Evangelion Rebuild 3.0: You can (not) Redo [Evangelion Shin Gekijouban: Q]

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Err, how is this doing so?

sup.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

(if one chooses to ignore ANIMA)

It only makes it worse when you mention what Rebuild should have been.

[Archon_Wing]

I guess my main gripe is that the playing field has changed. Eva did do a lot of things nobody did before and thus it gets remembered. So when i came into the Rebuild movies, I wasn't really expecting anything groundbreaking again. Honestly, I could have just settled with a more upbeat ending/chain of events where they have another chance and complete the cycle or whatever.

So 1.0 comes along, and there's some interesting changes but I couldn't say I wasn't just a little disappointed, but hey, good remake is good remake so I was happy with that.

But when 2.0 is taken in context, and this thing is either 2/3 or 1/2 done, and I just ended with meh. No, 2.0 isn't a bad movie. It looks and sounds good. But honestly, I don't really see anything about it that makes me feel like it's anything exceptional over the rest. Eva brought into the 21st century just feels like yet another late 2000s anime.

As a piece of storytelling I can't really say it's anything special. But ok, maybe it's not needed to reinvent the wheel. Can it be solidly done? But with this rushjob, this is impossible. The only chance is that the 3rd and 4th movies would be shown together as feature length-- but this is impossible with the way they spend their time. 6 episodes for part 1, 14 for part 2. What?

It just doesn't even hold a candle to stuff like Time of Eve or Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya. Honestly, even the Rebuild of Nanoha feels more like a interesting remake than this. :/

It's a really big hole to deep dig out of. Evangelion's characters were always kinda annoying, but hey, at least you could understand why. I really cannot understand anyone's motivations here. Shinji's sudden desire to save Rei might have actually made sense in the tv series, but here, it's kinda like why? You can't just put shit in because you already went into another path.

Basically, it goes back to the original problem-- why is this called Evangelion again? If you're gonna rely so much on the name, then you need to either keep true to what it was, or go on your own path.

But Rebuild really does neither. It relies too much on its parent series, yet it dilutes everything and doesn't match up with today's standards of storytelling. It almost feels like they're trying to play it safe, by just playing up modern cliches. Too scared to go back, yet too scared to go forward too.

It might have just been better off without using the name as its own story with vague references to Eva. Honestly, that would have come across as more enjoyable. Right now, it feels more in name only than anything else.

Of course, I don't hope that 3.0's gonna be bad. But I am already skeptical as hell as they really haven't given me any reason to be excited.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

sup.

I fail to see how a battered Gundam EXIA has anything even superficially similar to the state of EVA-02 in the preview. Patched up doesn't mean shot to hell and back and barely functioning, which was the state of EXIA during the first episode of Gundam 00 S2.

And alluding that Gundam 00 was a better mecha show isn't helping with the argument. :P Had you used Unicorn, them we might be getting somewhere.

As for ANIMA... Kind of a mixed bag. It doesn't even use the TV show (as we know it) as a jumping point. Sure everyone is 3 years older, but it's not as much a sequel as yet another alternate 'future', which some people have issues already as it is.

I won't argue that the battle on Luna was awesome though.

Originally Posted by Archon Wing

Basically, it goes back to the original problem-- why is this called Evangelion again? If you're gonna rely so much on the name, then you need to either keep true to what it was, or go on your own path.

I'm not sure how copyright laws work in Japan, but one of the recurring issues in the other franchise I follow (that is, Games Workshop's Warhamer 40000) was the fact that, in order to KEEP the use of the term Space Marine, they'd (Games Workshop) have to constantly churn out products using it, or risk losing the copyright (and by extension all revenue that might be gained through use of the term). Hence the abundance of alternative codecii for the Variant Space Marine Chapters (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars) instead of one single Space Marine Codex for them all.

Is it the same in this case? Possibly unlikely, given the cash cow status of anything and everything connected to the name 'Evangelion'. But its something to think about.

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

No, 2.0 isn't a bad movie.

Yes, it most certainly is. You're just confusing the flashy popcorn movie aspect of it with the actual writing.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

I fail to see how a battered Gundam EXIA has anything even superficially similar to the state of EVA-02 in the preview.

How about a nearly identical facial injury repaired with clearly improvised parts?

Protip: Exia Repair's Terminator camera isn't a part of its original head structure, either. Setsuna jacked it off of a Tieren or something and glued it on.

The only thing they have in common is that they're the exact same goddamn thing.

It's pretty blatant to me. Studio Khara wanted to make EVA-02 look "cool" so, like the hopeless hacks that they are, they simply parroted the first "cool" thing from the modern mecha genre (which Evangelion is supposed to be the exact opposite of, btw) they could think of.

Since they brutally copied and pasted Nadleeh last time (i.e. mysterious, glasses-wearing metahuman character + Pilot's eyes changing colors when they shout some codeword + Outer armor ejection gimmick), it's only logical that they should tastelessly plagiarize something from 00's second season this time.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

And alluding that Gundam 00 was a better mecha show isn't helping with the argument.

That's the entire point I was getting at. You don't need to compare Rebuild 2.0 to any sort of masterpiece to notice its flaws; it's far below an already low bar. For all its sheenigans, Gundam 00 at least conveyed a coherent narrative about a small mercenary force seeking peace while a criminal mastermind with a messiah complex gradually rose to power. Rebuild 2.0 is all about "Let's build off a direct adaptation by introducing ridiculous characters out of nowhere, showing off mecha units that only exist for three minutes because it would have complicated our ability to rehash existing battle scenes, and pulling a nonsensical plot device out of our ass to force the story into specific direction."

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

As for ANIMA... Kind of a mixed bag.

Anima is superior simply on the basis of it being a thoroughly unique attempt to tell a new Evangelion story. It's the radical re-imagining that Rebuild was apparently supposed to be. It puts recognizable characters in completely new situations. The new Eva designs they come up with aren't just product placement and are actually used to a significant extent.

The Rebuild series should have started and always remained as either:

1. A true-to-the-original re-animation with only minor plot/characterization changes. Pretty much what Zeta Gundam: A New Translation was in terms of storytelling, but with purely new footage.

2. A radically new AU story from the ground up that only vaguely inherits the original story's setting and character personalities (if at all) to springboard into its own ideas.

Either of those pitches could have been good on their own merits. Rebuild 2.0 trying (and predictably failing) to be both is not good.

It's the "We're going to create a 'new' story by faithfully retelling the TV show's plot storyboard-for-storyboard before abruptly pissing all over it and pasting our fanfiction fantasy characters in the middle of development" tone Rebuild 2.0 takes that's just unbearable. It's honestly as if Khara was completely cluesless on how to go about creating their own Eva universe, so they had to rely on reusing 80% of the original one to cover their asses.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Yes, it most certainly is. You're just confusing the flashy popcorn movie aspect of it with the actual writing.

Lies. Obviously good writing is optional. Flashy popcorn presentation is sufficient for entertainment reasons.

[Solafighter]

Oh my goooood!

Cant wait.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Space pirate asuka hell yeah

Yeah she looks awful like hell. I think we should call her captain Shikinami to not mix with real Asuka though.

[blakstealth]

Awful as in awful-looking, or awful as in beat up like trash? lol

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

Since they brutally copied and pasted Nadleeh last time (i.e. mysterious, glasses-wearing metahuman character

Since we already had a silent, cute character and a tsundere, it was only logical that GAINAX introduce a megane girl. Logical progression, not plagiarism.

And since when was Mari a metahuman character? Aside from parental-filial links to the souls contained within the Eva or a certain genetic predisposition (Touji), the other characters weren't genetically engineered and I certainly don't remember Mari being a designer's child.

+ Pilot's eyes changing colors when they shout some codeword

Her eyes changed color when the limiters were removed and she thus ventured dangerously close to mental contamination territory (which again plays a part when Shinji causes Unit 01 to awaken against Zeruel and his own eyes glow red, like Rei's or Tabris'; heck, the eye color-changing thing was even picked up by the fanfic community a decade ago in the "what-if-Shinji-became-kind-of-angelic" category). There is no quantum link at work here, just the pilots suffering from excessive synchronization and mental contamination.

+ Outer armor ejection gimmick

Rii~ght. In the original TV series, Unit 01 discarded its armor (which was then revealed to be a device designed to restrain the Eva's powers, more than conceal the anatomy/physiology underneath) after devouring Zeruel and absorbing the S² engine, thus revealing its true nature (that of a biological beast). The beast mode merely expands on that. There is no suspicious link to Nadleeh here, just a case of anime fan's pareidolia.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

sup..

Not sure what the issue is.

It was stated in the Evangelion series that NERV was always having issues with budgets and as noted by the supreme council to repair even one evangelion was enough to bankrupt entire nations.

Unit 02 itself was badly damaged with half of its face ripped off, if the situation is escalating then I don't see why NERV is not allowed to make quick repairs to get 02 back in the fight. And Unit 02 isn't the only one that's badly damaged either. Priority wise 01 gets all the love.

As a piece of storytelling I can't really say it's anything special. But ok, maybe it's not needed to reinvent the wheel. Can it be solidly done? But with this rushjob, this is impossible. The only chance is that the 3rd and 4th movies would be shown together as feature length-- but this is impossible with the way they spend their time. 6 episodes for part 1, 14 for part 2. What?

Rushjob my ass, it takes so long for them to come out with these movies so I see where your going with that too.

This is why I hate it when people say, "take your time and it'll get better." They should do something on mythbusters to bust that myth.

It just doesn't even hold a candle to stuff like Time of Eve or Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya. Honestly, even the Rebuild of Nanoha feels more like a interesting remake than this. :/

For some reason I didn't like the Haruhi movie that much and wasn't that part of the
story to begin with?

For this case it is retelling Evangelion in a different universe and compared to most crap these days I find it refreshing as I don't need to see an exact retelling of evangelion (I was worried when I first watched 1.0 but was happy with 2.0)

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Not sure what the issue is.

It was stated in the Evangelion series that NERV was always having issues with budgets and as noted by the supreme council to repair even one evangelion was enough to bankrupt entire nations.

Unit 02 itself was badly damaged with half of its face ripped off, if the situation is escalating then I don't see why NERV is not allowed to make quick repairs to get 02 back in the fight. And Unit 02 isn't the only one that's badly damaged either. Priority wise 01 gets all the love.

Another thing to consider is that in the original TV series AND the manga it was directly stated that both Unit 00 and Unit 02 had gone beyond the Hayflick limit, which suggests that the physical trauma forced upon either Eva was such that they had extreme trouble regenerating by themselves (especially that head wound for Unit 02 - in the original series the head was cleanly chopped off, not half ripped apart). Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken, SEELE even had to ship body parts from the Mass Production Evas (this is revealed in the scene where Makoto is sharing intel with Misato on a bridge in the Geofront forest, IIRC) to make up for Unit 00 and 02's lost limbs.

Given how more extensive the physical damage was in Rebuild 2.0 and that the Eva lineup is hardly the same anymore with the addition of Mark.06 and Unit 08 (or Mark.08, whichever), I'm not sure the spare parts scenario could've been used again, especially with NERV under lockdown and the administration aspect still up for debate.

So, yeah, the Eva Unit rushjob is kind of justified. And I believe it's far easier to envision SEELE hastily jury-rigging those cybernetic parts onto the mutilated Unit 02 than...Setsuna single-handedly turning Exia into a mechanical Frankenstein monster with cannibalized components gleaned off here and there.

[gwern]

BTW guys, I've been editing the various CRC translations into one page: http://www.gwern.net/docs/2010-crc

(I also just finished dealing with a long 2003 roundtable between Anno and Izubuchi: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=492098#492098 )

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Since we already had a silent, cute character and a tsundere, it was only logical that GAINAX introduce a megane girl. Logical progression, not plagiarism.

And since when was Mari a metahuman character? Aside from parental-filial links to the souls contained within the Eva or a certain genetic predisposition (Touji), the other characters weren't genetically engineered and I certainly don't remember Mari being a designer's child.

Manga Asuka backstory - selected sperm, test-tube baby.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

I'm not sure how copyright laws work in Japan, but one of the recurring issues in the other franchise I follow (that is, Games Workshop's Warhamer 40000) was the fact that, in order to KEEP the use of the term Space Marine, they'd (Games Workshop) have to constantly churn out products using it, or risk losing the copyright (and by extension all revenue that might be gained through use of the term). Hence the abundance of alternative codecii for the Variant Space Marine Chapters (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars) instead of one single Space Marine Codex for them all.

This makes zero sense to me in the context of anything I have ever read about copyright or the Berne Convention that Japan obeys. It might make sense if one were discussing trademark, but even then...

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by gwern

Manga Asuka backstory - selected sperm, test-tube baby.

Yes, in the manga...but my point was that she wasn't genetically modified - Kyoko merely selected a donor that answered to her own criteria (looks, intelligence). There wasn't any genetic tampering (that we know of, at the very least) that would make Asuka into a metahuman, as Hagoshod assumed.

She's still 100% normal human, if you put aside the theory that Second Impact somehow modified every children born after the cataclysm (some form of irradiation or something). Only Rei answers to the definition of metahuman. Shinji, Asuka, Touji and Mari (unless it was stated elsewhere she received genetic or cybernetic enhancements) are just normal humans.

[Kyouka]

not sure if someone posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ictu4GHEhs0

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Awful as in awful-looking, or awful as in beat up like trash? lol

She just looks like a piece of shit with a red wig.

[blakstealth]

Some new unidentified characters?



http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...ied-characters

[blakstealth]

You Can (NOT) Redo.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

You Can (NOT) Redo.

Unless it's an anime series.

[Tempester]

Some new official art for an advertisement that is simultaneously hilarious and terrifying:

Images

Do you really want to see this?

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[DragoZERO]

Guess Shinji couldn't pull it off... again.