Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Teleutao]

I think you're over analyzing it...again.

Even if he doesn't need permission from Nagi, does Hayate know that?

Seriously, imagine if he had agreed to go out with Ayumu way back when. At the time I don't think it would have turned out well once Nagi found out. She would probably be better with it now, but how on Earth are you going to convince Hayate that he's capable of dating anyone? Athena's own training may come back to screw her over since he doesn't feel qualified to be anyone's boyfriend right now, especially now that he is needed even more by Nagi. Since every other butler in the series seems to be single, I'd guess that Hayate will be too until the end of the series, maybe not even then.

On a happier note, I think I found the perfect way to bring back the lighthearted humor of the story when they go back to Japan...it's time for Maria to make Hayate and Kotetsu work in maid outfits for a day. We already know from the Segawa Arc that she has a ton prepared and I bet she'd be just itching to do it (she seems to have a bit of a fetish for it, seriously it also explains how Nagi got so perverted).

[zodanhko]

Frivolity, it has already shown throughout the series that he can get a girlfriend while working as a butler which is why Ayumu can still chase after Hayate knowing Nagi likes him too. Nagi has no control over his body and life; he is currently working for her, not enslaving by her.
There is a difference between him able to involve in a personal relationship due to his rights, and him not wanting to involve in a relationship because of guilt.

Teleutao, for the other girls, Hayate uses the money excuse but it seems he completely forgot about when it comes to Athena.

[Rah]

Hoho... Teleutao, you thought of something interesting.

Indeed. Why would Athena be exempt from what she thought him? He's still incapable of "taking care of a girl", ANY GIRL. Now what? Will he change if Athena takes back her word by saying that she only said that to bind him to her? How unfair of her.. heheh, I like it how she's messing with him, even though it's just my imagination for now.

@zod

Give me a good example where they're living happily ever after. Don't forget that Nagi still needs to be protected, since very nice people are after her (say it's by Mikado's orders that nobody knows about at the moment). How do they do it? Hayate can't possibly see her for just an hour or less a day? That wouldn't really be a relationship. It could work if they moved in with her, but.. it seems very unlikely. At least from my perspective..

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Rah

Indeed. Why would Athena be exempt from what she thought him? He's still incapable of "taking care of a girl", ANY GIRL. Now what? Will he change if Athena takes back her word by saying that she only said that to bind him to her? How unfair of her.. heheh, I like it how she's messing with him, even though it's just my imagination for now.

Why does he need to change? I'd prefer he still follows it.

Talking about unfairness, may be Athena shouldn't had train Hayate to become what he is, so the others girl won't have a chance to like him. And it's not like she had that thought when she taught him.

Originally Posted by Rah

Give me a good example where they're living happily ever after. Don't forget that Nagi still needs to be protected, since very nice people are after her (say it's by Mikado's orders that nobody knows about at the moment). How do they do it? Hayate can't possibly see her for just an hour or less a day? That wouldn't really be a relationship. It could work if they moved in with her, but.. it seems very unlikely. At least from my perspective..

Your assumption of Nagi being target especially by Mikado is something I have to disagree, and I think otherwise.

The fact that both Ayumu and Hinagiku wanted to confess their feelings for Hayate knowing he has a huge debt means that they are satisfy going out with Hayate while he remains as a butler, a relationship opposite from your perspective. For Athena, from what she had been through, I can see that just knowing Hayate still loves her is already a great deal of happiness.
There is a thing calls a distance relationship, and it's not like Hayate follows Nagi 24/7, not even 15/7 I presume.

[Wolfnagi]

So at the end,
It doesn't really matter if Hayate can or cannot date the other girls,
it just matter that what will happen to him right now,
he could die when fighting Midas (hence your theory Rah) and couldn't date any girl at all,
let just see what will Hata plan?

[Rah]

A distance relationship wouldn't work, and it's too early to say how much he needs to protect Nagi now that she isn't protected by her wealth anymore. I gave the Mikado example because nobody would target her now that she's just an ordinary girl. She doesn't have the right to the inheritance anymore, she isn't rich anymore, thus who in their right minds would waste time with her? The only possibility I see is Mikado, or someone with a grudge on her (perhaps the other members of the Sanzen'in family..).

And about the confession part, Ayumu just doesn't want to lose. She's easygoing and is happy just to be with Hayate, although she's always wishing for more. I could say the same thing about Hina, but she doesn't know about Nagi's feelings. Every relationship starts in a somewhat similar fashion. Little by little you want to be with that person for longer amounts of time. Being with another girl, be it only job related or not, wouldn't work, because either jealousy would kick in, or they wouldn't be spending enough time together.

It's all about how much he actually needs to stay by Nagi's side, and what Nagi approves. Now don't take this the wrong way. Nagi isn't the dictator type and we all know that. She'd be very sad though...

I think we should leave this to Hata. Our points of view are conflicting too much on the level of our personal opinions. Some people would be fine with a long distance relationship, or with barely seeing each other, while the same can be said the other way around. It's impossible to guess in what direction it'll go..

But probably nothing serious is going to happen after Hayate frees Athena. At least not on the love relationship level. If I was Hata, I'd use that time for more character development, unless of course he plans to do the unexpected when they return to Japan.

And let's not forget Machina. He has feelings for Athena as well. What type they are we still don't know (like, perhaps he just wants to protect her, not to see her sad anymore, etc..), but perhaps a flag could be raised between them if he shows his GAR self (injured at that) after protecting Athena from a lethal attack?

2-3 weeks till spoilers. Wanna start counting the days? ^_^;

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Rah

A distance relationship wouldn't work, and it's too early to say how much he needs to protect Nagi now that she isn't protected by her wealth anymore. I gave the Mikado example because nobody would target her now that she's just an ordinary girl. She doesn't have the right to the inheritance anymore, she isn't rich anymore, thus who in their right minds would waste time with her? The only possibility I see is Mikado, or someone with a grudge on her (perhaps the other members of the Sanzen'in family..).

Whether it will work or not is subjective. I was explaining to you that it does exist, and how the girls can be/are satisfy with it as you wanted.

Your targeting statements are somewhat contradictory.

Originally Posted by Rah

And about the confession part, Ayumu just doesn't want to lose. She's easygoing and is happy just to be with Hayate, although she's always wishing for more. I could say the same thing about Hina, but she doesn't know about Nagi's feelings. Every relationship starts in a somewhat similar fashion. Little by little you want to be with that person for longer amounts of time. Being with another girl, be it only job related or not, wouldn't work, because either jealousy would kick in, or they wouldn't be spending enough time together.

Aren't you taking Ayumu and Hinagiku too lightly? They like Hayate and wanted to confess with their feelings. No, this is not a game for them; easy going, wishing for more, and doesn't want to lose is really way off, especially in describing their feelings for Hayate. They have their own ways to get Hayate.
Why little by little? You always want to be beside the person you love. Again, the "won't work" is subjective. Jealousy and "not spending enough time" is dependent on how much they trust and love one another.

Originally Posted by Rah

It's all about how much he actually needs to stay by Nagi's side, and what Nagi approves. Now don't take this the wrong way. Nagi isn't the dictator type and we all know that. She'd be very sad though...

Not what Nagi approves, but what he wants to do for Nagi. I don't think he can be by Nagi's side anymore than he already is living in her mansion.

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Frivolity, it has already shown throughout the series that he can get a girlfriend while working as a butler which is why Ayumu can still chase after Hayate knowing Nagi likes him too. Nagi has no control over his body and life; he is currently working for her, not enslaving by her.
There is a difference between him able to involve in a personal relationship due to his rights, and him not wanting to involve in a relationship because of guilt.

Actually, I would argue that there is no evidence that he can get a girlfriend while being Nagi's butler. Yes, Ayumu has confessed, and Hina was close to doing so, but in neither of these examples has Hayate accepted, so we don't know what would have happened. Even if Hayate were to accept, we also do not know what would happen if Nagi had told him outright to break up with his girlfriend.

I am aware of labour laws in our current society, but the concept of a butler in HnG is not the same as that in real life. We have seen Nagi (and Maria ) making Hayate do things that transcend what is normally acceptable in an employer-employee relationship in the real world, so it's really a moot point, especially since we have not seen butlers in HnG having relationships with people other than their masters.

Regardless, we're not here to discuss about labour law, contract law, or human rights, in HnG-verse. We're discussing about how the future plot of the manga will go, so whether he cannot be in a personal relationship because of his rights or because of guilt makes no difference. As far as the story goes, it is very likely that he cannot, or will not, be in a relationship with another girl without Nagi's approval, and this is pretty much sufficient in our discussion of the factors that would affect future events.

Of course, that doesn't mean that Hayate will end up with Nagi. We have seen Nagi give up her inheritance for Hayate, but what about giving up Hayate himself? I can imagine Nagi giving up Hayate and telling him to be with whoever his heart belongs to, leading to another arc where Hayate has to choose one girl for the last time. It would mean, however, that Hayate would be relieved of his duties, but I don't think that's impossible nearer to the end of the manga.

The way I see it, Nagi holds the cards here. I agree that Nagi isn't a dictator, and will most likely go with Hayate's decision. I believe that she will be mature enough to let Hayate go if she knows that Hayate's heart does not lie with her.

[Rah]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Whether it will work or not is subjective. I was explaining to you that it does exist, and how the girls can be/are satisfy with it as you wanted.

Your targeting statements are somewhat contradictory.

No, not really. Long distance relationships can only be achieved if the couple has something that binds them together. Love wanes over time.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Aren't you taking Ayumu and Hinagiku too lightly? They like Hayate and wanted to confess with their feelings. No, this is not a game for them; easy going, wishing for more, and doesn't want to lose is really way off, especially in describing their feelings for Hayate. They have their own ways to get Hayate.
Why little by little? You always want to be beside the person you love. Again, the "won't work" is subjective. Jealousy and "not spending enough time" is dependent on how much they trust and love one another.

Oh, but it is! They're merely 16 year old teenagers, and these are their first experiences at that. They probably don't have any clear cut goals in life yet, and are testing a little bit of everything. Trust is overrated. Blind love is stupid.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Not what Nagi approves, but what he wants to do for Nagi. I don't think he can be by Nagi's side anymore than he already is living in her mansion.

Like mine, this is your opinion. This is pointless. Hata is going to be the one to decide, and he'll do this based on his own point of view, and perhaps that of the fans.. who knows?

Originally Posted by frivolity

Of course, that doesn't mean that Hayate will end up with Nagi. We have seen Nagi give up her inheritance for Hayate, but what about giving up Hayate himself? I can imagine Nagi giving up Hayate and telling him to be with whoever his heart belongs to, leading to another arc where Hayate has to choose one girl for the last time. It would mean, however, that Hayate would be relieved of his duties, but I don't think that's impossible nearer to the end of the manga.

The way I see it, Nagi holds the cards here, and I agree that Nagi isn't a dictator, and will most likely go with Hayate's decision. I believe that she will be mature enough to let Hayate go if she knows that Hayate's heart does not lie with her.

Tssssss........... you're referring to the far future, while we're talking about the near future. I don't think she'd be able to let Hayate go after she sacrificed everything for him to be with her at this point. But true enough, it is possible that she would do that in the future. There are not enough Hayates in the manga.. haha..

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by frivolity

Actually, I would argue that there is no evidence that he can get a girlfriend while being Nagi's butler. Yes, Ayumu has confessed, and Hina was close to doing so, but in neither of these examples has Hayate accepted, so we don't know what would have happened. Even if Hayate were to accept, we also do not know what would happen if Nagi had told him outright to break up with his girlfriend.

Uhm...it's already evidence that Hayate has no restriction in believing he can love someone and expressing his feelings for someone while work as a butler. And it's already shown that he has no restriction in accepting Ayumu's confession but he chose not to. He, himself, in the manga realized and object to that belief.

Originally Posted by frivolity

I am aware of labour laws in our current society, but the concept of a butler in HnG is not the same as that in real life. We have seen Nagi (and Maria ) making Hayate do things that transcend what is normally acceptable in an employer-employee relationship in the real world, so it's really a moot point, especially since we have not seen butlers in HnG having relationships with people other than their masters.

Regardless, we're not here to discuss about labour law, contract law, or human rights, in HnG-verse. We're discussing about how the future plot of the manga will go, so whether he cannot be in a personal relationship because of his rights or because of guilt makes no difference. As far as the story goes, it is very likely that he cannot be in a relationship with another girl without Nagi's approval.

As it seems, the butler is only work for their master, so conceptually, it is no different than in real life. There are butlers that beat up his master to the bone, and butler who always make his master do work for him. Hopefully, you didn't deemed butlers as slaves.

The rights of the man working as a butler is most essential for the purposes of Rah's statement of needing approval...Speaking of the future plot, what right does Nagi has over him anyway as he belongs to Mikado as of now, not Nagi herself?
The differences is that he can decide for himself which is the base of this argument in the first place...

Originally Posted by Rah

No, not really. Long distance relationships can only be achieved if the couple has something that binds them together. Love wanes over time.

Oh, but it is! They're merely 16 year old teenagers, and these are their first experiences at that. They probably don't have any clear cut goals in life yet, and are testing a little bit of everything. Trust is overrated. Blind love is stupid.

Like mine, this is your opinion. This is pointless. Hata is going to be the one to decide, and he'll do this based on his own point of view, and perhaps that of the fans.. who knows?

You know, even after 10 years of being apart, Athena and Hayate still has feelings for one another. Need a better example?

Oh, but their feelings are true. Athena is an exception as a 16 years old?

One is and the other isn't. Pick your card?

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Uhm...it's already evidence that Hayate has no restriction in believing he can love someone and expressing his feelings for someone while work as a butler. And it's already shown that he has no restriction in accepting Ayumu's confession but he chose not to. He, himself, in the manga realized and object to that belief.

That's all well and good from Hayate's perspective, but we're missing the other side of the equation, which is Nagi's reaction. What would happen if Nagi were to tell Hayate outright that she did not want him to have a girlfriend? Would Hayate be bound by her words, or would he choose to disobey his master? We don't know because such a situation has not occurred yet. So far, all that has happened is first, Hayate has not accepted any girl's advances since he became Nagi's butler, and second, Nagi does not know that Hayate is being pursued by any girl at all. That is why there is no evidence that he can get a girlfriend.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

As it seems, the butler is only work for their master, so conceptually, it is no different than in real life. There are butlers that beat up his master to the bone, and butler who always make his master do work for him. Hopefully, you didn't deemed butlers as slaves.

That's why I said that the concept of a butler is different in HnG-verse than in real life. A butler beating up his master and switching roles with his master is simply not possible in real life, but is possible in HnG. A master who has control over whether or not a butler is allowed to date is not possible in real life (technically it is an acceptable clause in a contract but uncommon) but is possible in HnG. That's why the statement that Nagi has no control over Hayate's life/choice of girlfriend does not hold by virtue of real life laws alone.

No, I don't think butlers in real life are slaves, but in HnG, almost anything goes.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

The rights of the man working as a butler is most essential for the purposes of Rah's statement of needing approval...Speaking of the future plot, what right does Nagi has over him anyway as he belongs to Mikado as of now, not Nagi herself?
The differences is that he can decide for himself which is the base of this argument in the first place...

My statement was a response to your earlier one, which said that there was a difference between Hayate not being able to involve himself in a personal relationship due to his rights, and him not wanting to involve in a relationship because of guilt. I was saying that whichever the reason is, the effect of either one is that chances are low that Hayate will have a girlfriend while he is Nagi's butler.

Originally Posted by Rah

Tssssss........... you're referring to the far future, while we're talking about the near future. I don't think she'd be able to let Hayate go after she sacrificed everything for him to be with her at this point. But true enough, it is possible that she would do that in the future. There are not enough Hayates in the manga.. haha..

Hmm... in the near future, I'm guessing it will be about the trio trying to live without much money if Hata goes back to the usual comedy or Hayate's attempt to get back Nagi's inheritance if Hata carries on with the serious content. I'll try to throw in more ideas tomorrow since I just realised it's 5.30 am here o.O

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by frivolity

That's all well and good from Hayate's perspective, but we're missing the other side of the equation, which is Nagi's reaction. What would happen if Nagi were to tell Hayate outright that she did not want him to have a girlfriend? Would Hayate be bound by her words, or would he choose to disobey his master? We don't know because such a situation has not occurred yet. So far, all that has happened is first, Hayate has not accepted any girl's advances since he became Nagi's butler, and second, Nagi does not know that Hayate is being pursued by any girl at all. That is why there is no evidence that he can get a girlfriend.

Whether Nagi approves or disproves doesn't diminish the fact that Hayate can do it. It is dependent on whether he is willing to do it or not, not hers.
The excuse he always used was that he doesn't have the money to support a girl, never because of restrictions due to working as a butler.
Nagi's objection will put some weight on it.

Originally Posted by frivolity

That's why I said that the concept of a butler is different in HnG-verse than in real life. A butler beating up his master and switching roles with his master is simply not possible in real life, but is possible in HnG. A master who has control over whether or not a butler is allowed to date is not possible in real life (technically it is an acceptable clause in a contract but uncommon) but is possible in HnG. That's why the statement that Nagi has no control over Hayate's life/choice of girlfriend does not hold by virtue of real life laws alone.

No, I don't think butlers in real life are slaves, but in HnG, almost anything goes.

The role of butlers in HnG like Hayate is to train their masters. It is their job to train their masters. The beating and giving orders to their young masters are evidences that shown their authority while working which may be more than in reality. Conceptually, that means that butlers are not owned by their masters in HnG's world thus can not be a slaves. What right does Nagi have over Hayate with his life/choices if butlers are not slaves?

Originally Posted by frivolity

My statement was a response to your earlier one, which said that there was a difference between Hayate not being able to involve himself in a personal relationship due to his rights, and him not wanting to involve in a relationship because of guilt. I was saying that whichever the reason is, the effect of either one is that chances are low that Hayate will have a girlfriend while he is Nagi's butler.

The chance of him having a girlfriend is always low from the beginning.

[Rah]

*sigh*

Hayate can simply run away from everyone and everything to some distant country, and live there for the rest of his life.

Come on, base everything he might do on his personality, his past actions, his morals, and not on what's actually feasible or not.

He practically begged Nagi to give him a night off. What if she declined? He possibly couldn't oppose her now. Not after what she gave up for him.

There's no doubt that he'd jump off a cliff if Nagi asked him to do so, but of course not without a reasonable motive. Though... perhaps even without one. Hayate is a hardcore masochist. He LOVES being tormented!

Basically, he'd do anything for the person he's most grateful to. THEY DID SAVE HIS LIFE. HE IS THEIR PROPERTY. YOU CANNOT DISPUTE THIS FACT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS NEVER STATED BY EITHER NAGI OR ATHENA. If they simply said so, he'd have to comply. It's how he is... no other explanation which would require to further dissect his personality is required.

And the role of butlers in HnG is to serve their masters. Himuro and Kaede are bad examples. They're simply exploiting their masters. While some of the things they try to teach their masters actually make sense, they're applying them in the wrong way. Koutarou is Kadede's plaything, and Taiga is Himuro's pet. Koutarou won't be cured of his spineless cowardice by being beaten up all the time, and Taiga won't learn anything good by just throwing rose petals at Himuro, or by listening to his babbling about the importance of money. That might actually influence him in a bad way, especially at his age!

[zodanhko]

I'd like to see what he would do if Nagi declines. Even if she breaks the stone, I don't think Hayate would just stay at home doing nothing while knowing Athena is suffering simply because Nagi doesn't not allow him to go according his "morals, pass actions, etc." If Nagi's words weigh more than Athena's life to him, I would re-think of Hayate's personality.

Didn't Hayate and Athena had a fight 10 years ago because he has his own thoughts and decisions when he was her butler? Won't this make him not their property with the life saving and all?
If Nagi asked him not to date anyone, he may/will comply for her sake. If Nagi asks Hayate to love her, I don't think he will force himself to fall for her. He may do what she asked, but he doesn't need her permission to do anything concerning his personal life.

More than your opinion, I did trust Himuro and Kaede perceptions on the role of butlers which is to train their masters because they are hired for that reason . They practically speak of their role out loud in front of everyone describing it to Hayate; I see no reason for them to lie, may they perform well or weak on their job.

[Rah]

Hayate might find a flaw in her orders and circumvent them, or ignore them completely if he deemed them too unjust, or something he couldn't accept under any circumstance. Though he'd come back to face the consequences later. He's just like that. But then I ask myself, why did he ask her for permission to go save Athena, if he'd go regardless of her answer? There's probably no deeper meaning there.. oh well...

Their fight 10 years ago isn't something you should think too deeply about. Hayate didn't fully understand his role as a butler (if there really is a solid definition of that role in HnG that someone actually follows). Athena had him around only to fill her loneliness, not to have him educate her. Not like he could, since she was way above his level, and still is...

If Nagi asked him to die he'd have to die. Simple as that. He owes her his life. Though he might object at first if it was just her whim without any real meaning. Unless she'd thoroughly reeducate him beforehand to obey every command. Brainwashed Hayate... hehe...

I'm saying all this but something inside me is screaming out: WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONGGG YOU FOOOL!!! Yeah, I don't think he would actually comply with such an order without a valid explanation that he could accept. It might work if he were to become a sacrifice to save someone, though.

Himuro and Kaede are both useless punks doing drugs and drinking booze. THEY LIE! Kay, I exaggerated a little bit.. just a little..

Honestly though, it's not subjective. One is beating his master, possibly assuming that it's going to strengthen his character. He was also nowhere to be found when said master almost died by falling off a cliff while trying to save his friends from a bear. Failure I say, but.. he actually tried to save his friends by facing that bear. Kaede's methods might actually be good for Koutarou. Hell if I know. To me it looks more like he's enjoying beating him, than teaching him something. Too many times he strayed from what he was taught. He's a masochist as well. Besides being also gay for Hayate now. LOOK WHAT KAEDE HAS DONE!!

The other one is plainly just a bad example. He's overly greedy and exploitative of his young master's innocence / ignorance.

I'll agree that they do care about them, but they aren't raising them in the right way. You can't disagree with that, can you? Honestly, try to put yourself in their shoes. Do you think you'd get a good upbringing like that?

[zodanhko]

It's not surprising for Hayate to at least ask Nagi to go somewhere. It is not like he would just go without telling her anything.

The role of butlers was clearly stated by Himuro and Kaede. They are much more well-aware of being a butler than Hayate. They have much more experience than Hayate who ONLY recently becomes a butler compare to them; no, you CAN'T deny this no matter what trashes you think they are. No doubt in my mind that both Himuro and Kaedo understood the role of butlers in the HnG world much more than you do; they are the elite butlers and are well-known throughout the Hakkou.

The fight between Athena and Hayate has nothing to do with being a butler, Rah. And it was to counter your "she who save me, I will become her property." He doesn't understood being a property, too?

Nope, If Nagi asks him to die, he doesn't have to die. Having to die is different from willing to die.

The rest is subjective.
They have their own way of training which obvious is different from yours. And Kaede was already gone to another country for studying by the time of the mountain arc; he was no longer the little master's butler. Yes, he quits the job.

[Rah]

Lovely.

The role of butlers is BS. They made it up to fuck with them. It's all obviously a conspiracy. Kahahah! Yes, I can deny it. Just have~ All their statements are lies. It's all a dream anyway. Their "methods" are objectively wrong. Man, don't ya see their dilated pupils? They're obviously on LSD. You're right. Hayate forgot his toothbrush in the RG. DAMMIT, HAYATE! HOW COULD YOU!?

If Nagi politely asks him to drown in a toilet, he'll gracefully comply. Slaves should know their place. He'll need to come back for tea time, though. Can't miss that.. shit is too important! Kahahaha!

[leoblack9]

BUTLERS YOU GUYS SAY?

Why does everyone (I mean everyone!) forget about Klaus! He's the head butler of the Sanzenin for a reason. Poor, poor Klaus.

Well I don't know his role right now besides add more suffering to Hayate's life (which most other butlers in the series do anyway) and what the hell cause more laughs (as much as comedic as Hayate at some episodes).

Originally Posted by Rah

If Nagi politely asks him to drown in a toilet, he'll gracefully comply. Slaves should know their place. He'll need to come back for tea time, though. Can't miss that.. shit is too important! Kahahaha!

Klaus would be happy do that! Or so I think, I may have to agree 1/2 on Rah and the other half on Zodan.

That perfectly means I'm perfectly CONFUSED about this, HOW THE HELL DID we get into the Butler discussion again?

[frivolity]

Thinking back, Nagi did command Hayate with regard to his relationships before, but that was waaaay back in Chapter 4, when she told him not to lay a finger on Maria, in the figurative sense of course. To date, he has not done so, although this is inconclusive because Athena is a more important person to Hayate than Maria is.

I also wouldn't consider Himuro and Kaede as good role models for Hayate's duties as a butler. Don't forget that Hayate's predecessor, Himegami, had previously been fired, presumably for hitting Nagi or something (not sure about this though, wiki can be inaccurate). In addition, Klaus stated in Chapter 6:

"Ojou-sama's butler has to be strong... you never know when a kidnapping incident like the other day might happen again. If he can't give his life for and protect his master, he can't be hired."

That statement is a more accurate account of the duties of a San'zenin butler as compared to Himuro and Kaede. So if we go according to Klaus' words, if Hayate decides not to give his life for Nagi, then he's out of a job. Simple as that.

Gah, it seems as if we're going further and further off track here. When the argument begins to meander into the things I learn in law school, it is a sure sign that the thread has been derailed . So let's get back on track by rewinding back to Rah's post, which Zod apparently took offence to.

#5487

Originally Posted by Rah

Yeah, there certainly are feelings between Hayate and Athena, but.. well.. I don't know..

Hayate will uphold his promise to forever protect Nagi, so if he somehow wishes to go out with Athena, he'll need Nagi's approval regardless of his own feelings OUT OF GUILT, or perhaps something else might happen? He might fall in love with Nagi at one point as well. It's too early to say, but speculating is always fun...

Now we have to wait till January to see what happens to them. What a pain...

It makes no difference anyway. Asking Nagi out of guilt, out of duty, out of boredom, the reason has no effect unless it changes in the near future. So let's carry on from here and go back to the futureeeeeeeee. Wheeeeeee.


By the way, wolfnagi, which country are you from? Your writing style looks VERY familiar.

[zodanhko]

@Rah-You can complain, and a lot.

@frivolity-No offense was taken on my part. And I thought that protecting the master is an obvious addition to the training which is why butlers are strong in the first place. Good role model is irrelevant. Regardless, my point was that THEY ARE NOT SLAVES using their role as butlers.
And...

Originally Posted by Rah

Hayate will uphold his promise to forever protect Nagi, so if he somehow wishes to go out with Athena, he'll need Nagi's approval regardless of his own feelings, or perhaps something else might happen? He might fall in love with Nagi at one point as well. It's too early to say, but speculating is always fun...

there was no "OUT OF GUILT" here. My whole point was that Hayate does not need Nagi's permission to date anyone: Hinagiku, Ayumu, Athena, etc.