News Stories

[MCAL]

Deputy who killed man after mistaking gun for Taser is an insurance exec who pays to play cop.

You've got to be kidding me...

[ganbaru]

Violence escalates in east Ukraine ahead of talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N40XD20150414

Ex-Blackwater guards sentenced to prison in Baghdad killings
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N425320150413

Indonesian Islamic parties seek ban on alcohol consumption
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N505K20150414

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Indonesian Islamic parties seek ban on alcohol consumption
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N505K20150414

Seriously?

Enjoy your capital flight retards.

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Indonesian Islamic parties seek ban on alcohol consumption
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N505K20150414

NUOOOOO !!!!
Why do they like to see us minority in Indonesia weeping? ;_;

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Seriously?

Enjoy your capital flight retards.

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

NUOOOOO !!!!
Why do they like to see us minority in Indonesia weeping? ;_;

I don't get it. Why should an Islamic party care if non-Muslims drink alcohol? Theologically the whole point of rules for followers is to make yourself different from others. I mean, Jews don't see the point of forcing everyone else to eat kosher. Dietary differences are suppose to make you different from a non-believer, setting you apart. If everyone eat and drink the same things regardless of faith then it loses all meaning.

[maplehurry]

According to this article,

"Lost claims to moral superiority and a lack of ideological difference to secular parties has made it difficult for Islam-oriented parties to compete in Indonesian politics."

So I think these two muslim parties just want to make a name for themselves.

[erneiz_hyde]

We do stupid things on a regular basis, yeah. While I do think some religious motive exist, this is probably more political.

ninja:

Originally Posted by maplehurry

According to this article,

"Lost claims to moral superiority and a lack of ideological difference to secular parties has made it difficult for Islam-oriented parties to compete in Indonesian politics."

So I think these two muslim parties just want to make a name for themselves.

Yeah, like so.

Also, possibly tangential, I suspect it also has something to do with the current Jakarta Governor recently making a statement about alcohol never killing anyone. The guy is also under flak from Parliament for trying to uncover their corruption (lol). It also doesn't help that he's of Chinese ethnicity AND Christian so there are movements to try to de-legitimize him. Well, maybe kind of how some Americans oppose everything Obama says.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I don't get it. Why should an Islamic party care if non-Muslims drink alcohol? Theologically the whole point of rules for followers is to make yourself different from others. I mean, Jews don't see the point of forcing everyone else to eat kosher. Dietary differences are suppose to make you different from a non-believer, setting you apart. If everyone eat and drink the same things regardless of faith then it loses all meaning.

While that may be one reason, there may be other reasons.

For example, alcohol is apparently forbidden to Muslims for moral/behavioral reasons according to this article: http://islam.about.com/od/health/f/alcohol.htm

With such kind of interpretation, desiring a universal ban isn't really all that surprising.

But either way, a universal ban also removes temptations from the actual followers and not make them feel more restricted.

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I don't get it. Why should an Islamic party care if non-Muslims drink alcohol? Theologically the whole point of rules for followers is to make yourself different from others. I mean, Jews don't see the point of forcing everyone else to eat kosher. Dietary differences are suppose to make you different from a non-believer, setting you apart. If everyone eat and drink the same things regardless of faith then it loses all meaning.

Err because those political parties are still dreaming of Islamic State of Indonesia (or being called Indostan)?


Anyway, alcoholic beverages is now a hot topic in South East Asia. Singapore, if I remember, already banned alcoholic consumption in public places over 10pm. Thailand is set to enforce law of banning selling alcoholic beverages over 10pm too. Though those two countries based their reason around drunk drivers...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by monster

While that may be one reason, there may be other reasons.

For example, alcohol is apparently forbidden to Muslims for moral/behavioral reasons according to this article: http://islam.about.com/od/health/f/alcohol.htm

With such kind of interpretation, desiring a universal ban isn't really all that surprising.

But either way, a universal ban also removes temptations from the actual followers and not make them feel more restricted.

As I say, isn't the whole point of dietary restrictions meant to be difficult? I mean I could make up a diet restriction that forbid you from eating rat poison or drinking cyanide, but that would hardly be a very useful religious restriction. If one thinks it is too tough to follow the dietary demands of one's faith, the issue shouldn't be about everyone else but themselves. If they lack faith then that is the problem, taking alcohol away from everyone else is just an admission of weakness.

[SaintessHeart]

Our late old man nailed it why all these people come up with lame ideas.

Lee Kuan Yew’s Insights on the Future of Islamic Extremism (Part II)

They know that to progress, you must master science and technology … But the Muslims believe that if they master the Qu’ran and they are prepared to do all that Muhammad has prescribed, they will succeed. So, we can expect trouble from them and so, it happened.

Muslim socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate … Islam is exclusive.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

As I say, isn't the whole point of dietary restrictions meant to be difficult? I mean I could make up a diet restriction that forbid you from eating rat poison or drinking cyanide, but that would hardly be a very useful religious restriction. If one thinks it is too tough to follow the dietary demands of one's faith, the issue shouldn't be about everyone else but themselves. If they lack faith then that is the problem, taking alcohol away from everyone else is just an admission of weakness.

Well, according to that article I linked to, alcohol is banned because it's bad/or makes you do bad things.

So it's not a matter of proving your faith or showing self-discipline, but about abstaining from things that could lead you astray/do things that you shouldn't do.

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

As I say, isn't the whole point of dietary restrictions meant to be difficult? I mean I could make up a diet restriction that forbid you from eating rat poison or drinking cyanide, but that would hardly be a very useful religious restriction. If one thinks it is too tough to follow the dietary demands of one's faith, the issue shouldn't be about everyone else but themselves. If they lack faith then that is the problem, taking alcohol away from everyone else is just an admission of weakness.

Some people just choose the easy way out, especially if they are the majority. Why must we preserve the temptation if we can just eliminate it?

[Ithekro]

It worked so well for the United States back in the 1920s and 30s.....

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibi..._United_States

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, according to that article I linked to, alcohol is banned because it's bad/or makes you do bad things.

So it's not a matter of proving your faith or showing self-discipline, but about abstaining from things that could lead you astray/do things that you shouldn't do.

That argument simply doesn't work. Banning isn't abstaining. Once you enforce it as a law it is no longer relevant as morality. It is flimsy once the religious angle is abandoned. It makes as much sense as Emperor Constantine locking Jews in a Church every Sunday, arguing that it would somehow convert them.

The facts are that banning alcohol by the government just leaves the rich and powerful to enjoy it exclusively. And the less well off just go on holiday elsewhere to get plastered. The argument is simply false. It isn't moral, and it isn't religious. It is nothing.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That argument simply doesn't work. Banning isn't abstaining. Once you enforce it as a law it is no longer relevant as morality. It is flimsy once the religious angle is abandoned. It makes as much sense as Emperor Constantine locking Jews in a Church every Sunday, arguing that it would somehow convert them.

The facts are that banning alcohol by the government just leaves the rich and powerful to enjoy it exclusively. And the less well off just go on holiday elsewhere to get plastered. The argument is simply false. It isn't moral, and it isn't religious. It is nothing.

The religious angle isn't being abandoned. The religious angle is what determines that consumption of alcohol is bad. So wanting it to be banned is a reaction from that and it has nothing to do with converting others. Religion and morality still play a part, although they may not be the only factors.

[ganbaru]

EU charges Google in Internet search anti-trust case
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N610E20150415

Congress approves formula fixing Medicare doctors pay
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N523O20150415

How the U.S. criminal justice system became an unforgiving machine
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debat...ial-profiling/

[JokerD]

Originally Posted by monster

The religious angle isn't being abandoned. The religious angle is what determines that consumption of alcohol is bad. So wanting it to be banned is a reaction from that and it has nothing to do with converting others. Religion and morality still play a part, although they may not be the only factors.

Except that Indonesia is not a Muslim country. Majority of it's citizens are muslims to be sure, but the country is officially secular. This is, in effect, imposing a religion's belief, which should have no bearing on the country, onto the country itself.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by JokerD

Except that Indonesia is not a Muslim country. Majority of it's citizens are muslims to be sure, but the country is officially secular. This is, in effect, imposing a religion's belief, which should have no bearing on the country, onto the country itself.

Exactly. The US has struggled with this for a very long time, because certain people really want to use Christianity for their own ends.