2013-04-02, 14:05 | Link #481 | |
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As for lesser series, they could have smaller budgets, or are experimental one-offs that were only designed to last one season just to see. |
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2013-04-02, 15:03 | Link #482 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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That's not deduction, that's speculation. The DVD sales of Nanoha have only been increasing each season and they're producing more merchandise than ever before.
Your logic about why they stopped making anime series relies solely upon the reasoning that it's no longer profitable, which the sales dispute. Last edited by Keroko; 2013-04-02 at 15:16. |
2013-04-02, 15:18 | Link #483 | |
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To ignore this, is to ignore the very concept of why a company is in business: to make money. This is the very foundation of our economic system. You'd have to have a damn good reason to counter that logical deduction. True, it might not be correct... but absent any other explanation that has evidence behind it, that is the default answer. Remember, profit is revenue minus costs. Another way to look at it, is that Seven Arcs was making more money with each season, but due to costs, wasn't actually making any profit. After three seasons, someone finally said, "Hey, we ain't makin' much on this after three seasons. Time to pull the plug and focus on things that make money, like manga and maybe movies." |
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2013-04-02, 15:37 | Link #484 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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There are legions of series and movies that remained dormant on TV and cinemas before suddenly coming back with another series. Star Wars went without a movie for 16 years, the DC universe has an even more consistent habit of waiting a bit and then throwing another DC series on TV and the anime scene is no stranger to this tactic either. Gundam, macross, Strike Witches, Sora no Otoshimono, these are but a few I remember from the top of my head that had years of nothing or one or several movies and OVA's in between series, but I am quite confident the list will only grow. And how in the forty seven blue blazes of hell do you even justify your logic that StrikerS wasn't making them money? It sold over four times as well as the first season. Season one was profitable enough to warrant season 2, which was profitable enough to warrant season 3. Do you have any explanation why StrikerS "supposedly" didn't make more money despite being the best selling season of them all? Less theories presented as facts, more actual fact backing up your theories please. Otherwise they remain just that: Theories. |
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2013-04-02, 15:48 | Link #485 |
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Keroko, you can NOT, by ANY means, use star Wars, DC, Gundam or Macross in your argument about series being dormant for years, because ANY of those will undermine your argument.
Do you have ANY idea how many times the original Star Wars trilogy was re-released over the course of 28 years? Any new media that we got for Star Wars was E.U. in books that were licensed by Lucas, but were written by other authors. Really, it wasn't the media that kept Star Wars alive, it was the fans there. And DC, they do NOT make their money off of their animated series, they make it off of the comics and movies. I mean, sure they lucked out with Bruce Timm there, but if you take a look at the comics, DC incorporated Timm's versions of Mr. Freeze and Harley Quinn into DC canon. DC, like Marvel, makes most of the money off of the comic sales, not TV. Macross is a HUGE series in Japan and we have Robotech here in America. Either way, they still are able to make a ton of money easily despite being off the air for years. And Gundam? Come on, Keroko, that's the WORST example you could use of a series that goes dormant for years on end. That franchise gets a new series every year that lasts a good 40-60 episodes.
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2013-04-02, 16:05 | Link #486 | |||
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S1 cost: $100 S1 revenue: $75 A's cost: $150 A's revenue: $100 StrikerS cost: $200 StrikerS revenue: $150 And along comes people who say, "StrikerS made the most money out of all them! So why'd they cancel it?" Answer: Profit = Revenue - Cost. In this case, they lost money on each of them, and someone eventually said: "Forget it, this isn't making us money. We're losing money. Let's quit this and focus on stuff with higher returns." Note: it may not actually be Seven Arcs themselves that loses money. If the networks that purchase the shows are the ones losing money via losing viewership during those time slots, they may have said, "Look, Seven Arcs, it may be profitable for you to sell DVDs, but we're losing viewers putting it on TV. Sorry, not buying it anymore." Hence, you can have "high" DVD sales, but ultimately low viewership, or declining viewership. In which case, Seven Arcs cannot make another Nanoha series because it can't convince any networks that it can attract sufficient viewers. The original argument was that Nanoha was supposed to be incredibly popular. If it were, it could get another anime series. But someone is losing money here, and that's why we aren't getting one. This is what the industry is like, Keroko. This is industry + economics. You can make all the money you want, but if your costs are higher, it makes business sense to kill it before you kill your company. Quote:
Or let me put it to you with one simple question: Do you want to make money? |
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2013-04-02, 16:20 | Link #487 | |||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Any franchise is kept alive by its fans. Without fans, there is no profit. Nanoha has shown it has fans keeping the franchise alive, as every single one of the currently running products is being bought. Ergo, there is no reason to assume there "won't" be any new series. Precedent for what we see here exists. Will there be a new series? I don't know. But to claim there will be none just because there hasn't be one for a while? Conclusion jumping. Last edited by Keroko; 2013-04-02 at 16:49. |
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2013-04-02, 16:34 | Link #489 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Which still leaves series like Sora no otoshimono and Strike Witches. Hardly the most public series, yet these also went through a period of series, no series, series, no series. Sora no Otoshimono even had a movie after its second season, and now season 3 is on the horizon.
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2013-04-02, 17:07 | Link #490 |
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There's no question - none - that if KyoAni made more Haruhi anime, there would be profits to be had. It would definitely be less risky than doing something experimental like Tamako Market.
And yet, KyoAni has not made more Haruhi anime in some time. The anime industry is often a weird industry, that makes decisions that can go against the grain. I don't doubt that 7-Arcs has its reasons for not making more Nanoha anime. But it's not impossible for that reason to be something other than commercial concerns.
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2013-04-02, 18:12 | Link #495 | |||
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license(s) > cost, in order to make a profit. Of course, this is also taking into account DVD sales. Even if the license(s) don't make up for it, you can break even or make a profit if you sell enough DVDs. But if the networks don't want your show because of low viewership (and hence, the network can't charge as much for advertising), then you can't support it on DVDs alone. If Nanoha was so popular, that DVD sales were enough, they could release OVA's and profit that way. They don't do that, either. For a movie, it is different. Seven Arcs can more directly reap ticket revenue, and since their hardcore fanboys will go see it multiple times, they can profit off a single person more often. So a movie will actually be a better option for a smaller, but more hardcore audience (especially if they can encourage people to see it multiple times). I wouldn't doubt that ticket revenue far outstrips what Seven Arcs can get for selling licenses, so with DVD sales being equal, the winner is the movie format. Quote:
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If you only knew how much companies spend on researching the market, getting facts and figures to determine whether something will sell enough to make a profit. Setting up focus groups, doing surveys, following day-to-day merch sales down to the yen. If Seven Arcs or KyoAni thought they could make money on a series, they'd do it. And another series, like Tamako, doesn't quite have bearing on whether they put out something different. Most companies realize that you innovate or die, so you constantly have to try new things to see if something catches on. It's part of the risk of the industry. It doesn't stop them from putting out something Haruhi if they wanted, and running both at the same time. |
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2013-04-02, 19:44 | Link #497 | ||||||||||||
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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And I've already said that I think Nanoha and Fate are the two mains of the whole franchise, while the other mains have their status for the series they first appeared in. This is just how it's always been. A characters is as significant as Tsuzuki wants them to be. Fate's a minor character in Force and Vivid, and I honestly stopped expecting her to even appear. Quote:
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Not that I personally have anything against it, 'cause y'know, miracle of the universe, etc. Quote:
Also, reading some other debate you're having. StrikerS looked terrible, I don't know why you think the cost to make a StrikerS episode would cost more to fund than a Nanoha a's episode, which looked significantly better.
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2013-04-02, 19:46 | Link #498 | |
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"None of the new side and secondary characters and antagonists got much development, so I couldn't care about them."
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2013-04-02, 21:24 | Link #500 | |
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But, if the movie establishes that Chrono has trauma from the Book of Darkness, shouldn't it get resolved somehow? granted, the series didn't do a good job with it either, which is probably why I haven't harped on it as much, but... Demi., minor, secondary and side characters should get development in a series depending on their importance to the plot over-all. Randy's a bridge bunny who's just there to report on stuff and press buttons, no need to give him much of anything, except you know, his name if you feel like it. Amy is Chrono's friend and is seen with him a lot. Does she need much development? No. You can just develop her as being a satellite character to Chrono and Lindy if you want to, maybe throw a line in on how she's really good at what she does, and that's all she really needs right now. Chrono, on the other hand, is a secondary character with ties to the Book of Darkness, so this *IS* something that should have gotten explored in the movie more than it did. So, who's to blame, Demi. for the characters having limited screen time? I already blame Tsuzki for how screwed up he handled them in the movie. Ultimately, Demi., regardless of what you, Triple_R or other think, Fate had the most screen time of the A's movie, and when she wasn't on, a lot of time (Lindy and Arf talking comes to mind), it seems to be helping develop Fate. And, yes, she needs development after S1, I know that. However, what about others? Nanoha STILL has ZERO development in the movies.
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