Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Tiresias]

What was most jarring about the "sudden shift to funny artstyle and then back" scene was it felt hastily and suddenly tacked in, as if in the last minute the artist goes "oh shit, must make them sympathetic and all that stuff"...when giving Veyron a Pet the Dog moment with the Strosek would serve that purpose better (and I think that was what most people are implying on the future dynamics between her and him anyway)

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I find funny the logic of "see? the Hucks killed some bad guys, that must mean they're good guys" xDU

Evil versus Evil anyone xD?

More like Draco in Leather Pants IMO

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I knew the cuckold definition but don't see how that applies to this chapter.

Well it's almost impossible to confirm without translations, but methinks the guy commented it as NTR because the Strosek did something at the last minute due to...I dunno, maybe impressed by his sexy leather jacket or something (people say chicks dig grumpy bad boys afterall), and bailed out, leaving the reacted fellow to his defeat. Basically, his Strosek cheated him for Veyron. Probably. NTR is weird like that

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I think the difference to them is ordered and purposeful slaughter vs. random and senseless slaughter. Like a military strike against a village vs. a terrorist bomb in the middle of a city.

Not really a solid analogy. More like a military wiping out a village to test new weapons versus a military wiping out a village for the heck of it.

Besides, even if I am still of the opinion the current Hucks are evil, there's a line between evil and stupidity. To me, killing an entire village to slake your bloodthirst is evil. Killing entire villages with no sign of stopping "just because" is stupid, and I like to think the Hucks aren't stupid. Being able to travel through dimensions doesn't help if you leave a trail of bodies for people to follow. Curren even said as much when she told Veyron that the reason she let RF6 live was so that it would be only that small force chasing them, rather than the TSAB as a whole. They like to keep a low profiles and idiots like these guys aren't helping.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Uh, did you miss the part where him and his buddy attacked a village?

No I didn't. Do you seriously think Veyron and Arnage stopped him because they were trying to protect the people that lived there?

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

What was most jarring about the "sudden shift to funny artstyle and then back" scene was it felt hastily and suddenly tacked in

Well keep in mind that this blogger doesn't post the whole chapter, but several snippets. They could be more frames between him begging and him lying dead.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Well it's almost impossible to confirm without translations, but methinks the guy commented it as NTR because the Strosek did something at the last minute due to...I dunno, maybe impressed by his sexy leather jacket or something (people say chicks dig grumpy bad boys afterall), and bailed out, leaving the reacted fellow to his defeat. Basically, his Strosek cheated him for Veyron. Probably. NTR is weird like that

That's not it. That dude was still reacted when Veyron killed him. I guess the user dying doesn't harm the Strosek at all.

If you look at the blogger's images, they have NTR written all over them. They even crossed out the chapter title and replaced it with NTR.

Originally Posted by Endscape

No I didn't. Do you seriously think Veyron and Arnage stopped him because they were trying to protect the people that lived there?

And why not? Arnage and Veyron sure didn't looked pleased by what was going on.

If the TLs reveal that they're mad because they wanted to attack the village first, then that's that. You still shouldn't always assume the worst of people just because you don't like them.

Originally Posted by Keroko

To me, killing an entire village to slake your bloodthirst is evil.

But it's not that simple. Their bloodthrist is a medical condition.

[Kuze]

Just to clarify, STC/LH have 44 out of 48 pictures on that blog. Higa Yukari has some considerable pacing issues, which, okay, so many people have trouble writing action scenes. The same goes for ViViD.

But after me being spoiled by early Togashi, and Ohkubo, and Moriyama, and Yabuki when he was with Black Cat, well, yeah.

I honestly think that the Hucks would've been much better as antagonists if they were basically AVALANCHE from FF7.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

But it's not that simple. Their bloodthrist is a medical condition.

Yeah, I kinda figured that part out after the last year or so, so that was kinda into my calculations when I said that.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

And why not? Arnage and Veyron sure didn't looked pleased by what was going on.

Because they themselves also decimate entire towns. Straight from at least two of the horses mouth.

So it's either moral hypocricy, or they were just frustrated that these idiots were drawing too much attention to the Eclipse. I'm going for the second here.

[Justin_Brett]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Spoiler:

Not sure what NTR means.

Yeah, you can't really be humorous or light-hearted in the same chapter as that image, I'm sorry. Maybe in a different series, but not here.

[vic-vic]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

For the record this is what happened to the other guy:

Spoiler:

Not sure what NTR means.

Now I love Hucks even more: they may be not nice, but they`re so BADASS.

[Akiyoshi]

Claw Grab started to catch my attention, at first i thinked it was just some extra toy Veyron cerries with him to compensate his lack of a reactor and original Divider. But the damn thing has proven to be very resilent and powerfull on it's own(a great accomplishment considering that isn't even a Divider).

I wonder how or where Veyron put his ands on that weapon.

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Now I love Hucks even more: they may be not nice, but they`re so BADASS.

Veyron and Curren at least xDU

[vic-vic]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Veyron and Curren at least xDU

Hey, Deville also a very cool guy, he have thick armor and giant axe, and if Fate not interference - he could chop off nanoha`s head.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Hey, Deville also a very cool guy, he have thick armor and giant axe, and if Fate not interference - he could chop off nanoha`s head.

"Deville is a pretty cool guy, he fights Nanoha and isn't afraid of anything"

xD

Jokes aside, i like Deville and he have a cool set of powers(Instant Teleport + Mighty Glacier = Oh Crap!), but he's too dependant on his Eclipse abilities. To me, Curren and Veyron has started to earn their badass points because they actually proven to be strong and skilled fighters in their own right. Curren by curbsomping 3 heavyweights without a Divider and Veyron for having the second largest ass-kicking count while being the less equiped Huckebein, combining the strengths of his alternative weapons and his skill to prevail in battle.

...Neither Cypha, Deville or Arnage have showed that at the moment(Cypha got her ass handed to her by an inferior opponent until she exploits her trump cards to the max, Deville is almost completely reliant on his Eclipse powers to be a threat and so far Arnage is just a happy trigger with her Divider and is the Huckebein that has been at disagdvantage more frequently than the others).

[LostSome]

Originally Posted by vic-vic

Now I love Hucks even more: they may be not nice, but they`re so BADASS.

Seconded !
Now we know when Veyron told Subaru she was about to lose a hand, he was serious.
Nice save, Erio.

[Zero Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

...Neither Cypha, Deville or Arnage have showed that at the moment(Cypha got her ass handed to her by an inferior opponent until she exploits her trump cards to the max, Deville is almost completely reliant on his Eclipse powers to be a threat and so far Arnage is just a happy trigger with her Divider and is the Huckebein that has been at disagdvantage more frequently than the others).

At least so far Cypha, Deville, and Aru are likely the weakest Huck categories. Aki, talking about Deville completely relying on Eclipse, is this just me or the Eclipse is analogous with drugs/narcotics? The reason, both are aim to satisfy themselves, and after they enjoy it, they will die. Hmm...

Originally Posted by Kuze

I honestly think that the Hucks would've been much better as antagonists if they were basically AVALANCHE from FF7.

Or maybe Strega from Persona 3. They both use their powers for their own benefit.

[dahak]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Uh, typically when you have rules like that it means they won't kill anytime none of those rules apply.

Opposite actually. People who have rules limiting them to only kill under certain circumstances tend to include that limit in the rules. As opposed to this which is we will always kill under these circumstances.

Like the Mongol rule for resisting cities didn't stop them from killing people otherwise.

"When someone interferes with our goal" isn't a restriction. Even assuming he means a singular goal rather than what ever goal each of them has at the moment, that could be used to justify a ridiculous range of killings.

Standing in a queue at the coffee shop for example. Interferes with their goal by forcing Curen to wait to get her morning coffee and thus delays her from thinking up the next piece of the plan.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

My point was that Veyron's use of the word 'unnecessary' doesn't fit with the "he was bored" explaination.

Cause it does. All it requires is for the Eclipse bloodlust to be something that is triggered by being around non infected people, or by becoming bored.

Or for him to have killed them or risked killing them just because he was bored of waiting.

He's trying to shift the blame onto Thoma turning up later than him rather than accept it himself. After all if Thoma had arrived the same time as him, then Veyron could have abducted him without killing the nuns. The flaw in his argument is the assumption that Veyron has no moral agency.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

What did you expect him to do? Wander around the entire planet looking for him?

Stay on board the Esquad and not interfere with Thoma? Veyron didn't have to go looking for him in the first place.

Actually I'd have expected him to attempt to intercept Thoma short of the church to stop any possibility he might be able to remotely access the off planet comms, like we've seen other characters do.

At the minimum I'd have expected being somewhere you can intercept Thoma before he saw the first dead nun. Don't want him scared off and if Thoma needs the nuns to send his message letting him know they are dead, gives him every reason to run away [That church is, we know thanks to Thoma's message to Subaru in chapter 1 at most two days walk from where Thoma entered the reservation and access to off planet comms.]. Apparently Veyron has forgotten that people find dead bodies disturbing. Since he's shot the first nun in the entrance corridor that means outside. At which point his only reason for going inside is to kill them.

He could have been outside on the grass doing Tai-Chi. That might have helped him retain control of his faculties while still watching for Thoma and staying away from the nuns.

Or he could have gone looking for Thoma. There can't be that many passes through the mountain range. Cypha had no problems finding him when she went looking.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

The church was the only place with off planet communication so it was a good bet that Thoma would go there to call for help so Veyron waited for him.

Didn't have to wait inside or all that near.

Incidently the Lab also appears to have had off planet comms and so does the location Thoma entered the reservation two days before issue 1.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

No they didn't.

From the evidence of everything translated into English, there is as yet no evidence to the contrary and they had means, what passes for motive for them and opportunity. If something as yet untranslated puts someone else with means or motive on site, then I'll accept they might not have done it.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Both seasons were only 13 episodes so they had to establish things quickly. We don't know how long the manga is set to run, but clearly they have more time to work with.

4-5 years of a 20 page , once a month manga is roughly equivalent to a 13 episode series, based on the usual ratio of 40-60 pages to an episode. You seriously think they are planning for this to be longer than that without having multiple arcs and new villains?

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by dahak

Opposite actually. People who have rules limiting them to only kill under certain circumstances tend to include that limit in the rules. As opposed to this which is we will always kill under these circumstances.

Uh, no. If they just killed whenever they felt like it, then what would be the point in having those rules in the first place?

Originally Posted by dahak

Stay on board the Esquad and not interfere with Thoma? Veyron didn't have to go looking for him in the first place.

Thoma was walking around with a powerful artefact that the Huckebein have personal interest in... and you're saying they should have left him alone? That would make less sense.

Originally Posted by dahak

Cypha had no problems finding him when she went looking.

That's because they knew what area he was in because of his altercation with Veyron.

Originally Posted by dahak

Incidently the Lab also appears to have had off planet comms and so does the location Thoma entered the reservation two days before issue 1.

I'm sure the Hucks were smart enough to know Thoma wouldn't be sticking around the lab. It's outright stated that the church was the only place in the area with interdimensional communication.

Originally Posted by dahak

From the evidence of everything translated into English, there is as yet no evidence to the contrary and they had means, what passes for motive for them and opportunity. If something as yet untranslated puts someone else with means or motive on site, then I'll accept they might not have done it.

They said they didn't do it. Their proof was that if it was them, they wouldn't have left Thoma alive. If you say they're lying, then that opens the possibility that they're lying about other things, like having killed people.

[WarpObscura]

Originally Posted by Kuze

I honestly think that the Hucks would've been much better as antagonists if they were basically AVALANCHE from FF7.

That would be interesting, but would take the TSAB in a direction people would be butthurt about.

[Justin_Brett]

And one that doesn't really exist in a way that's comparable to Final Fantasy 7.

[Kuze]

And who says that the TSAB needs to be Shin-Ra? Remember, AVALANCHE indiscriminately killed a lot of people, in the first ten minutes of the game. They were the good guys, for most of the game by /comparison./ Hell, the final speech before they go to the Northern Crater is them finally throwing away all of the pretenses they had, facing up to all of the wrong and messed up stuff they did, and deciding once and for all if they have it in them to succeed at the right thing. And even then, by looking for their own selfish reason.

Done right? I could very well see the Huckebein as a very motley collection of spies, thieves, assassins, mercenaries, and terrorists. They've got most of the above down anyways, if not the character of it. Just replace "save the planet" with whatever it is they want. The restoration of Garea? What Toredia wanted? Y'know.

[Akiyoshi]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....!!

If new updates on the Wikia are to be believed, those two Eclipse Drivers that confronted Veyron and Arnage are wielders of the "replica dividers" and captured the 5th Strosek to take her to their "sponsor"(Vandin Corp.).

Well, at least is now clear that Veyron and Arnage didn't fought those guys out of the goodness of their hearts, those are just their preys as Curren is pursuing the Divider/Book replicas as also their creators.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

If new updates on the Wikia are to be believed,

Source: Some guy in Japan whom I have roped into contributing to the English wiki.