Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by The American Average

ah this episode whole a lot of nothing, Cagalli acts like a dumb idiot, Athrun goes "whos the enemy urgah" shinn yells at said idiot, Luna still useless in and out of suit, see shinn's partents die in Flashback again, Blue logos being as ridiculously evil as much as possible, Pink explosions destory landmarks across the world, (still find it funny that when they named off all the cities that got hit they mentioned Philadelphia and Quebec who remembers those places =p) comet hits earth plot point quickly forgotten, Lacus singing, Kira stargazing (hur dur made joke)

all joking aside when Minerva lands in the ocean and all the little kids get excited to see the sea, it just shows how inexperienced they are and star-y eyed there are you know big ass rock hits earth they go "ooh big body of water". makes me wonder why didn't the Captain call HQ to get a better roster of personnel when they got to a safe spot to contact ZAFT. a lot problems would have been pasted by later in the series if they would have gotten better people on board.

Cant blame them for being awed by the ocean, the largest body of water most of them have ever seen irl was only big enough to be considered a huge lake (those found on the PLANTS)

Lol yeah they should have called for reinforcements, of course the writers wanted to mirror SEED so they skipped over that lol. They could have EASILY been given a full crew and MS compliment when they were based (the time when Athrun joined them in the Saviour, which is a bit later)

[Destined_Fate]

How is Lunamaria "useless"? Did you not see her fighting the Gaia and the such in the earlier episodes? Lunamaria is a very capable pilot and despite this being her first time fighting in real battle she's been able to keep up against Gundams.

Shinn gives Kira vibes with how he's quickly able to get his head back in the game and reprogram his settings for re-entry and to grab Athrun who was free falling.

I don't recall Lunamaria in the original asking for Shinn as they're burning through the atmosphere. Did she ask that in the original or was that in the Specials?

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

How is Lunamaria "useless"? Did you not see her fighting the Gaia and the such in the earlier episodes? Lunamaria is a very capable pilot and despite this being her first time fighting in real battle she's been able to keep up against Gundams.

Really you don't know? She literally does nothing through the entire show. with the zaku gaia fight she didn't come out the clear winner either she lost a gun pack, beam ax, and a leg should she really be that proud that "win" I don't even think the Gaia was even damaged in that fight. after that fight and on earth she just sits on the Minerva launch pad shooting Murasame's like clay pigeons. Then she gets blown to hell putting her in a cast through the later half of the series by the time shes in the Impulse she is back seated to "girl that needs protection from boy wonder" <---- for the good that did ¬__¬
I really like Luna probably my favorite female character in Destiny but her only shinning moment was in the Gaia Zaku fight (sorta) in the first episodes. can't really count the Destroy gundam in the early 40 ep, she wounded it with the help of Ray while he finished it off, while Shinn shot down like 5 of them in record time

[Destined_Fate]

I don't see that, she has been fighting since the start of the series and even messed up the Gaia in Melee when she was using a Long Range Loadout.

The Gaia was damaged, you even see parts fly off it. Stellar was not being her and she managed to work well with Shinn when they were fighting the Three Gundams all by themselves. Had it been just Shinn I doubt the battle would have ended the way it did. That isn't fair to not give her credit for the Destroys, she helped shut them down through their teamwork and she was essential in putting the final nail in the coffin for Logos.

Lunamaria gets too much flake for what happened at the Battle of Orb. At least she tried. What was Kira and the others doing instead of giving a confused look? Hell Kira's Strike Freedom is an expert at long range combat and beam spam, what stopped him from stopping Logos than and there?

Lunamaria also can act as a spy such as when she gathered info on Athrun that Durandal later looked over before deciding to toss Athrun under the rug.

For a regular Coordinator she did a lot, especially when gods like Kira, Athrun, Shinn, and Rey are running around stealing all of the spotlight.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I don't see that, she has been fighting since the start of the series and even messed up the Gaia in Melee when she was using a Long Range Loadout.

The Gaia was damaged, you even see parts fly off it. Stellar was not being her and she managed to work well with Shinn when they were fighting the Three Gundams all by themselves. Had it been just Shinn I doubt the battle would have ended the way it did. That isn't fair to not give her credit for the Destroys, she helped shut them down through their teamwork and she was essential in putting the final nail in the coffin for Logos.

Lunamaria gets too much flake for what happened at the Battle of Orb. At least she tried. What was Kira and the others doing instead of giving a confused look? Hell Kira's Strike Freedom is an expert at long range combat and beam spam, what stopped him from stopping Logos than and there?

Lunamaria also can act as a spy such as when she gathered info on Athrun that Durandal later looked over before deciding to toss Athrun under the rug.

For a regular Coordinator she did a lot, especially when gods like Kira, Athrun, Shinn, and Rey are running around stealing all of the spotlight.

The Freedom and Justice were still engaged with Legend and Destiny when Djibril made his escape, it would have been too risky to let them show their backs and attempt to take the shuttle

Luna was fresh and their main option, though I could not see why the Minerava could have targeted the shuttle with one of their main guns

Uh shes not your average coordinator, shes a red coat (which meant they graduated at the top of their class in academy), her main problem, like the other pilots, was lack of experience, and a higher end mech (at first)

[The American Average]

with the Gaia fight, she still lost, her suit was damaged far more than stella's I don't see how Luna should be proud of that, she survived but that it. She should have known better than to get in a CQC with a ranged MS against a MS designed for CQC.

with spy thing still till this day i have no clue how Arthun Zala body guard extraordinary, Kira Yamato spider senses boy (lacus assassination ep air vent -_-) didn't see Luna up on that hill http://img53.exs.cx/img53/2410/pic48uo.jpg look not exactly hiding, she doesn't even wear camouflage or anything just chillin' gonna start her radio show any minute

With Shinn needing help later he would have found a way out of all the situations he got into, Kira got into some pretty dicey problems too and he made it out just fine.

with the destroy gundams, Shinn would have taken out all the Destroy gundams by him self if he wanted to, same with Ray they had better tech and skills.

with the team work thing, she gave legend anti ship sword threw beam boomerangs at Destroy cut it and Destroy fell crushing its self.... Luna 0 gravity 1

with orb battle she should have aimed where its going not where its at.
using Kira as an example is really stupid for comparison he could fly into battle in a flipping bathrobe a curbstomp anything and everything he wanted

with lack of experience is silly they (luna ray shiin) have been fighting through the entire series she should have enough skill to shoot down an aircraft after all she shot down fly murasame's in a chaotic battlefield just fine heck she even has a better suit now and has flown it a couple times already she should know how to use it well
i do wonder with the red coat thing, does that mean she was a top practice pilot or did she just have good grades at the academy

[Destined_Fate]

The first fight she was fine, the second fight(and first time in space) she managed to fight off the Gaia and work with Shinn to drive off the three Gundams, the third fight she took damage(mainly the leg) but still managed to damage the Gaia and stall her. Their real mission after all was to break the thing a part and Lunamaria keeping Stellar on her and off the others can be considered a win for her as Stellar failed in her mission to take them all out.

Would haves, could haves, what ifs, and the such aren't important. For all we know Shinn could have randomly tripped over and died from head trauma if things happened even slightly differently. What did happens is that Lunamaria helped take out the Destroys, participated in many major battles, worked as a spy, and was essential in fully taking out Logos.

Djibri had plot armor, that's the only reason she failed as she has shot down far harder and more agile targets targets like Murasame's.

[The American Average]

wasn't her first fight not even a fight? iirc her Zaku's engine just blow up and she has to retreat. with the first fight in space and Gaia fight they just played a game of chicken and she was starting to loss ground when Shinn saved her butt after Shinn fought off Auel and Sting, then theres Ray just sitting there =p, they also lost 2 other machines i know that's not Luna fault (just makes me wonder why Minerva didn't resupply when they got back to base) with the second Gaia fight, just watch the fight in ep 6 luna only got in 2 goodish hits first and best was; the zaku kick which didn't hurt the gaia, second hit was the beam ax throw to the Gaia which also did no damage to it, her price for those 2 hits, her leg, beam gun pack, and a beam ax (which the Minerva must have a zillion of those considering how many of them they throw throughout the series) i really don't see how Luna keeps getting put up against Stella both their suits are designed for 2 different purposes, she should really be fighting auel or something not gaia.

with what ifs, this whole series can be what ifs that is just how the plot works. just blowing it off is strange, a lot of fun discussions can be started with what ifs,

She did help with the Destroy gundam yes she did, but Shinn could have done it all by himself. Now with the Spy business, she was just stupid obvious while "spying" on Athrun i have no clue why he and Kira & Co. didn't see her http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s54E69jvAho that's what it looked like to me lol

Djibri had plot armor, well yes, so does Cagalli and she still got hit pretty hard and got saved, the Djibri scene was just dumb and poorly animated they could have done something like loyal Blue logos Murasame's trying stop her and succeeding letting Djibri get away. better that then just making Luna out to be an idiot with bad aim.

personally i just think Luna was put up against thing in the story she couldn't have dealt with, like i said with the Gaia fight why send a slower ranged suit to battle a faster, stronger, close range suit. its not luna fault the Captain was an idiot sending her out like that. The whole series just seemed like the Minerva didn't know how to fully use its arsenal, they just relied on Shinn the whole time.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by The American Average

with orb battle she should have aimed where its going not where its at.
using Kira as an example is really stupid for comparison he could fly into battle in a flipping bathrobe a curbstomp anything and everything he wanted

with lack of experience is silly they (luna ray shiin) have been fighting through the entire series she should have enough skill to shoot down an aircraft after all she shot down fly murasame's in a chaotic battlefield just fine heck she even has a better suit now and has flown it a couple times already she should know how to use it well
i do wonder with the red coat thing, does that mean she was a top practice pilot or did she just have good grades at the academy

1. A shuttle fast enough to punch through gravity and escape the earth's gravity is quite different than shooting a mobile suit. I would also like to note that due to its speed, the distances grew greater than most MS engagement zone by the second. She may have been aiming ahead, but for all we know the shuttle could have been just going way too fast to the point that you would have to shoot extremely ahead, which for a beam rifle is probably out of effective range. Of course most of this is theoreticalm and in the end as all of you stated before Djibril had plot armor

2. I would assume both grades and simulations, otherwise you would be a normal green uniform with a GINN/whatever unit whatitsname with the beam claws in the shield

[Destined_Fate]

Could have, maybe. We may never know as anything could have happened. What did happen is that she helped Shinn quickly take out all the Destroy's and thus turning the battle in their favor almost immediately as Logos had put so much faith in the Destroys only to see Shinn, Lunamaria, and Rey destroy them so easily.

The Captain didn't have any choice since the other pilots were killed so fast and Lunamaria "is" a ZAFT Red. Despite being severely outclassed by the Gaia, because of its mobility and melee expertise, she still managed to hold her own and not get killed or completely defeated.

[S.Freedom]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Blue logos

Just to nitpick for a bit. But it's either Blue Cosmos or logos not Blue logos. They are two separate organizations, although they do have the same general goal.

As for Luna's lack of awesome moments. I'm with you, they chickified her horribly imo.

@Destined_Fate As The American Average has pointed out. It still doesn't explain why Talia couldn't or didn't ask for reinforcements from any of the ZAFT bases that Minerva visited. Nor does it answer why Athrun or Heine both of whom are FAITH members along with Talia thought of doing the same. As to my understanding being a FAITH members would have given them the authority to do so. Otherwise having said FAITH membership is wasted on all three.

[Destined_Fate]

And who could they use? Grunts? Lunamaria is a ZAFT Red and she has given them results. Sure more bodies would help if they need more meatshields but they seemed to do just fine with a smaller elite group. It's only when Kira started showing up that their elite group started to show cracks and even than their small elite group was all that was needed to take out multiple Destroys and later ending Logos completely.

[The American Average]

well you really think the whole army of ZAFT is only cannon fodder? Heine Literally came from nowhere they could have easily written a bunch of new highly skill soldiers into the show FAITH is a elite program i'm pretty sure there is much more than the 3 or 4 we saw in the series.

seeing how Luna is a red suit while Dearka is green in Destiny doesn't really show ZAFT rank colors is based on skill alone.

besides those destroys were completely pushover by the 40 ep anyways anybody could shoot one down, just like those mobile armors in the beginning of the show Gells-Ghe and Zamza-Zah are the names.

once again using as a defense Kira is really bad, he could go up against anybody in the show and they can use any MS and Kira can curb-stomp them in a grunt suit if he wanted, he is the Undefeated of the East in this Destiny show =p

[S.Freedom]

@Destined_Fate Then what was the point of making Talia and Athrun FAITH members if they never used the authority it gave them? I mean the only ones who came anywhere close to using the authority of being a FAITH member was Shinn and Rey when Shinn launched during ZAFT's attack on Orb.

[Skye629]

The FAITH rank gives authority and freedom to operate directly under the chairmans orders

However at the same time they cant just go running around moving forces, that can be extremely detrimental to stability and other planned ops, they have to operate within the bounds of what the chairman have set for them on the given mission, and they would most probably need his permission for certain actions

For example, all the ZAFT bases on Earth following Break the World was on high alert, for justifiable reasons, and ZAFT couldn't just drop in reinforcements and support from space, lest those actions be treated as invasion following the crisis (well not until after the AF launched their preemptive nuclear attack)

However I find it hard that a single base could not even spare a single GINN to the Minerva's cause

[S.Freedom]

Yet sending reinforcements to their earth based bases is exactly what ZAFT ends up doing in an episode or two. So yes each of the bases Minerva visited had spare suits for Talia or Athrun to requisition from them.

And FAITH members had the authority to plan and execute missions on their own. Part of that would necessitate requisitioning forces from nearby bases. And since the Minerva was for all intents and purposes the flagship of ZAFT. It would be appropriate for it to have a full compliment of MS.

[Aquaman OS]

Would have yes, but Durandal seemed more interested in raising Shinn as a super solider, to the point where he was still sending them to battle when Shinn was the only available pilot. And it worked, because Shinn grew to the level of Athrun and Kira, and guys like them are worth 20 Zaft grunts.

And considering Durandal said he was trying to model Minerva after Archangel it makes sense that he'd leave them deliberately undermanned since Kira gained his skills by being the only real pilot AA had (Mwu was at best backup thanks to his weaker machines) and Shinn ended up doing the same (Even though Shinn actually had two other MS's and another Gundam backing him)

[S.Freedom]

Yeah I know, I'm just trying to apply logic to the Minerva's situation. As well as trying to figure out the purpose of giving either Athrun or Talia membership in FAITH if they weren't going to actually use the inherent authority it granted them. Because as it stands it's something of an informed ability since we never really see anyone use said FAITH membership for anything.

[Aquaman OS]

I think making them Faith was simply to better control them. With Athrun it gave him assurance he could return to his original important position and not be tossed back into the rank and file like Dearka was, as well as Durandal assurance that he didn't want to overstep his bounds and that Athrun should tell him if he thought he was.

This was a lie obviously because when Athrun did just that Durandal promptly set him up to be arrested and or killed. But for awhile it worked. If Durandal said he wanted Athrun to rejoin Zaft, but he was gonna be a green coat, tossed into some squadron full of people he didn't know, and assigned to space patrol, Athrun would have walked right out and headed back to Orb.

He also might have been hoping Athrun would use that authority to go off to look for Kira and Lacus and give him a hint of where they were. Unfortunately Athrun only met them once, and Kira didn't even bring Lacus that time.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I think making them Faith was simply to better control them. With Athrun it gave him assurance he could return to his original important position and not be tossed back into the rank and file like Dearka was, as well as Durandal assurance that he didn't want to overstep his bounds and that Athrun should tell him if he thought he was.

This was a lie obviously because when Athrun did just that Durandal promptly set him up to be arrested and or killed. But for awhile it worked. If Durandal said he wanted Athrun to rejoin Zaft, but he was gonna be a green coat, tossed into some squadron full of people he didn't know, and assigned to space patrol, Athrun would have walked right out and headed back to Orb.

He also might have been hoping Athrun would use that authority to go off to look for Kira and Lacus and give him a hint of where they were. Unfortunately Athrun only met them once, and Kira didn't even bring Lacus that time.

Well Dearka did sorta defect lol