Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[Keroko]

I dislike most of Heavens Feel mostly because the greater part of the story is 'pity poor Sakura'

Now I know people fall for this kind of stuff, but to be honest, I didn't. It's personal preference, but by the time of the final battle, I felt exactly the way Rin worded it.

"---------Oh. What of it?"

... Which is also why I think the last part > the rest of Heavens Feel route. Because it's finally time to put that deranged mind of hers back in place. While I felt the majority of the Heavens Feel route to be a drag, everything after Sakura going evil had me leaning forward with a thumping heart and hand tapping the 'next' key.

I also dislike how Heavens Feel emphasized the 'Shirou is a jackass when it comes to girls and sex' more then any other route. Of course, the fact that it has 3 ero scenes did help in that regard.

[SirWence]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

That's because you're not Shirou?

Shirou is not just the player character. He's Shirou. He's his own damned character and will do whatever the hell he pleases.


It pisses me off when VN players complain when their player avatars do what they want rather then what the player wants. I think that's pretty damned interesting, and it allows them to extend themselves beyond just being the protagonist.

The trick is being able to see their point of view rather than just your own.

Hmm No. I gave the reasons I disliked it. None of which are shown here. I know very much so I am not Shirou . By 'forced choices' I meant something even Shirou from Fate and UBW would never do I would never do and most anyone would never do. It was a FORCED plot , I agree with the poster above me. By the time I had to hear Sakura complain even more in that battle of sisters , of why I need to pity her more, I was simply much the same "Oh.. so your point?" But you can enjoy Heavens feel or not. I felt it a contrived scenario that was.. tedious to get through.. and I went through the 'sex' scenes as fast as possible in HF . Actually I just worked to finish it to be done with it , as fast as possible. I still rate it of the highest overall Visual Novels simply because of the Fate and UBW scenarios. BUt I see no more reason to debate further as to why I personally * disliked the HF scenario

[Keroko]

Here's something I just realized running through HF again for the Tiger Stamps, but what was the cause for True Assassin to be born? In neither Fate nor UBW he appears, and yet in Heavens Feel he just... pops out of nowhere. What was the factor that gave birth to him?

[SirWence]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Here's something I just realized running through HF again for the Tiger Stamps, but what was the cause for True Assassin to be born? In neither Fate nor UBW he appears, and yet in Heavens Feel he just... pops out of nowhere. What was the factor that gave birth to him?

A very contrived plot.. I believe that is the factor that gives birth to him lol

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by SirWence

A very contrived plot.. I believe that is the factor that gives birth to him lol

Stop that.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Here's something I just realized running through HF again for the Tiger Stamps, but what was the cause for True Assassin to be born? In neither Fate nor UBW he appears, and yet in Heavens Feel he just... pops out of nowhere. What was the factor that gave birth to him?

Using the "fake" Assassin's body as a catalyst to summon him? There's an interlude early on about it.

[Keroko]

I realize how he came into this world, but not the why. Between Fate and UBW, there are two different factors that cause the change in storyline. In Fate, Archer is injured, in UBW, he isn't. That's the factor that caused the divergent storyline. However, I see don't see -or rather I haven't found- a factor that lead to Hassan's birth. Why was he not born in the other two scenarios? What led to his birth happening in Heavens Feel?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I realize how he came into this world, but not the why. Between Fate and UBW, there are two different factors that cause the change in storyline. In Fate, Archer is injured, in UBW, he isn't. That's the factor that caused the divergent storyline. However, I see don't see -or rather I haven't found- a factor that lead to Hassan's birth. Why was he not born in the other two scenarios? What led to his birth happening in Heavens Feel?

It might have had something to do with Sakura's furthered interaction with Shirou and Zouken's meeting with him.

That's all that changed between Fate and HF, so that must've had something to do with it.

[Jaden]

Oh people are discussing F/SN here, nice.

How True Assassin was summoned is indeed a mystery, one could even say a plothole. I think it's quite clear Zouken is the cause, because in HF he decides to join the war, in Fate and UBW he's just rotting in his cellar. Zouken then becomes True Assassin's master, so it's fair to assume Zouken summoned True Assassin.

It's plothole-ish because in a way Zouken outperforms Caster in magecraft. You could say that it is possible because of the "Hassan rule" It's programmed in the grail that the assassin class servant is to be one of the Hassans. After all, they are the greatest assassins without competition, in the original meaning of the word. So Zouken's summoning ritual is able to undo Caster's summoning of the fake Assassin, which relied on loopholes, because he's backed up by the grail.

Well that's how I convinced myself anyways.

[Keroko]

Hmm, so the appearance of True Assassin can be explained as being summoned by Zouken.

This solves one plothole... but creates another. Why didn't Zouken do this in the other two routes?

In other news... though I suppose the people here are probably already aware of it, Amukunau from Beast Lair, who is translating Fate/Hollow Ataraxia has started a blog to keep himself motivated. Being that it's only a couple of days old, there's not much in the way of news yet, but if you're looking for a place to keep updated on the translation of Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, this is the best the place.

[Nosauz]

I think if you follow Jayden's thinking then its the heavy contact that shiro has with Sakura that brings Zoken to the forefront since he was alive during the 4th holy grail war. But even then I always felt the Zoken/Sakura thing was a little weak, I was hoping in heaven's feel that sakura and Rin would develop more since their lives as sisters play a much more important role where as in UBW, the focus is more of Shiro and rin interactions, and shiro and archer interactions.

[Keroko]

Well, I understand why route-wise Zoken came to the forefront, however storywise it is something I don't understand. Why would Zouken's centuries old ambitions change just because Shirou didn't talk to Sakura as much? It's a bit of a plothole in that regard...

[Tyabann]

Zoken never intended to enter the 5th Grail War.

However, as a couple of the Interludes explain, Sakura decides to enter the war after hearing that Rin is also a competitor, and perhaps figures that she might also take Shirou away.

Zoken thus decides to enter the war himself, alongside Sakura.


That's what I got out of it, anyway.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Zoken never intended to enter the 5th Grail War.

However, as a couple of the Interludes explain, Sakura decides to enter the war after hearing that Rin is also a competitor, and perhaps figures that she might also take Shirou away.

Zoken thus decides to enter the war himself, alongside Sakura.


That's what I got out of it, anyway.

That is an interesting idea, although I do think that it's likely to be more complicated than that.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by aldw

That is an interesting idea, although I do think that it's likely to be more complicated than that.

Well, what's your explanation?

[scoopnokes]

I dont' know if anyone has asked this, but is there a translation for this game for the non-literate of japanese people.

[rastilin]

I dont' know if anyone has asked this, but is there a translation for this game for the non-literate of japanese people.

Many, many people have asked this; many times before. And the answer is yes.

[DarkHonour]

Too bad the translation for fate/hollow ataraxia won't be out for a long time. =P

[Keroko]

*shrug* Well, Fate/Stay Night took us several years, if we could wait for that, waiting for this shouldn't be that hard. We know that the translator is putting in effort to get this translated. Of course, a lack of percentages does make one wonder, but at the same time, since we don't know how far he is, he could be farther then we think.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, what's your explanation?

Rather not say, cause it can go both ways.

[ShinMasaki]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*shrug* Well, Fate/Stay Night took us several years, if we could wait for that, waiting for this shouldn't be that hard. We know that the translator is putting in effort to get this translated. Of course, a lack of percentages does make one wonder, but at the same time, since we don't know how far he is, he could be farther then we think.

I've gone through all of Fate/Hollow (self translation) and it is a big task...the convenient thing about it is once you complete the game, you can simply select scenes to play/read through but perhaps the hardest thing to do is to make a good flowchart. I'm in the middle of getting a written translation out for the game as well but it's just a daunting task...trying to get this done ASAP so I'm well rested and prepared for Mahou Tsukai no Yoru later in the year. Translating really isn't all the hard or time consuming. The hard part is taking your translation, converting it over to another language and re-editing the existing text/software. Making a reliable flowchart for Fate/Hollow is impossible, I believe.



As far as my little input to the whole above discussion...Here's a quote from the game in the scene you get after getting all the Tiger Stamps. "I said it before, but Fate is Shirou's story. The question of how Shirou should exist is presented in Saber and Rin's routes. One of the answers is Sakura's route, "Heaven's Feel"."

Simply, the game is saying F/SN is about Shirou hinting that the true story to the game is UBW. One answer of how he lives his life, one possible story is Heaven's Feel. A story made so each of the main heroines gets their own story.

I just see Heaven's Feel as a fanfic Nasu wrote to his own story. He can be a fan of his own work, correct? In a fanfic, you are allowed leeway to create events and force things upon the characters that would normally not occur for the sake of convenience.

Events with plot holes are allowed such as True Assassin's birth, Zouken's involvement in the Grail War, the birth of Sakura's 'shadow', the whole Archer's arm's magic circuit dominating Shirou (lol), etc. A fanfic is simply the author's representation of events that could happen. It is not necessary to explain everything so long as it works for your story.