[Manga] Naruto Chapter 653 Discussion Thread

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by felix

we all know Madara is the real "nice fight, fuck reasons" villain.

until he faces the most OP ability of all time. the dreaded TnJ

seriously though, please don't let obito fall for it kishi. it's too stupid

naruto: "you're life's work is meaningless because I say it is"
obito: "hmm.. no one's ever put it that way before. you're right. time to get redeemed for a life of murder in my last five seconds on earth"

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

until he faces the most OP ability of all time. the dreaded TnJ

seriously though, please don't let obito fall for it kishi. it's too stupid

naruto: "you're life's work is meaningless because I say it is"
obito: "hmm.. no one's ever put it that way before. you're right. time to get redeemed for a life of murder in my last five seconds on earth"

what exactly are we calling redemption tho?...naruto did say that for him to "accept his punishment" so he wouldnt necessarily be getting off scott free...

i honestly dont expect him to join naruto (he if does, madara will kill him).
he says it himself. to turn back now is stupid. plus he now has the power to actually materialize a new world..
but he also says that his purpose in pushing naruto so hard was to see if he can get him to quit much like he himself quit. so since naruto hasnt given up, i suspect madara will soon take his place...


and wait. did Rin actually love this dude back?!

[SeanQ]

Naruto: Stop your nonsense Obito and take your punishment.
Obito: What about Sasuke, is he gonna get any?
Naruto: but ... he's my friend

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

what exactly are we calling redemption tho?...naruto did say that for him to "accept his punishment" so he wouldnt necessarily be getting off scott free...

darth vader death. obito will die for sure, but he'll be remembered as a hero by some convoluted thinking of everyone. basically he helped join the ninja world and then helped defeat madara (who was already dead) if that all happens, it's pretty lame

and wait. did Rin actually love this dude back?!

nah. that's typical young guy thinking. oh she put a bandaid on me. oh she smiled at me. oh she wanted me to succeed and help me. she must be in love with me... in fairness to guys (and obito) it is tough to tell what a girl is thinking when she does those things

as much as i dislike the repetitive dialogue and thematic pounding into our skulls, i actually don't have a problem with obito's story at all, up until he took the mask off that is, but that's a different story. we know that uchiha go crazy as per their dna. and the more powerful they are, the crazier they get and vice versa. he saw his crush get killed by his most idolized person. he was sustained, trained and taught by madara. it adds up in my book (well not his hair styles but w/e). i'm just sick of the whining, repetition and waste of panels and even whole chapters. and the near-inevitable redemption is too much. i hope he goes the opposite of nagato and resists tnj

[HasuMasu]

I messed up by thinking the last chapter was #625, but it was #652...

When I heard there was a new chapter I read #626 and thought it was weird to get that again...

[itachi-san314]

^that's how i felt from reading the correct chapter

[james0246]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

] i hope he goes the opposite of nagato and resists tnj

That'll just prolong the torture. Better to have this bone reset asap so we can all get on with out lives and quickly gloss over the pain.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

^that's how i felt from reading the correct chapter

ha!

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i hope he goes the opposite of nagato and resists tnj

Originally Posted by james0246

That'll just prolong the torture. Better to have this bone reset asap so we can all get on with out lives and quickly gloss over the pain.

perhaps...but if he resists tnj then he goes right ahead and activates IT. in that case, things could potentially get interesting ie. alt universe where shisui and others may or may not be dead...

then again if joins naruto he'll likely meet a swift end and the IT may be activated by madara so i reckon we stand to gain either way.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi29al

You see when every villain is redeemable it make any redemption just seem unrealistic, not every person is redeemable. Some people outlook, especially the older they get, will never change.

Not every villain is such, we already had Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu, etc.
Nagato and Obito are special guys, they are not just plain villains.
But we have still Orochimaru and Madara here, and i'm quite sure that Madara won't become a good guy. As for Orochimaru, i think he already changed, but he didn't become a "good guy", he just changed his thinking.

You know there are people who are very much emotionally driven and those who are more cold and logic driven. Those who have strong emotions can change both ways, and we saw how both Nagato and Obito were good guys as children but some tragic events changed them entirely, so if their big battle and talk with Naruto is also a very emotional event for them they can change. But those like Orochi or the 2nd hokage who are driven by reasoning won't ever change just because Naruto talks to them. Or those like Kakuzu and Danzou who have no feelings towards other people and are driven just by their lust for money or power and that's how they reason about life.

Guys like Nagato and Obito have ideals, they have dreams, so if you talk to with them about their dreams and ideals then you can possibly change their mind. Shitty villains like Kakuzu or Hidan have no dreams or ideals, there's nothing to talk about with them, you can only kill them and be done with it. In that respect i think even people like Orochimaru and Madara could be reasoned with, you can talk to Madara about his dream of having an Infinite Tsukiyomi world where everything is nice and peaceful, or to talk with Orochi about his dream of learning about everything in the ninja world. For example if you could convince Madara that his IT world would be fake and boring then he could change his mind and give up. Similarly with Orochimaru. But of course with these two i believe Naruto would absolutely no chance because he is not as smart as those two so he can't reason with them and more importantly these two were always egoistic enough to not care about what happens to other people. Nagato and Obito always cared about people, they just tought that the huge sacrifice is necessary for their dream to come true, while these other two simply didn't care about anyone. Orochimaru will never become a "good guy" but i think he can stop being an evil guy. Madara might realize that his goal wasn't good and that Hashirama was right, he might realize that the real solution to this world is what the real sage of 6 paths was trying to accomplish, so Madara might realize that he simply failed and he can then decide to willingly leave this world and go back to the world of the dead. But these changes of Orochi and Madara do not mean that they are "redeemed", they just get a closure where they aren't the big evil guys any more. Then if you want to classify Orochi you could say that he became neutral, that's far from being good.

[Alchemist007]

I'm ok with this kind of resolution with Obito.

[Vajra]

I don't mind seeing Obito redeemed as we've already seen plenty of irredeemably bad characters in the story. I know Madara will try and stop him, but in his current sage of six paths form I don't think even Edo Madara can stop him -- I think Obito will make a heroic sacrifice to rid the world of Madara (ending his corruption once and for all) and redeeming himself in the end.

[Alchemist007]

I don't know if the level of shit he's committed is redeemable, least he bring back everyone he's killed past and present (don't know if I'd be ok with that as a plot point though).

[Vajra]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

I don't know if the level of shit he's committed is redeemable, least he bring back everyone he's killed past and present (don't know if I'd be ok with that as a plot point though).

Well it wouldn't make him 'Saint Obito', however him sacrificing himself to get rid of an even bigger threat (Edo-Madara) and ending the war, would save countless lives on the battlefield and the villages would at least remember him for it even though he did influence and start the war himself (with Madara's corruption).

[Kenu]

Unfortunately there's no tension in the story any more. No villain is a true villain. Even Madara is only out there for sport (man-wrestling with Hashirama). The bijuu who were considered evil chakra incarnate are now playbuddy pets.

Kishimoto has painted himself into a corner now since there's no conceivable way to reintroduce protagonist tension into the story.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Kenu

Unfortunately there's no tension in the story any more. No villain is a true villain. Even Madara is only out there for sport (man-wrestling with Hashirama). The bijuu who were considered evil chakra incarnate are now playbuddy pets.

Kishimoto has painted himself into a corner now since there's no conceivable way to reintroduce protagonist tension into the story.

I think if we assume that Obito with the rinnegan can bring back the entire army (about 95% of them are already dead) then the cool thing to do now would be to somehow remove him from the war until the end, when he resurrects everyone and dies in the process. That would give space to Madara to do anything he wants, and by that i mean that he could kill Naruto's friends, the kages, any named character, etc. and with that bring the tension back to the story.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Kenu

Kishimoto has painted himself into a corner now since there's no conceivable way to reintroduce protagonist tension into the story.

you 100% sure about this? there is at least one person who can take this thing south...

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Kenu

Unfortunately there's no tension in the story any more. No villain is a true villain. Even Madara is only out there for sport (man-wrestling with Hashirama). The bijuu who were considered evil chakra incarnate are now playbuddy pets.

Kishimoto has painted himself into a corner now since there's no conceivable way to reintroduce protagonist tension into the story.

Orochimaru could throw us a curve ball and be that guy. But Kishi might have no more need for a "true villain" since the story is supposed to be coming to a close. I think the only thing on Kishi's mind right now might be how he's going to give Sasuke a compelling reason to fight Naruto one more time (since it's something he claimed he'd save for last).

[ranchan13]

Originally Posted by sayde

Orochimaru could throw us a curve ball and be that guy. But Kishi might have no more need for a "true villain" since the story is supposed to be come to a close. I think the only thing on Kishi's mind right now might be how he's going to give Sasuke a compelling reason to fight Naruto one more time (since it's something he claimed he'd save for last).

I'm honestly not so convinced that Sasuke or Orochimaru are on Naruto's side right now. Sure, they're working together, but I think THAT is a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Sasuke's turn to darkness was questionable at best, but his heel-face turn to be Naruto's BFF was more so. I'm fairly certain that once Madara and Obito are gone, Sasuke returns to business as usual, and declares that Konoha either follow him, or be destroyed.

Afterall, he did claim he wanted to be Hokage, and if that's not a viable option to claim his revenge for Itachi, then I can see him returning to Destroyer of Leaves mode.

[Eleutheria]

My friend's opinion of this chapter: "I read Naruto to see him kicking ass as a ninja, not kicking ass as a social worker"

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I think if we assume that Obito with the rinnegan can bring back the entire army (about 95% of them are already dead) then the cool thing to do now would be to somehow remove him from the war until the end, when he resurrects everyone and dies in the process. That would give space to Madara to do anything he wants, and by that i mean that he could kill Naruto's friends, the kages, any named character, etc. and with that bring the tension back to the story.

Sorry, but leaving an out like that and then going gung-ho with the senseless slaughtering of main characters does not create tension. And no, it wouldn't be the "cool" thing to do either, as it'd just be a rehash of the Pein climax. Except we'd see it coming, this time.