2010-07-17, 10:52 | Link #2161 | ||
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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And I am not saying what he did is okay, I still hate the bastard and wish he died horribly in all three routes. [quote] Quote:
Wonder how Shirou managed to sleep through that? Maybe he was hypnotized or something.
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2010-07-17, 11:40 | Link #2163 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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I'm not sure if that's actually canon or fanon, but even if it is true, he wasn't told how to go about it. He could have explained the situation to Sakura and been kind and gentle. But, no, he chose to humiliate her as much as possible, made no effort to make her enjoy it and treated her as his slave. And he was certainly never told to abuse her and hit her like he did, or to kidnap and torture her to use her as bait for Shirou, or to use the poison on her that activated the worms (Zouken gave it to him with the obvious intention that it would get used, but he never actually ordered Shinji to do it), or to attempt to rape her when she was in a happy relationship with Shirou, or....
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2010-07-17, 11:57 | Link #2164 | ||
"Hey, Isaac?"
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2010-07-17, 12:58 | Link #2165 |
Mad Scientist #0000
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Here you go again Flinch. Where should I begin? Let's start with "base" Shirou and his "ideal":
Because RadiantBeam has yet to complete HF I put it into spoiler tags: Spoiler for moderate HF spoiler:
Man...how many times I need to tell this. He didn't forsake his ideal. No, he reforged it and purified it from all those delusional parts that Kiritsugu indirectly gave him. Saving everyone is kind of cool...until you face you would never be able to do it and it only leaves you empty without anything to gain. That is if you doesn't put a limit. Even superman does that, even batman and all superheroes in general. But not Shirou and it would make him an empty husk without personal feelings and happiness if he continues to walk onward...Like Archer. Now I explain actually what Shirou did in HF: Spoiler for obviously, HF:
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2010-07-17, 13:12 | Link #2166 | ||||
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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2010-07-17, 13:45 | Link #2167 | |||
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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2010-07-17, 14:03 | Link #2168 |
"Hey, Isaac?"
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Quite good, I thought. It's a horror story, so it's darker in tone than FSN and has less in the way of action and more in the way of imbuing you with a series of wonderful nightmares, but the writing style is similar enough that if you like one, you'll probably like the other. The art isn't as good, which can get kinda distracting if you've played FSN first (everything looks similar, but kinda off), but it's not a huge deal.
And it's widely considered that each of the FSN girls is based traits from one or two of the Tsukihime girls, so you're kind of getting to see the 'prototypes', which is fascinating. |
2010-07-17, 14:06 | Link #2169 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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Horror story?
I'm not entirely sure that's any more true of Tsukihime than of FSN, really. I mean, HF is certainly pretty damn horrific, especially if you take the time to think about the sort of things that have been done to Sakura over the last eleven years.... |
2010-07-17, 14:40 | Link #2170 | |||
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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Speaking of Ataraxia, I read that it's a sequel but it looks like it's more of an alternate story or something? Quote:
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2010-07-17, 14:47 | Link #2171 |
Test Drive
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Technically it's supposed to be a sequel, but the actual continuity of it is debatable in terms of the story and the characters. Last I heard it was considered discontinuity, but I could be wrong since I've only read about it from other sources. It hasn't been translated yet, has it?
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2010-07-17, 15:20 | Link #2172 | ||
"Hey, Isaac?"
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And as for Sakura, well... Kohaku. Sakura's past frightened the hell out of me, but she never did, even when she was evil. Kohaku makes my skin crawl on multiple levels. Quote:
Though given Type Moon's stand on canon, the answer they'd probably give was that it follows a version in which all of the Good Endings to each of the routes somehow happened simultaneously, even if that doesn't make sense, because that allows Shirou to have Saber, Rin, Sakura, Rider and Illya all there for maximum harem potential. With Tsukihime sequels, they like to say that all of these mutually exclusive things are in the same game because it follows the 'Satsuki Route' (which, for the uninformed, does not exist and is in fact a long running joke in its nonexistence). So I guess Ataraxia follows the 'Illya route' or the 'Mitsuzuri route' or something like that. And someone is translating it, but I don't know how far along they are. |
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2010-07-17, 15:20 | Link #2173 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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The whole point of making Sakura so sweet is that it makes you care for her as you would for a real person. You care for her and want to protect her, more than you want to see Shirou follow some silly ideal. The reason HF works so well is because she's so loveable, and Shirou is forced to either sit by and watch as the sweetest girl in the entire game (whose only source of happiness has been to be by his side) is murdered by her own sister or else risk the possibility of allowing the deaths of many other people as a result of her unconscious actions. Quote:
If you turned her into a bad guy without all the abuse, then she wouldn't be able to be a heroine. What makes her a heroine is the fact that she resisted Zouken's abuse and the pressure of Angra Mainyu for so damn long, and that even once she gave in to the corruption she still didn't break down entirely, and was able to fight it enough to spare Rin and Shirou (usually), and to eventually kill Zouken. Quote:
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Spoiler for HA:
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2010-07-17, 15:24 | Link #2174 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Also, you might want to re-read UBW. You focus a lot on guilt as Shirou's motivation, but that's primarily from Fate Route. UBW develops Shirou differently. |
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2010-07-17, 15:34 | Link #2175 | |||
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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In terms of which heroine I like, I am torn between Rin & Sakura. But right now I lean towards Rin because she is just so fun in all of the routes. I know, Sakura wasn't around as long and didn't have a chance to shine, but Rin teases Shirou so very well. But then again, I did love Sakura when she got jealous. I wished there was a longer epilogue in HF to see more of their everyday life.
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2010-07-17, 16:36 | Link #2176 | ||||||
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Age: 39
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2010-07-17, 17:17 | Link #2177 | ||
"Hey, Isaac?"
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I'm hoping it gets translated soon. Some more funny, cheerful memories to offset the depressing ones is just what the doctor ordered as far as Sakura is concerned. |
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2010-07-17, 18:00 | Link #2178 | ||||
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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2010-07-17, 18:41 | Link #2179 |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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Shirou is pretty lucky in HA.
I actually knew right off the bat that Rin was hiding behind a shell. You knew from UBW that she isn't a cold hearted bitch so there is a reason for her to act like one in HF. Also, she did grow up with Sakura until they are like six or seven, right? So she has some memory of them being true sisters, so with that and her confession of always Sakura, you knew she cared for her. She just didn't think there was a way of saving her without killing her. And Rin had no way of saving her, other than killing her. Only Shirou was able to, when he (predictably) made the Rule Breaker (or whatever it's called) to free her. Speaking of... they Rule Breaker freed her from everything except being a holy grail, right? I didn't understand that really. I thought it would have made her completely free from everything that Zouken did to her. It only freed her from Anru Magryu (sp?) then? I don't see Sakura intentionally making fun of Shirou. I can see her being a smiling devil like Rin, probably when Shirou does something wrong or what have you.
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2010-07-17, 18:59 | Link #2180 | ||
"Hey, Isaac?"
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And as I understood it, yeah, it just freed her from her connection to that. The Holy Grail thing is a result of modifications to her physical body, not a mystical link that Rule Breaker could sever. It just broke her link to the Grail energies she was channeling, so while she's still a 'Grail', there's just nothing to fill her anymore. Except Shirou. God, that was awful. EDIT: Page claim for filthy innuendo! |
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fate/stay night, visual novel |
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