[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Saerianne]

What is exactly the yellow/golden text? I'll go for a little search to find info, but I haven't read anything about it.

[Klashikari]

What it is: The truth that only the gamemaster can use. It is an absolute truth that is not bound to any obligation of the burden of proof, unlike the red truth for the anti mystery: anti mystery side must remain within the boundary of Knox's commandements.

The text says: "I guarantee that this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse!!"

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

Nice I never seen Gold truths before, anyways I have a theory feel free to shoot it down

Spoiler for theory:

It's my first but whatever. I think that it relates to Battler's original sin, the young man that talked to Natsuhi, and Natsuhi. I was a bit surprised by Battler's behavior in Ep5, and the remark about him acting like he did six years ago. I'm thinking that Battler's sin was he allowed the YM to take his place as Battler in order to avoid going to Rokkenjima or something to that effect. The difference between a 19-year old and an 18-year old is not that big so it's possible for the YM to do so. Although I'm unsure about Battler's and YM's relationship.....this kinda theory has alot of holes but really I wanted to state what I was thinking about. I'm really edging towards the two-battlers theory right now.

[Tjfarmer]

Originally Posted by Dlanor .A. Nox

Nice I never seen Gold truths before, anyways I have a theory feel free to shoot it down

Spoiler for theory:

It's my first but whatever. I think that it relates to Battler's original sin, the young man that talked to Natsuhi, and Natsuhi. I was a bit surprised by Battler's behavior in Ep5, and the remark about him acting like he did six years ago. I'm thinking that Battler's sin was he allowed the YM to take his place as Battler in order to avoid going to Rokkenjima or something to that effect. The difference between a 19-year old and an 18-year old is not that big so it's possible for the YM to do so. Although I'm unsure about Battler's and YM's relationship.....this kinda theory has alot of holes but really I wanted to state what I was thinking about. I'm really edging towards the two-battlers theory right now.

Spoiler for response:

Doesn't the family constantly say "Oh, Battler, its been 6 years!" and all that? I think that would imply no one even going under the name Battler has been to the island.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

Spoiler for response:

Doesn't the family constantly say "Oh, Battler, its been 6 years!" and all that? I think that would imply no one even going under the name Battler has been to the island.

Spoiler for Okay...:

Well I'm also assuming the YM disguised himself as Ushiromiya Battler, in previous episodes we don't see Battler act like the way he does now, they say that Battler still acted like in the same way he did six years ago, this never happened before. And the fact that someone mentioned Battler sometimes spoke in English is what is also made me go into this line of reasoning. The piece-Battler in EP 5 is most likely the YM fufilling his threat to Natsuhi. I'm also guessing that it was the YM that was at the conference six years ago.

[Tjfarmer]

Spoiler for response:

Oooh, sorry, I didn't understand your theory, now I get what you're saying.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

It's alright like I said, pick away at it, after all it's my first theory, so I'm pretty open to criticism.

[Rias]

I need some confirmation before I crack at it first:

Spoiler:

I'm assuming that you are saying that ep5 Battler = young man = ep4 or ep1~3 battler (with sin, or have comitted sin in the past 3 games)? Yet you are saying that ep5 battler is different from ep1~4 battler. (they are both valid points)

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

Spoiler for clarification:

I'm thinking the YM is ep5 piece Battler, different from the previous Battlers in ep 1-3, due to the sheer difference of this world from previous ones I'm assuming more changed than just the appearance of Erika. It's not hard to imagine since Rika said in Higu that in the really rare case, Keiichi never came to Hinamizawa. Anyways who knows what the exact original sin is maybe YM did something that the real Battler could have prevented if he had appeared at the conference six years ago. Sorry haven't really thought it through enough I guess lol.

[Rias]

Based on what you have said:

Spoiler:

The thing is that to go with your theory, YM needs to be there in ep1-3 to fufill the "because 'Real' Battler switched with YM (battler's sin), lots of people die" claim, while "Real" Batter has to be in Rokkenjima in ep4 to recieve that comment.

If there's no previous switch, prior to ep5, the ep4's claim wouldn't be valid.

I don't think the sin is as simple as "Battler letting YM to take his place"

[Westlo]

How does the Yakusoku/Promise vocal song get used in episode 5?

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

Spoiler for ah:

hmm like I said it's full of holes but I'm giving it a shot after I had an epihany heh I guess it wasn't much of one. Anyways I'm saying something along the line of if Battler wasn't there then the original sin could've been prevented, anyways it gives me something to think about it, with your rebuttal now its time for some refining and bed. -_-;;;

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Westlo

How does the Yakusoku/Promise vocal song get used in episode 5?

I believe it plays during

Spoiler for ending:

Beatrice's death sequence.

Which makes it Umineko's version of "Nagisa" if you ask me... -_-

[UsagiTenpura]

I've had this theory since arc 3 for a reason I don't even remember now, but arc 4 and now 5 makes me think it's very likely...

Spoiler for Weird Phone Calls:

Someone has the skill to mimic others' voices perfectly. It's a real skill, nothing to do with magic, and could make understanding arc 4 and 5 a lot easier. As thus any phone calls that doesn't seem to make any sense can be easily faked. It would also tie in well with the red truth about no one mistaking Kinzo by sight alone.

[luckyssol]

People have mentioned Knox's 10 commandments which apparently were a guide by Ronald A. Knox for writing detective novels in the early 20th century. After reading them there are a few that have unclear meanings. If anyone could clarify their meanings I would appreciate it.

Spoiler for From http://www.diogenes-club.com/knoxrules.htm:

I. The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow;
Exactly how early is "early"? Does this mean only people from the first game or the first four games?

II. All supernatural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course;
This is clear. Battler doesn't want to suspect any of his family members as well.

III. No more than one secret room or passage is allowable. I would add that a secret passage should not be brought in at all unless the action takes place in the kind of house where such devices might be expected;
So having found the secret passage that leads out of Kuwadorian in ep4 rules out the possibility of finding any more secret passages?

IV. No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need a long scientific explanation at the end;
Only what relates to what is possible as of 1986 is possible. No robot Genji

V. No Chinaman must figure into the story*;
*In Msgr. Knox's time, one of the most overused plot mechanisms was the introduction of "a Chinaman" or other foreign, exotic or otherwise unusual character from "another land" as the malefactor. This comment was not intended as a "racist" one, but as a reaction to this plotting mechanism.
Is Erika really just a random shipwreck victim who is not related to the family? How much of a factor is she in episode 5?

VI. No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right;
This is clear. If, for example, Battler were to question Maria thoroughly at the very begining then it would lead to a revelation that somebody is going to try commit murders in accordance to the epitaph. There is no reason Battler would do this.

VII. The detective must not, himself, commit the crime;
Meta Battler(the detective) != piece Battler so this will be interesting.

VIII. The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader;
Does this one mean that everything Battler learns regarding solving the mysteries we learn as well? So there is nothing that Battler is currently aware of that would help him solve the mysteries that we do not already know.

IX. The stupid friend of the detective, the Watson, must not conceal any thoughts which pass through his mind; his intelligence must be slightly, but only very slightly, below that of the average reader;
I don't believe this applies to Umineko no naku koro ni

X. Twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them
I assume one could still disguise themselves as another family member and not violate this rule.

[rtic]

With regards to the first Knox rule, what does it mean by thoughts we've been allowed to follow? Does that apply for all first person narrators only, or could we extend that to characters that the omniscient narrator has followed? I feel like there's more of a subtle line in the latter case between those whose thoughts we've seen and those we haven't.

[Kitsu]

I think only the ones we saw directly from their POV. But maybe I'm wrong.

But this rules out "a lot" of people. Kanon, Jessica, Battler, Shannon, Natsuhi, Eva !? and some more I think

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

I think only the ones we saw directly from their POV. But maybe I'm wrong.

But this rules out "a lot" of people. Kanon, Jessica, Battler, Shannon, Natsuhi, Eva !? and some more I think

Also, if we are allowed to follow their thoughts in one particular game does that mean they cannot be culprits in other games?

[Tyabann]

I've always felt that Knox's rules were total bullshit, particularly I. and IX.

But that's just because I consider The Murder of Roger Ackroyd to be one of the most awesome mysteries ever.

Originally Posted by Kitsu

But this rules out "a lot" of people. Kanon, Jessica, Battler, Shannon, Natsuhi, Eva !? and some more I think

It also rules out Beatrice, amusingly.

[Kitsu]

Also, if we are allowed to follow their thoughts in one particular game does that mean they cannot be culprits in other games?

To answer that question we must decide if there are different culprits every game or always the same