an immediate death, but what if it didn't happen?


I also agree that the baby incident was an accident on Natsuhi's part, I'd like to believe that she hasn't actually ''murdered'' anyone and that she's probably the most faithful character in this series.
How is telling a servant to fuck off and then the servant ending up dead after that mean she was the one at fault? Did she literally shove them off or something? Almost positive she didn't even though she wished it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Rudolph did do that.

[Jan-Poo]

Did she literally shove them off or something?

I think it's clearly implied that she did that.

Originally Posted by Natsuhi

"......That was no reason... for me to push you off a cliff...

[Player]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I think it's clearly implied that she did that.

Or she's just, you know, blaming herself by sending the servant away, causing her to slip off a cliff. Thus, she feels she indirectly pushed Yasu off a cliff. That's my guess, anyways.

[cronnoponno]

Originally Posted by Player

Or she's just, you know, blaming herself by sending the servant away, causing her to slip off a cliff. Thus, she feels she indirectly pushed Yasu off a cliff. That's my guess, anyways.

Yeah, I believe she only says ''I did it'' because she is paranoid that her wish actually came true due to her strongly wishing for it, she's religious, so....

[Jan-Poo]

Well you can have your own interpretation, but would you say my interpretation is far fetched?

Natsuhi said it outright and Beatrice said it was true. That's more than enough for me.

[cronnoponno]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Well you can have your own interpretation, but would you say my interpretation is far fetched?

Natsuhi said it outright and Beatrice said it was true. That's more than enough for me.

Well, I can't deny it that's true, I think our interpretation is a bit of wishful thinking.

[Jan-Poo]

I'd wish Natsuhi didn't do that myself, but I'm used to try my best at ignoring my biases when I try to assess a situation.

It frankly seems a lot strange that Natsuhi would actually do that since she wasn't depicted as a person capable of murder, but then again I realize that's something Ryuukishi can do.

Just like how everyone happily help Rena hiding a corpse with smiles on their faces in Higurashi.
I think Ryuukishi... well... I think he undervalues a bit the gravity of some crimes if compared to what normally society does. Then again maybe it's because it's just fiction.

[erneiz_hyde]

Hi, dropping by a bit, just wanting to let something off my chest that I just realized recently.

I didn't really think about it at first, but if Kinzo is both Beatrice3/Yasu's father AND grandfather, that means Beatrice2 was both Yasu's mother AND older sister right? It also means Yasu is the youngest of the siblings AND the cousins' uncle/aunt.

My God, Kinzo is awesome.

[AuraTwilight]

In other words, if Yasu's truly proven that "she's" female, then that means Yasu's a yandere.

But, if Yasu's indeed female wouldn't that invalidate the "Battler is the culprit" theory formulated in End of the Golden Witch?


Then, this is my bet: AuraTwilight say it in red that Yasu's a female.


P.S. I've always wanted to say that quote. *lol*

Yasu has a female gender identity, which is what I was referencing. I do not have any confidence that she is physically a woman.

Natsuhi said it outright and Beatrice said it was true. That's more than enough for me.

While I agree with you, I do have to add that HOW WOULD BEATRICE KNOW if it was true? She was a fucking baby and any information about the incident would have to be taken secondhand. If Natsuhi says she pushed her off a cliff, REGARDLESS of whether she was right or wrong, Beatrice can only take that at face value.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I'd wish Natsuhi didn't do that myself, but I'm used to try my best at ignoring my biases when I try to assess a situation.

It frankly seems a lot strange that Natsuhi would actually do that since she wasn't depicted as a person capable of murder, but then again I realize that's something Ryuukishi can do.

It was 19 years ago. She could have been a different person back then. I also think it's completely plausible for her to lapse for just a couple seconds and commit second degree murder. And remember her motivation. She felt utterly cornered and shamed with no way out except getting rid of the child.

Personally, I do not lack for love of Natsuhi. She's one of my favorite characters and, the horrible 1986 result notwithstanding, I don't think she should be "brought to justice" for her crime because she already bears the full weight of her sin. It would only cause unneeded strife to those around her.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Just like how everyone happily help Rena hiding a corpse with smiles on their faces in Higurashi.
I think Ryuukishi... well... I think he undervalues a bit the gravity of some crimes if compared to what normally society does. Then again maybe it's because it's just fiction.

Teppei was an evil, evil human being. I'd be smiling too.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Yasu has a female gender identity, which is what I was referencing. I do not have any confidence that she is physically a woman.

Yes, Yasu's gender is female. I think her sex is male, because if Yasu's sex was female then there wouldn't be so much gender confusion in the first place.

[cronnoponno]

Unless Yasu had a genderbender, then there'd be every reason to have it.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

While I agree with you, I do have to add that HOW WOULD BEATRICE KNOW if it was true? She was a fucking baby and any information about the incident would have to be taken secondhand. If Natsuhi says she pushed her off a cliff, REGARDLESS of whether she was right or wrong, Beatrice can only take that at face value.

There's also the secondary layer of how does the author know? Even if we take at face value that the cliff incident happened, there's no way anybody could know if Natsuhi ever actually did it or actually admitted to it. If it happened, she is basically the only person who could possibly have known she did it. And I think it very unlikely she ever would have told anyone who wound up surviving long enough to spread that information around. Strikes me as authorial speculation at best.

Just because Natsuhi-as-a-character admits something doesn't mean Natsuhi-the-person ever did, if indeed there was even anything to admit to.

[Jan-Poo]

, I don't think she should be "brought to justice" for her crime because she already bears the full weight of her sin. It would only cause unneeded strife to those around her.

You seem to think like Ryuukishi but in a real life situation I would disagree. I believe that in case of murder there is a moral obligation to come out and in particular the relatives of the deceased have the right to know.

There's also the secondary layer of how does the author know?

Then how does the author know what Rudolf did with Battler if not even his closest relatives knew?

I go with the assumption that since this is the last episode and those scenes are a reward it's basically Ryuukishi himself talking through his characters.
You have to admit that if all that stuff never happened it wouldn't have any narrative value whatsoever.