Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Rising Dragon]

Charades is something Mao wins at, too.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The status quo just wouldn't do at that point. The Black Knights were growing stronger and the problem needed to be dealt with. Euphy just provided an easy out that could be dissolved once the terrorists had lost any chance at recovery. One month, maybe two, and operating costs alone would have caused the group to collapse into itself.

Not only that, the SAZ was only really supported by the Elevens, participants were all numbers and it has been noted that Britannian participation was extremely low. Peaceful coexistence is only appealing to those that were down trodden not to the ones who were in the "better" class.

[Betteroffer]

@ Morbosfist: (I'll be trying address each bit of your text with a number, since I'm getting issues with the quote setup on my end.

1. I was aware of her mentioning that she had already sent a message of somesort to the mainland expressing her renouncing of her position in line for the throne, I was just using it as an example to say that from what I saw of the global political situation between Britannia and everyone else, the SAZ was actually not the beautiful "peace as a weapon" strategy everyone thought it was, and that realistically an official pushing the idea forward would have been rebuked or punished for attemptin it. I don't know what they'd do to Euphemia since she'd already renounced her claim to the throne. Perhaps call it treason or some form of criminal negligence as a ruler?

2. I meant that we know Conrelia would have said no to the idea even if a Viceroy had the power to put forth new experimental government systems in Areas. She's the type who prefers combat to politics, and would see the SAZ as a denial of her own ideals. She agreed because she loved Euphemia, even though she seemed to have gone behind her back to Schneizel to suggest this.

I suppose Schneizel could go either way on his plans to contain the other colonies if they tried to rise, or thoughts of using the SAZ as the example of a new colony-wide policy. If we're to believe his R2 characterization then I think he would lean towards the latter, since it would be preferable to fighting and further opressing people, not that I think he'd be unwilling to do the former.

3. Even if he doesn't encourage the conflict, he's the type who knows how to argue from a viewpoint to get those who do to agree with him. I hope I'm not misusing the expression, but isn't that what 'Machiavellian' means? convincing a leader to rule in te interest of the people by claiming it is actually in the leader's own best interest to do so?

4. I suppose this would rely on a variety of things, yes China would probably be a serious danger in terms of their "quantity has a quality all its own," military strategy, but it can come down to more than simple brute force, especially when Schneizel is involved. He might be willing to try that trick Lelouch used in R2 episode 7 with the seabed gas to damage alot of the fleet, but he would also attack them diplomatically as well.

As long as he could keep them from mostly getting a sustained foothold in Japan, he could be sending negotiators to the Eunuchs, but also to the royalists like Xing-ke to offer some behind the scenes aid. Beyond that, India is known from R2 to not be thrilled with serving the Eunuchs, so Schneizel could possibly use any signs of prolonging the conflict to encourage them to start making problems of their own. India was incharge of their equivalent of the Camelot project if I recall, at least, it's where Rakshata hailed from, not that she was overly nationalistic.

I think more of the Code Geass world would need to be fleshed out to better guage this, but I admit I would probably end up conceeding you this point.

5 and 6. I suppose Suzaku could be stubborn enough to hold out until the attack trully began, but I do think Euphemia would be easier to convince/break. She was having immense bouts of self doubt about herself at the time, since no one seemed to take her seriously. Everyone was being all "Just shut up and look pretty Euphie, it's all you're really good for," and then Nina came in and their conversation made her believe that she could still do something, which was the SAZ. As you (and she herself) said, it was her selfish request to get her family back. However, if Lelouch walked in and laid down the facts for her, I believe that she would at least get that he was right and that her selfishness was indeed about to destroy lives rather than help them. She herself admitted she could never overcome her siblings in their respective abilities, and she apparently loved and trusted Lelouch enough to want him back even though he killed Clovis, so I think she would trust his words.

7. My best guess (again I will admit to the epic shakiness) at making this work would be having her on the Avalon while it flies over the battle area and serves as a sort of refueling station for Suzaku and possibly Zero (who has made a temporary truce) in the Gawain, as they go out, blast at the enemy, and come back to recharge.

The Avalon starts taking hits somehow and they decide to abandon it, or set it on a suicide course with the Chinese fleet and begin to evacuate. Then, either it doesn't have a suicide course option or it takes one of those "oh-so convinient to the plot" hits that makes the originally intended course impossible without someone staying behind to fly the thing. Euphemia orders everyone into the shuttle(s) and realizes at this moment that there is still something she can do (hooray).

She pulls the captain/leader goes down with the ship bit and hits the close button on the shuttles, and they deploy, leaving her own the ship alone. Obviously there is the issue of her knowing how to fly the Avalon, but she may have received some basic instruction on at least something like steering. After all, in canon we see her work a Gloucester and and automatic weapon, so it isn't too far of to claim she may have gotten some training in military vehicles.

Again, a shaky setup, but a decent writer could probably make it work, or find some other way for her to pull a heroic sacrifice. Of course, her 'heroic sacrifice' would then be used by V.V. to drive a wedge between Suzaku and Lelouch, which keeps her role in the "destined to tragically screw over the two guys she loved the most, despite her pure intentions" vein.

8. True, unless Lelouch could have argued himself and the BK into some legally recognized (and funded) position, the resistence movements were pretty much screwed. Darlton had used the confusion the SAZ made to catch the NAC and the Kyoto 6 and forcibly disband them. With Euphemia no longer able to accept the Viceroy title from Cornelia when the latter finished cleaning out the die hard terrorists, I suppose that the Area would have gone to a new Viceroy if Cornelia didn't elect to stay to be close to Euphemia. I agree that the next viceroy (like that Carares guy) would almost certainly abolish the SAZ as soon as the terrorists were mostly cleaned out, and with the Kyoto 6 disbanded, there would be next to zero funds for them to secure aid and resources, making things alot harder.

I suppose Lelouch's comment about 'amending his plans to include the SAZ' could be him heading for China and restarting the BK there, with some promise to return to Japan if/when he was needed again, but only Lelouch knows.

In the end though, I still think it would have been interesting for Lelouch to go the route of insighting China and Britannia to duke it out over Japan, with him planning to step in a nd pick up the pieces.

@Snowdevil Crow: Thanks, I'm kind of proud of catching this, since fans are always agreeing with Lelouch that the SAZ was a 'puppet state' but no one really addresses why it was trully bad, aside from "Oh noes! teh rebellion iz teh screwdzorz!" They mostly say it was just 'too small' and an 'insult to the pride of the Japanese' (note that the turnout seems to suggest the Japanese seem to feel otherwise )

Only recently have I seen people point out that it could easily be dissolved by the next Viceroy, leaving Japan to once again turn to Zero for help, but now he has lost considerable momentum, and the power of the Kyoto 6's money and influence.

And yes, I was thinking about putting the idea in a fanfic, but I am not the sort of person who could do this idea justice, I'm more the type who can only see things as "Hey, what if scene 'X' went this way instead?" so anything I did would quickly lose intrigue and momentum, and degenerate into a repeat of canon. I was actually writing this out here in the hopes that someone else would stumble upon it and do it justice.

Feel free to use this idea if you do write a story. If possible, maybe direct them to this thread if any of them are of a political and/or creative enough mind to offer their own thoughts and input on this idea. It's one of those points in a story that could be taken in dozens of interesting directions in the right (i.e. not my) hands, and inspire some interesting debate.

Speaking of fanfics, there's a new one on fanfiction.net called "Code Geass Megiddo." It has long chapters but just reading the opening calender near the bottom...my blood is still 15 degrees colder now than what it was when I read that...this guy pretty much owned the entire Code Geass series in his PROLOGUE. Two words: Operation Nero.

You will never look at Schneizel the same again.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

2. I meant that we know Conrelia would have said no to the idea even if a Viceroy had the power to put forth new experimental government systems in Areas. She's the type who prefers combat to politics, and would see the SAZ as a denial of her own ideals. She agreed because she loved Euphemia, even though she seemed to have gone behind her back to Schneizel to suggest this.

I suppose Schneizel could go either way on his plans to contain the other colonies if they tried to rise, or thoughts of using the SAZ as the example of a new colony-wide policy. If we're to believe his R2 characterization then I think he would lean towards the latter, since it would be preferable to fighting and further opressing people, not that I think he'd be unwilling to do the former.

4. I suppose this would rely on a variety of things, yes China would probably be a serious danger in terms of their "quantity has a quality all its own," military strategy, but it can come down to more than simple brute force, especially when Schneizel is involved. He might be willing to try that trick Lelouch used in R2 episode 7 with the seabed gas to damage alot of the fleet, but he would also attack them diplomatically as well.

As long as he could keep them from mostly getting a sustained foothold in Japan, he could be sending negotiators to the Eunuchs, but also to the royalists like Xing-ke to offer some behind the scenes aid. Beyond that, India is known from R2 to not be thrilled with serving the Eunuchs, so Schneizel could possibly use any signs of prolonging the conflict to encourage them to start making problems of their own. India was incharge of their equivalent of the Camelot project if I recall, at least, it's where Rakshata hailed from, not that she was overly nationalistic.

I think more of the Code Geass world would need to be fleshed out to better guage this, but I admit I would probably end up conceeding you this point.

Well Cornelia actually never really agreed to it so much as having been forced into it with Euphie going over her to Schneizel. Cornelia herself said as much.

The Chinese Federation itself was pretty much a non factor to Schneizel though. The Eunuchs already agreed to the political marriage between Tian Zi and Odysseus so he would not even need to make trouble. With the marriage he absorbs half of the Chinese Federation into Britannia with the Eunuchs becoming Britannian nobles, Britannian presence and eventual assimilation of the rest of the Chinese Federation gains legitimacy. Stirring up trouble with the loyalists would just cause himself problems.

India wanted independence from the Chinese Federation not really with the Eunuchs themselves, that is the reason they are supporting Zero.

[Revolutionist]

I got a question about Cornelia, is she a tool up until joining the good side and apparently putting aside her prejudices in R2, or has she always been a good person?

Cornelia does commit a few questionable acts, but I don't think she does anything that can be called Evil. My sister (she's only up to ep 19 of S1) thinks that "she needs to get fried by Kallen and die terrible death like Kewel". Her reasons are simple, Cornelia orders civilians to be murdered in Saitama ghetto, executes JLF inside that mountain hide out and is outwardly racist towards Japanese.

Do you guys agree with that?
I tried to point out or rather "make excuses for a racist bitch", that all she does is in accordance with military protocol. The guys in Saitama ghetto were harboring terrorists , an act of treason which is punishable by death. Then there's the first and second JLF massacres. The first one when she enters the mountain hide out through the tunnel, the guys could have put down their weapons and surrendered, but instead opened fire... Can we say for sure Cornelia would have executed them all even if they surrendered because it'd take too long to interrogate them all? She was justified in shooting them. Finally there's the second JLF massacre in the harbor. Yes the order was harsh, but they were dealing with terrorists, and like the guy in charge told Suzaku, they were surrendering to buy time so Katase could escape.

I'll concede that she does use heavy handed tactics, but 1) She's dealing with terrorists who do not play by the book and 2) The "Elevens" murdered one of her brothers, shit's personal.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

The guys in Saitama ghetto were harboring terrorists, an act of treason which is punishable by death.

This logic assumes the entire ghetto is guilty, and that she was doing it for the purpose of routing those terrorists. Neither is the case. Unarmed civilians, like in the first massacre, were shot dead without hesitation, and it was done for the sole purpose of exploiting Zero's ego.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Then there's the first and second JLF massacres. The first one when she enters the mountain hide out through the tunnel, the guys could have put down their weapons and surrendered, but instead opened fire... Can we say for sure Cornelia would have executed them all even if they surrendered because it'd take too long to interrogate them all? She was justified in shooting them. Finally there's the second JLF massacre in the harbor. Yes the order was harsh, but they were dealing with terrorists, and like the guy in charge told Suzaku, they were surrendering to buy time so Katase could escape.

Those two instances have merit as military actions. I won't deny that.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I'll concede that she does use heavy handed tactics, but 1) She's dealing with terrorists who do not play by the book and 2) The "Elevens" murdered one of her brothers, shit's personal.

Just because she's dealing with terrorists does not make her actions justifiable. Point two is plain stupid, I must say, the kind of twisted logic from which all racism springs.

[Nogitsune]

I say Cornelia is a very flawed person, but not "evil".
She has her good points, and I'd rather someone gave her a slap on the head to make her see the light than someone shooting her for "punishment". And look, CG did that! ...More or less. But that's R2 for you, so I won't complain.
Amongst other things, I like Cornelia because she's may be cruel at times, but she doesn't expect to be treated differently if the situations were reversed.
Not to mention I'd be a hypocrite if I disliked her for ordering massacres. As a rabid Clovis fangirl, that would be pretty laughable of me. xD

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Just because she's dealing with terrorists does not make her actions justifiable. Point two is plain stupid, I must say, the kind of twisted logic from which all racism springs.

There is also the fact that if the terrorists killing her brother gives Cornelia justification, then it should also work the other way around. How many brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers died in the Ghetto cleansings done by both Clovis and Cornelia.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I say Cornelia is a very flawed person, but not "evil".
She has her good points, and I'd rather someone gave her a slap on the head to make her see the light than someone shooting her for "punishment". And look, CG did that! ...More or less. But that's R2 for you, so I won't complain.
Amongst other things, I like Cornelia because she's may be cruel at times, but she doesn't expect to be treated differently if the situations were reversed.
Not to mention I'd be a hypocrite if I disliked her for ordering massacres. As a rabid Clovis fangirl, that would be pretty laughable of me. xD

Cornelia was angry at Lelouch for killing Euphie, yet look at her massacre of the Ghetto to draw out Zero. She herself has also taken away the precious people of countless others who may not even be guilty of any crime other then being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

There is also the fact that if the terrorists killing her brother gives Cornelia justification, then it should also work the other way around. How many brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers died in the Ghetto cleansings done by both Clovis and Cornelia.

You know, I actually think Cornelia cared more about that than Clovis (who couldn't have cared less at that moment). She's just very ruthless.
I agree with the way she is portrayed in the novel stage 1 there, which I know isn't canon, but fits my perception of her pretty well. In the novel, she destroys a terrorist hideout where many children under the age of 15 are present, and she says that she will treat them like any other enemy, but despises those terrorists for using them.
It's rather hypocritical of her, but it shows that she's aware of what she is doing, and she never claimed to be just. She gets angry when people hurt her family, and I'm pretty sure she'd understand it if people got angry at her for hurting their family. It doesn't stop her, though, and she doesn't want anyone but Euphie to think of her as a kind person.

Cornelia was angry at Lelouch for killing Euphie, yet look at her massacre of the Ghetto to draw out Zero. She herself has also taken away the precious people of countless others who may not even be guilty of any crime other then being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think Cornelia would harm her own family members, so you can only compare her actions to Zero's. Lelouch was her brother, and she herself was never shown to be cruel towards a family member.
And of course she got angry at Zero regardless. She's human.
But she also spoke of revenge, not justice. That would have been extremely hypocritical, especially in regards to her plan to avenge Clovis, who wasn't a saint himself.

[demon_god04]

Well, having not read the novel, I cannot comment on that, but the very fact that it is not considered canon is a point you yourself admit. The key word is your perception of Cornelia which may not match what the writers of the anime have intended. I also can say I agree with X material because it fits into my perception of X character but that does not validate it what so ever.

You stipulated that Cornelia was ruthless and that if the situation was reversed, she would expect the same in kind. However I pointed out the fallacy in that statement in regards to how she was presented through her actions. Revenge for Clovis who himself was cleansing a ghetto and killing who knows how many would be moot if Cornelia really thought like that as it was perfectly acceptable to kill the enemy commander. The very fact that Cornelia wanted revenge means that she does expect to be treated differently under the same circumstances or at the very least, did not accept those same things happen to her.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Well, having not read the novel, I cannot comment on that, but the very fact that it is not considered canon is a point you yourself admit. The key word is your perception of Cornelia which may not match what the writers of the anime have intended. I also can say I agree with X material because it fits into my perception of X character but that does not validate it what so ever.

I was just trying to make my perception of her more clear by using the novel as an example.
But actually, some of the stuff in there makes a lot of sense, and I don't think the writer - however talented - made it all up. Can't say what is canon and what is artistic freedom, but the guy seems to have an incredibly good grasp on the characters most of the time. Not that I agree with everything, but I wouldn't put it on the same "not canon level" as certain other material.

You stipulated that Cornelia was ruthless and that if the situation was reversed, she would expect the same in kind. However I pointed out the fallacy in that statement in regards to how she was presented through her actions. Revenge for Clovis who himself was cleansing a ghetto and killing who knows how many would be moot if Cornelia really thought like that as it was perfectly acceptable to kill the enemy commander. The very fact that Cornelia wanted revenge means that she does expect to be treated differently under the same circumstances or at the very least, did not accept those same things happen to her.

And I say that revenge is not justice, and that you can yearn for revenge while knowing you are not an innocent victim.
That's humans for you.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I was just trying to make my perception of her more clear by using the novel as an example.
But actually, some of the stuff in there makes a lot of sense, and I don't think the writer - however talented - made it all up. Can't say what is canon and what is artistic freedom, but the guy seems to have an incredibly good grasp on the characters most of the time. Not that I agree with everything, but I wouldn't put it on the same "not canon level" as certain other material.



And I say that revenge is not justice, and that you can yearn for revenge while knowing you are not an innocent victim.
That's humans for you.

And yet, it is still a third party writer's perception of what the original writers intended. Not saying it can't be good, just that in an argument about the nature of a character as they are presented in the show, it does not serve as a solid backing for your ideas.

Okay, so how does that back your claim that Cornelia expects to be treated in the same way as she as for others? Revenge is an impulse against those who you percieved as have wronged you in some way. Having that impulse means that she did not believe that the numbers had any right to do what they did. The innocence of Cornelia is not in question, just your claim upon her thinking.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

And yet, it is still a third party writer's perception of what the original writers intended. Not saying it can't be good, just that in an argument about the nature of a character as they are presented in the show, it does not serve as a solid backing for your ideas.

Never tried to use it as that.
But is it certain that the original writers didn't give up a bit of background information, as it apparently was the case with Stage 0? Not as much, but still... some things just fit too well together.

Okay, so how does that back your claim that Cornelia expects to be treated in the same way as she as for others? Revenge is an impulse against those who you percieved as have wronged you in some way. Having that impulse means that she did not believe that the numbers had any right to do what they did. The innocence of Cornelia is not in question, just your claim upon her thinking.

If anything, I think Cornelia was of the opinion that those people had wronged her siblings, not her.
It's not logical, but that's exactly why she doesn't need to think: "Oh look, they are Elevens - they should not even be thinking of revenge, no matter what I do to them or their loved ones."
She saw Clovis as a very kind person, and I won't even start about Euphie. She won't forgive terrorists for killing them, even though she herself is not a saint.
I'm pretty sure if she killed your little sister - even if you were an Eleven - and came to her personally for revenge, she wouldn't look down on you. Destroy you, yes, but not spit on your grave.
It is twisted and, in a sense, pretty hypocritical. But not in the way that makes me want to bite people.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Never tried to use it as that.
But is it certain that the original writers didn't give up a bit of background information, as it apparently was the case with Stage 0? Not as much, but still... some things just fit too well together.



If anything, I think Cornelia was of the opinion that those people had wronged her siblings, not her.
It's not logical, but that's exactly why she doesn't need to think: "Oh look, they are Elevens - they should not even be thinking of revenge, no matter what I do to them or their loved ones."
She saw Clovis as a very kind person, and I won't even start about Euphie. She won't forgive terrorists for killing them, even though she herself is not a saint.
I'm pretty sure if she killed your little sister - even if you were an Eleven - and came to her personally for revenge, she wouldn't look down on you. Destroy you, yes, but not spit on your grave.
It is twisted and, in a sense, pretty hypocritical. But not in the way that makes me want to bite people.

Frankly I'd be happier if Taniguchi put his original ideas into the novels but without more information discussing that farther is moot.

Yes, Clovis was a very kind person that was massacring a ghetto. Facts around the Euphie incident as they were, she was caught on camera ordering a massacre. Those in the royal family are prepared for death. And in both those incidents, massacres were ordered and Clovis and Euphie were killed in the fighting. She was the one that wanted revenge for the wrongs done to her family in both the Clovis and Euphie case. And point of fact, she did look down upon the Numbers, quite a bit in fact. Need I bring up Suzaku as an example? Suzaku saved her ass and he was only promoted to warrent officer while even Loyd remarked that in any other case, ie. if Suzaku was not an Eleven, he would have likely gained a title. Darlton himself said it, despite Cornelia's policy, he sees Suzaku as useful despite him being a number. Note that he did that despite of Cornelia's views.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Frankly I'd be happier if Taniguchi put his original ideas into the novels but without more information discussing that farther is moot.

True, but since those things only really matter to me when writing fanfic, I'll just take that what makes sense to me and leave the rest.
It's "maybe canon" for me. xD
In discussions, though, it's just a handy example to show what I mean.

Yes, Clovis was a very kind person that was massacring a ghetto.

I think that sums up his personality pretty well!
Errr...

Facts around the Euphie incident as they were, she was caught on camera ordering a massacre. Those in the royal family are prepared for death. And in both those incidents, massacres were ordered and Clovis and Euphie were killed in the fighting. She was the one that wanted revenge for the wrongs done to her family in both the Clovis and Euphie case.

Cornelia tends to only see what she wants to see.
As I said, she's very flawed.
And she could never believe that Euphie was anything but innocent; you might as well tell Lelouch Nunally fired a bomb that killed-... oh, wait. xD
Similar with Clovis. She knew why he went to Area 11, and that he wanted to make it a peaceful resting place for their late siblings without being unfair towards the Japanese.
And that's all that mattered to her there. It's not so much about "right and wrong" as about "how dare you kill my awesome siblings!".

And point of fact, she did look down upon the Numbers, quite a bit in fact. Need I bring up Suzaku as an example? Suzaku saved her ass and he was only promoted to warrent officer while even Loyd remarked that in any other case, ie. if Suzaku was not an Eleven, he would have likely gained a title. Darlton himself said it, despite Cornelia's policy, he sees Suzaku as useful despite him being a number. Note that he did that despite of Cornelia's views.

I go with the idea of a twisted "noblesse oblige" here.
Just like she said to Schneizel that the rulers should be responsible for a stable economy, she thinks that the subjects aren't the ones who should do the fighting.
She is ruthless, but once she has destroyed people's fighting spirits completely, she will view them as Britannia's responsibility.
The problem with the Elevens is the "completely" part.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I go with the idea of a twisted "noblesse oblige" here.
Just like she said to Schneizel that the rulers should be responsible for a stable economy, she thinks that the subjects aren't the ones who should do the fighting.
She is ruthless, but once she has destroyed people's fighting spirits completely, she will view them as Britannia's responsibility.
The problem with the Elevens is the "completely" part.

What? It was clear, she was way too much discriminated towards Elevens, and Suzaku is the best example. What are you trying to establish here exactly? Trying to make it seem a bit candy-ish?

[azul120]

Yeah, there's no sugarcoating things here. Cornelia was racist and ruthless towards Numbers.

Which makes it hilariously ironic how one blogger covering the series mourned her apparent demise in R2, calling her honorable, while blaming both Suzaku and Lelouch for Euphie's death.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

What? It was clear, she was way too much discriminated towards Elevens, and Suzaku is the best example. What are you trying to establish here exactly? Trying to make it seem a bit candy-ish?

Yes, because breaking people's will completely and then patting them on the head is totally candy material! xD
It's more like a bad yaoi fic... wait. Omg. I bet Cornelia writes those! Only that hers are as well-written as they are disturbing... uhm... where were we?

All I'm saying is that Schneizel once explained to her: "The desire to resist shows a presence of mind; if you shear away too much of that, all vitality in the Area will be lost."
And Cornelia answered: "Then we Britannians shall be the life force; isn't that enough?"
And that bringing this in context with the "rulers and subjects" thingy that brought that up and her personality in general, it means that she has some rather twisted views, but wouldn't look down on an Eleven any more than she usually does for seeking revenge against her. If anything, she would respect that... and then destroy them regardless.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by azul120

Yeah, there's no sugarcoating things here. Cornelia was racist and ruthless towards Numbers.

Which makes it hilariously ironic how one blogger covering the series mourned her apparent demise in R2, calling her honorable, while blaming both Suzaku and Lelouch for Euphie's death.

What? lulz
Ok, let us accept the blame for Lelouch for the sake of it, but Suzaku for what?

And yes, Cornelia is racist towards Numbers. Plenty of evidences, even for the stone{r}s to remember. 8D

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

What? lulz
Ok, let us accept the blame for Lelouch for the sake of it, but Suzaku for what?

Strictly not-my-opinion reason to follow: Zero is a terrorist and Suzaku let him go behind closed doors with one princess when he already murdered one prince and tried several times to capture another princess. Personally, I don't blame Suzaku for that. How was he supposed to know what would happen at the time?