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View Poll Results: Log Horizon - Episode 22 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 6 | 14.29% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 33.33% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 26.19% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 11.90% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 7.14% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 2 | 4.76% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 2.38% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll |
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2014-03-02, 09:45 | Link #81 | |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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Certainly don't feel like Minori has a huge chance here. She's got the advantage of being more forward, but a lot to overcome if only in changing how she's perceived. Early on she and Touya were looked at as kids. Are some similarities to Shiroe (at least in battle positioning) that can give her a boost, but just feeling like her emotions are just being used for the sake of drama.
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2014-03-02, 10:26 | Link #82 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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call a girl to dance is not "something a awkward person active can do", keep saying who she is "special" or who he only does the things cuz she is with him and things like that are "flirting at last is what i learned about "flirt", i'm not talk about "hotheaded" we have also the shy and the dense type where their are more like "awkward cuz their dont actively does things, awkward peoples are most of the times ranter "passive" or completly insecure about what to do or does the things in a horrible way, not all that gentleman as he does, shiroe not even close to be a "social awkward" person neither with girls neither with politics at last not in the way you are trying to portrait him. he being aware of being in a "date with 2 girls" is more than enough to show who he actually know about that things, his relationship with akatsuki also show this, he is "too much perfect" for a awkward person. |
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2014-03-02, 10:54 | Link #83 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Dancing, is not flirting, people dance at dance parties, sometimes because it they like the person dancing, sometimes because they like dancing, and sometimes because the other person likes dancing (and sometimes because dancing is required of them, ie. Shiroe and Henrietta). I did not see that as Shiroe flirting, i saw it as him thinking Akatsuki might like to dance (and probably not actually opposed to dancing himself), and her being too shy to do it in front of crowd (and he would be right in both accounts). And Shiroe is a sorcerer, a support class, he needs someone to take brunt of fighting (ie. Akatsuki), he is also a political mastermind, and he needs information (spies, ie. Akatsuki), he also needs friends to give him emmotional stability when he does not know if what he is doing is right, or someone to watch his back when he needs people kept at length (ie. bridge scene). Those were not words of a man flirting, but someone being thankful of a friends presence and support. And i'm not sure i have ever said Shiroe as socially awkward (though he is, in some ways), and i don't really follow why you keep bringing that up. Ability to notice people are in love with you has nothing to do with social awkwardness, even less so if the people in question themselves are not aware of it (Minori), or are trying to conceal it (Akatsuki), just because he is able to recognize himself being in a horrifyingly cliche anime romance trope (accidental date with 2 women) does not make him somekind of social butterfly or Casanova (if anything, that he managed to end into it without noticing before hand makes him pretty oblivious). |
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2014-03-02, 11:04 | Link #84 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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how many times shiroe keep comment how cute or pretty or special akatsuki is for him???? oblivion peoples dont know who their are in a double date, if him was really a dense or oblivion character, his behavious in the date was: why that peoples are looking at me??? what is happen??? not: shit, why i did this??? that killing eyes??? how i can leave this?? how i can survive this why i made this date?? shiroe behavious not match with "dense" peoples, he is smart enough to know what he did and what is happen around him, this not a trait of "dense peoples". |
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2014-03-02, 11:19 | Link #85 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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And Shiroe is not dense, just not a socially savvy person, he does not notice people being in love with him because he is not thinking about such things (also, either the people are themselves not aware of it (Minori), actively hiding it (Akatsuki) or not doing anything about it (Henrietta)). And in what world does being polite and well mannered mean flirting? Because that's as far as i have seen Shiroe being, no flirting (at least intentional). Also, telling someone they look good (especially when asked), is not flirting, and Akatsuki is special, she's one of the best Assassins in Yamato (personal skill standpoint, her gear is, at best, entry level for starter raids), with high level tracker (or was it ranger?) subclass, making her a near perfect spy (which is pretty valuable for someone like Shiroe). |
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2014-03-02, 11:25 | Link #86 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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Last edited by ellessarr; 2014-03-02 at 11:40. |
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2014-03-02, 11:36 | Link #87 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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2014-03-02, 11:42 | Link #88 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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then basically you are deny all the romance hints who the writer keep trhowing and dont have any romance toward shiroe and all he does is just "being a neet/nerd with social gentleman skills and shiroe never liked anyone or dont know nothing about love, this is what i get for your "explannation.
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2014-03-02, 12:02 | Link #89 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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When have i called Shiroe neet or nerd? As for social gentleman skills, not sure what you mean by that, he is a gentleman in that he is not rude, and tries to not embarrass people (the biggest possibly social insight he had was when he noticed Akatsuki wanted to dance, and did not point it out (and possibly embarrass her) but simply asked her for a dance). And as far as we can tell, Shiroe has not shown any special liking towards anyone (Kanami being possible exception, depending how you read his flashbacks) beyond simple friendship. Which does not mean he knows nothing about love (he is clearly aware it exists), only that he, probably, is not in love with anyone (except, possibly, maybe, kinda, Kanami) at the moment. There is romance in the novels, and in the anime, but there is no actual signs that Shiroe is encouraging, or even aware, of it at this stage. |
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2014-03-02, 12:05 | Link #90 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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2014-03-02, 12:36 | Link #91 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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There is tons of shiptease between Shiroe and Akatsuki, some between Shiroe and Henrietta, and little between Shiroe and Minori (plenty of crushing from Minori though, so no telling where it goes from there). But there is no actual signs that Shiroe is somehow intentional encouraging any of it, or consciously flirting with any of the girls (and even unconscious is debatable). You make a claim that Shiroe knows how to deal with girls, yet every interaction (that is in anyway confrontational) we see of him shows exactly opposite. You also call it a bad plot that Shiroe somehow acts as a gentlemanly lover (and fail to demonstrate when and how he does it) at one time while still remaining oblivious. I say you are wrong. Minori sees Shiroe as a saviour and mentor, authority figure she can look up to, and is in love with that figure, how far those feelings go remain to be seen (she is, however, fairly naive in her picture of Shiroe, and does not see his more ruthless side), but those feelings are not because Shiroe act as some sort of gentleman lover. Akatsuki sees Shiroe also as a saviour (thanks to the appearance reset potion), and she is thankful that Shiroe treats her as an adult she is instead of a child that she looks like, she also respects Shiroe for his talents as a leader, and for all these things she loves him, not out of some gentlemanly behaviour from Shiroes side. Henrietta sees a young man, who stood firm when reality itself was shaken, who did with ease what others might have deemed impossible, a Machiavellian hero who reshaped a city of fiftenn thousand people through power of his will. This is the man Henrietta loves, a well intentioned demon, blackhearted villain who saves the world and cares not what the world thinks. Not some gentleman who just happens to know how to deal with women. So if you did not already figure it form my post, no, i am not going to agree to disagree. I will continue to defend my point until you either back up your arguments (to a point where i find some merit in them), or back off. |
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2014-03-02, 13:57 | Link #92 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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i'm not saying who he is a master in romance, but he have enough "knowledege" to know who some of his actions can be interpreted as "flirting" or romantic interest, now how serious he want look at them is another history, but his actions are not just about the only way to look is friendship or respect, this is my point, shiroe can be aware of "his intentions" have double standards and maybe he "uninentioned is wanting a girlfriend". like i told i'm not much good in a mod to look back and track every episode where we have all the hints, but if you really want to insist i can do it later, but for what i read of comment here i'm not the only here see the things. |
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2014-03-02, 14:23 | Link #93 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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When has he shown awareness of the possibility that he might be flirting? What evidence is there that he is aware of the girls having any romantic interest in him? Quote:
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Again, when, where, what, show some evidence, proof, indication, anything, that what you are saying is in any way accurate. Quote:
Romance is there, i don't think anyone has at any point denied that, started as a triangle, and started growing from there. But it exists outside Shiroes awareness, or intent. Shiroe is a clueless hero when it comes to romance, but unlike many other Animes or Light Novels, he has fairly decent reasons for being clueless. There has been no indication of anything else. |
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2014-03-02, 14:41 | Link #94 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 46
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2014-03-02, 16:23 | Link #95 | ||
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I apologize for leading us down the road with my off-hand comment that Shiroe is "clueless." Surprisingly, in retrospect, ellessaar agreed with me then Quote:
I see this episode as a rather heavy-handed commentary on who Japanese people see as MMORG players -- people like Satou-kun: Hikikomori, NEETs, you-name-it. They're living in tiny apartments or their parents' homes, communing in a 2-D world online, and peeing in bottles. Akatsuki and Shiroe are prototypes for these characters. It's not surprising that they have limited social skills. I think the author wants us to admire their other talents and see that gamers are not losers even when they are socially inept. Minori and Tohya represent a different type of player, kids out for a good time with friends or, in this case, a sibling. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either of them had a relatively rich middle-school life. Touya would probably tend to athletics while Minori might be in the literary club. I could imagine the real-life Minori easily crushing on a male teacher the way she crushes on Shiroe. The people represented by Krusty and Henrietta are probably also pretty different in real-life from any of the ones I've mentioned so far. They seem more socially experienced. Henrietta is an accountant in real-life, perhaps in her mid-20s. I don't see much on the Net about Krusty's real-life player, though if his avatar is to be believed (and why should it?), he seems like a BMOC type and probably knows his way around the ladies. He certainly seemed to think he could work his wiles on Lenessia. By the way, Krusty is allegedly named after the character in the Simpsons! I can't say I see the resemblance.
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2014-03-02 at 16:50. |
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2014-03-02, 16:35 | Link #96 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Bah just TL;DR.
My own personal view? Not everyone is a love guru or interpersonal relationship master. For some Shiroe's actions might seem cliche in an anime setting. But for me I can relate, be it at college, work or in a MMORPG I can lead any team to do work and reach a goal in a snap, easy as cake. But when it comes to forming interpersonal relations or even romance it's like a minefield, sometimes I feel frozen like a deer in front of a headlight. Just like how we or other characters can clearly see Serara's affection for Nyanta or Akatsuki for Shiroe. In RL the same happens. I was once visiting a former workplace I left because I had a fallout with the co-owner. And BTW, people have fallouts for the most stupid of reasons too, that's why feelings are a minefield and what may happen is not set in stone or predictable. Back to the story, I still maintained good friendship with other workers so sometimes we hung out. One time we go out for lunch and a new girl working there joins the group. You can start guessing what happened. She starts chatting with me and all. And yes, I didn't realize until a long time after she was flirting and gunning for me. I even ask the other guys if it was so obvious and I was so oblivious and they answered with a resounding, yes. Too bad by that time she was no longer working there and they didn't have her contact :/ If people are so stupid when it comes to one person's feelings. Now throw in two into the mix. On the other hand Shiroe could start doing all the wrong things like Ito Makoto, but that's not in his personality. Last edited by Kamui04; 2014-03-02 at 16:47. Reason: typos and grammar |
2014-03-02, 16:41 | Link #97 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Could have fooled me. It is impossible to prove a non existence of a thing, i could point to any amount of situations of Shiroe not flirting, but none of those would actually prove anything. you make a claim that Shiroe is something, therefore it is up to you to actually back up that claim. Oh fuck, now i know why i've been constantly getting a deja vu through this conversation, it's a bloody atheist/theist debate all over again with anime characters. Quote:
Of Krusty, we know little, Henrietta is canonically an accountant and seems to work for Maryelle's dad, if we were to look for a NEET, i think Maryelle would be our best bet, and even then she is hardly a shut in. Shiroe might fit the stereotype of a college/university student who spends all his non study time playing online games though, still not a NEET though. |
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2014-03-02, 17:08 | Link #98 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I agree, NEET is the wrong word for them, but they still seem like relative shut-ins, don't you think? As you say Shiroe's world probably cycles between school and gaming. I don't see him going to bars and hoisting a few with his friends. Akatsuki apparently never goes clothes shopping with other girls/women either. My daughter (age 22) isn't big into shopping, but she certainly has gone shopping with friends on occasion.
And I am talking to some degree about popular perceptions of gamers in general, not just these two in particular.
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2014-03-02, 17:10 | Link #99 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Not NEETs, but those socially inept or awkward, who although go to school or have a work, they spend the rest of their time in hobbies like anime, videogames, MMOs, and such, rarely go out and mostly socialize with people with the same interest. Which is basically a big part of the Geeky population -_- Oh, damn that's me too. See why I can relate to Shiroe?
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2014-03-02, 17:23 | Link #100 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Shiroe is a raider (though not a guilded one, some weird type of a mercenary specialist other guilds call in when their guy is out of comission or something), presumably lot of his friends are also gamers, and raid, so his social life probably largely revolves around game, making him socially awkward outside the game setting. Where as Akatsuki uses (used) gaming as an escape from her real life situation, so she probably would not have played with people she knew outside game, making her even more isolated apart from her general shines and social awkwardness. |
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