(CR) Saki Zenkoku-hen (National Tournament Arc)

[Magewolf]

I was hoping that Kyouko was upset because after the match was over she figured that Saki put her into second place because she was the weakest player at the table.That would have given her some real motivation to get stronger.

Of course it would not have been the truth but anyone looking at Saki's control over the table could not be faulted for thinking it.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Saki is an emotionally shattered wreck that hides behind the veil of a Mahjong super monster who's hidden behind the veil of a dorky dojikko. She doesn't socialize well when she does at all. There are a lot of issues underneath the surface that we've only just begun to see.

Pretty much this. Saki is a mess, and it translates to her way of playing if certain conditions are met, that is, if she plays against someone half decent at mahjong, and this might just be what Himematsu will be exploiting. Hell, the anime clearly showed she spent the whole game, or at least the second half, doing things automatically despite her position just to fulfill her little mahjong tick, you'd have to be a moron to not use that, just put some pressure on her and you're on a set course to victory as long as you're skilled enough to see through her moves (which Kyoko has proven to be, even if a little late).

Originally Posted by Magewolf

I was hoping that Kyouko was upset because after the match was over she figured that Saki put her into second place because she was the weakest player at the table.That would have given her some real motivation to get stronger.

Of course it would not have been the truth but anyone looking at Saki's control over the table could not be faulted for thinking it.

Kyoko kinda sees it that way, but rather than being seen as weak by others, she's upset at herself for not being able to figure out Saki's tricks sooner.

That's kind of a similarity they both: underestimating themselves. Only Kyoko seems to be way more to open to change, while Saki is too scared to even try. Even now she's only doing what Hisa told her, not even trying something on her own to change, something even Kuro managed to do.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Mind you, the person who should be the most frustrated is Hisa. Her two star players both have potentially major issues - One refuses to accept the existence of mahjong superpowers, and the other is terrified of just solidly above average players.

So for Hisa, you have two excellent players, but you honestly have to be deeply worried about how they're going to perform from match to match. Is this the day that Nodoka gets brutally exploited due to denying mahjong superpowers? Is this the day when Saki crumbles at the table from her fear?

Hisa should get a job as a sports psychologist after player/coaching this team.

Nodoka is almost a non-issue, just change "occult" for any other word and you're golden. And given Nodoka's track record, she's the last player Hisa should worry about in terms of performance. Saki is the big problem. Thankfully, Hisa has proven to know how to deal with her in the past being pretty unorthodox herself when needed.

[panzerfan]

Making a rational argument so that Nodoka would do as you wish isn't so easy. Hisa did ask Nodoka to be open to the very remote possibility of honor tile pon (Hatsumi) as a lead up to big hands, but Nodoka didn't really follow through on it. Having said that, Hisa has been successful in helping both of them play better at the table. There's serious challenges to address for those two, but Hisa is clearly thinking of ways to get around the very teething problems.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

Making a rational argument so that Nodoka would do as you wish isn't so easy. Hisa did ask Nodoka to be open to the very remote possibility of honor tile pon (Hatsumi) as a lead up to big hands, but Nodoka didn't really follow through on it. Having said that, Hisa has been successful in helping both of them play better at the table. There's serious challenges to address for those two, but Hisa is clearly thinking of ways to get around the very teething problems.

Well, I trust Nodoka will do well because Nodoka, but Saki's whole character revolves around how much of a mess she is, not to mention her issues, whatever they might be, aren't simple stubborness.

[eavein18]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Pretty much this. Saki is a mess, and it translates to her way of playing if certain conditions are met, that is, if she plays against someone half decent at mahjong, and this might just be what Himematsu will be exploiting. Hell, the anime clearly showed she spent the whole game, or at least the second half, doing things automatically despite her position just to fulfill her little mahjong tick, you'd have to be a moron to not use that, just put some pressure on her and you're on a set course to victory as long as you're skilled enough to see through her moves (which Kyoko has proven to be, even if a little late).

I'm actually dreading this....

here is a good post from the manga thread

Originally Posted by darkchez11

let see, saki hmm... if her opponents will be able to stop her +/- zero and prevent her for making any kans what would left with saki then? (inner demon lord? lol)

Joke aside I think her +/- zero is actually like a seal blocking her true potential. about her kans it seems like she's just favoring that move because she's so attach with that yaku after all it was something that teru told her about. so if those two things will be stop by her opponents by any means its probably time for saki to show some development and open up to the readers, I mean she's like one of the biggest mystery of this series, (beside people wondering where are all the panties have gone to.)

what am I saying is that by countering saki and preventing her to do her "defense mechanism" (+/- zero, kans) sort of, might actually turnout a counterproductive moves for them later on as she might go offensive with them. remember in the art of war sun tzu said "Put the army in the face of death, where there is no escape – and they will not flee or be afraid; there is nothing they cannot achieve."

plus the fact Saki start her +/- 0 because she is scolded for winning too much

though it would be fun (to see the result) if someone did try

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Well, I trust Nodoka will do well because Nodoka, but Saki's whole character revolves around how much of a mess she is, not to mention her issues, whatever they might be, aren't simple stubbornness.

No, but Hisａ　can't help Saki if Saki doesn't open up about her problems. She only made the whole Nagano crew know about her relation to Teru, and that's about it. Her explanation on playing the way she does has also remained really shallow, no matter how we cut it.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

No, but Hisａ　can't help Saki if Saki doesn't open up about her problems. She only made the whole Nagano crew know about her relation to Teru, and that's about it. Her explanation on playing the way she does has also remained really shallow, no matter how we cut it.

It's not like she needs to solve all her problems outside the table, in fact, is IN the table where most issues should get solved in this series (it is a sports series, after all). All Saki needs is the push, or rather, the courage to give it a shot, which might not need a full explanation, just understanding there's something wrong, and some good instinct.

Besides, Hisa is already a harem lead, she doesn't need to go around solving everyone's problems

Originally Posted by eavein18

I'm actually dreading this....

It does sound like a mean way to go about things, but when you're dealing with such a presence, which hasn't even reached her full potential, it might be worth a shot.

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

All Saki needs is the push, or rather, the courage to give it a shot, which might not need a full explanation, just understanding there's something wrong, and some good instinct...

That Saki who is not afraid of anything anymore might outright shatter Teru's mirror into a million shards out of genuine happiness as she plays the tiles with glee. The thought of Saki going all out to manipulate the table so that everyone will bleed to death from point loss somehow disturbs me.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

That Saki who is not afraid of anything anymore might outright shatter Teru's mirror into a million shards out of genuine happiness as she plays the tiles with glee. The thought of Saki going all out to manipulate the table so that everyone will bleed to death from point loss somehow disturbs me.

When the time comes, blame Ikuno and Kyoko for unleashing the beast. Saki will just be reaching her revelation moment as main character.

[teja208]

I agree that Saki fears those who can exploit her playstyle, and whether it's intentional or not, Kyouko comes the closest of all the opponents in doing so. Kyouko is the only one who figured out Saki's doing her +/-0 in a sneaky way. She is the most adaptable and unpredictable of all her opponents this round despite being normal, but being normal in the world full of mahjong superpowers maybe one of the factors that's motivating her to rely on her wits.

This is what makes the difference between the winners and loosers of this match. While Toyone and Kasumi mostly dependent on their hexes to rake points, both Kyouko and Saki focusing more analyzing their opponents and exploit their weakpoints. They both won because they can read and adapt to situations; it makes a more satisfying victory than "I won because of my hex is stronger than yours" or "I won with pure gut and power of friendship."

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by teja208

I agree that Saki fears those who can exploit her playstyle, and whether it's intentional or not, Kyouko comes the closest of all the opponents in doing so. Kyouko is the only one who figured out Saki's doing her +/-0 in a sneaky way. She is the most adaptable and unpredictable of all her opponents this round despite being normal, but being normal in the world full of mahjong superpowers maybe one of the factors that's motivating her to rely on her wits.

This is what makes the difference between the winners and loosers of this match. While Toyone and Kasumi mostly dependent on their hexes to rake points, both Kyouko and Saki focusing more analyzing their opponents and exploit their weakpoints. They both won because they can read and adapt to situations; it makes a more satisfying victory than "I won because of my hex is stronger than yours" or "I won with pure gut and power of friendship."

Saki's table control sure felt supernatural to me, though. She literally played EVERYONE without their noticing (Kyoko did, but she didn't grasp the whole reach of it till later) to reach a very specific result TWICE, and under abnormal conditions (She only reached +/-0 looking at the game from a different perspective than usual). That is pure hax.

Unfortunately for Saki, that versatile control seems to be used for a specific result, which kinda renders the versatility part moot. That's where Kyoko's adaptability comes into play.

[teja208]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Saki's table control sure felt supernatural to me, though. She literally played EVERYONE without their noticing (Kyoko did, but she didn't grasp the whole reach of it till later) to reach a very specific result TWICE, and under abnormal conditions (She only reached +/-0 looking at the game from a different perspective than usual). That is pure hax.

Unfortunately for Saki, that versatile control seems to be used for a specific result, which kinda renders the versatility part moot. That's where Kyoko's adaptability comes into play.

Yeah I agree actually.

In Saki case, it can be interpret a, "You (Kyouko) and I won because I was aiming for +/-0."

But really, even though Saki didn't aim to win this time, she won't be able to do her thing without reading and adapting to situations, like exploiting both Toyone and Kasumi powers for example. So it's not pure hex IMO.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by teja208

Yeah I agree actually.

In Saki case, it can be interpret a, "You (Kyouko) and I won because I was aiming for +/-0."

But really, even though Saki didn't aim to win this time, she won't be able to do her thing without reading and adapting to situations, like exploiting both Toyone and Kasumi powers for example. So it's not pure hex IMO.

Kasumi's ability helped her in a way that didn't need reading, the tile hoarding naturally helped Saki's hands, the part that required thinking was how to BYPASS those abilities, which could be done at the same time, dead wall and all. Unfortunately, while you can't stop Saki from thinking, you can probably think AHEAD of her, another thing Kyoko seems to excel at.

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by teja208

Yeah I agree actually.

In Saki case, it can be interpret a, "You (Kyouko) and I won because I was aiming for +/-0."

But really, even though Saki didn't aim to win this time, she won't be able to do her thing without reading and adapting to situations, like exploiting both Toyone and Kasumi powers for example. So it's not pure hex IMO.

Saki puts two haxes into use. The first being her unnatural ability to see into what's in the dead tile mountain and the other being her ability to read into her opponents hand. It requires an astonishing amount of maneuvering to game the whole table for that ±0 to happen (remember Nodoka's own experiment about ±0 with all exposed hands,) and it calls for that "superhuman luck" to make those near impossible hands happen.

I honestly feel that it is easier for Saki to just win outright if she were to rely purely on her haxes (look at the details filled in about South 3rd round with Saki setting Kyouko up for the win,) and that her results are all made deliberately made through mental calculation for that very specific set of outcome.

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Kasumi's ability helped her in a way that didn't need reading, the tile hoarding naturally helped Saki's hands, the part that required thinking was how to BYPASS those abilities, which could be done at the same time, dead wall and all. Unfortunately, while you can't stop Saki from thinking, you can probably think AHEAD of her, another thing Kyoko seems to excel at.

Kyouko's greatest struggle in this match was that she failed to realize just what Saki was doing when it comes to building her hands in order to get ±0. In the match to come, Kyouko would be prepared to either play to Saki's predisposition or to try undermining her by making short runs or even feed points into other players... the problem will be the case of whether or not if Kyouko can do what Hisa did long enough and win.

I actually feel like cheering for Kyouko. She's up against very overwhelming odds. The semifinal game features top schools after all.

[Kinematics]

Ok, lots of little things. Taking notes.

Originally Posted by Kinematics

However, in figuring that out, I also see something else wrong -- Saki deliberately did not win.

This assertion that I made is wrong. We get to see Saki's full hand before she folds it down, and she could not have won on the second kan draw. The character side of her hand was 33-55-7 at the time of the kan, and changed to 33-555 two draws later, in a tenpai wait for the 1 or 4 sou/bamboo.

My speculation was based on the premise that she was probably tenpai at the point she kan'd, but that was false.

Originally Posted by Kinematics

So she's playing some other game that we're not seeing yet.

Well, now we get the game she was going for: +-0. She took an 8000 point dealer hit from Kyouko, then restored the deficit with the final cheap hand.

The question is, why the big show? Well, it was for exactly the purpose that Kasumi and Kyouko speculated on -- to increase the dora. Except, not Saki's dora, but Kyouko's dora. It increased Kyouko's final hand value from a 12k haneman to a 16k baiman (assuming she won by tsumo either way).

Kyouko's hand:
Tsumo - 1 han
Ryan-pei-kou (double ii-pei-kou, pair sequences) - 3 han
Pin-fu (all sequences) - 1 han
Tan-yao (no terminals or honors) - 1 han
2 dora - 2 han

Total: 8 han (baiman, 4000/8000)

Without those dora, Kyouko's hand would have been 3000/6000.


Aside: someone had a chart of all the hands' values, but I can't find it.. Recreating the score sequences in the second hanchan (and hopefully don't mess up the secondary point stuff)....

      Saki     Kyouko     Kasumi     Toyone
E1   -2000      -2000      -2000       6000 (Toyone's single wait)
     -2700      -2700      -2700       8100 (Another single wait; 2700/all includes the +300 from dealer repeat)
     -3200      -3200      12600      -6200 (Kasumi summons her god; 12k haneman, plus 600 for 2 dealer repeats)
E2   -4000      -8000      16000      -4000 (Kasumi's baiman)
E3   -2000       4000      -1000      -1000 (Kyouko's 3P changeup)
E4    9000      -2000      -4000      -3000 (Saki's kan/riichi/rinshan kaihou; Toyone's chase riichi give an extra 1000)
S1    7900      -2000      -2000      -3900 (simple tsumo)
S2    8000      -4000      -2000      -2000 (rinshan kaihou)
S3   -8000      16000      -4000      -4000 (monocle-breaking power)
S4    1600       -400       -800       -400 (finish up)

Ttl:  4600      -4300      10100     -10400

Necessary score for +-0: between +4600 and +5500, and -not- in first place. As we see, Saki is at +4600, and is in second place to Kasumi (within the imaginary local game score, not the actual match score).

Now, if she hadn't called kan in S3 to give Kyouko two extra dora, and Kyouko still won with tsumo, Saki would have taken a -6000 hit instead of -8000. That would have put her at +5000 (still +-0), but -any- tsumo (other than a non-dealer tsumo as cheap as the one she went out on, and no other player would do that) in the final hand (hers or anyone else's) would have knocked her off that point. She also needed to be careful about who won the final hand, though the risk of her dropping to third was pretty low.

Aside: Kasumi winning in the final hand would not have really mattered for the overall match score. Since Kasumi was dealer that round, and she must necessarily win with tsumo, all the relative standings of the other players would remain static: Saki > Kyouko > Toyone. Kiyosumi would still have advanced; it just would have put Eisui in first place, and messed with Saki's +-0 target. Technically Kasumi could have also continued with a dealer repeat, but there would be no point in that.


Now, back to the monocle hand. What effects did the kan have?

Without the draw order shift (and ignoring Kasumi's power for the moment), Kasumi would have drawn/discarded the 9man that Kyouko passed on when Toyone discarded it. After that Toyone would have gotten the 6man that Kyouko needed, and Kyouko would have ron'd Toyone. However, without tsumo (and the extra dora from the kan) it would have only been a 5 han mangan (8000 points), barely better than the 7700 she passed on, and nowhere near enough to get 2nd place.

However there are four issues with the above scenario:

1) If Kasumi had discarded the 9man and Kyouko passed on it, she would have been temporary furiten, and wouldn't have been able to call the 6man that Toyone dropped.

2) Kyouko would have taken the 9man from Kasumi because Kasumi is in 2nd place, and a ron on her would easily push Himematsu into qualifying status. So she wouldn't have passed on that tile at that point.

3) Kasumi, being the defensive player she is, would never discard a tile that Kyouko would need. Thus the 9 would have stayed in her hand, Kyouko wouldn't be temporary furiten, and she'd win off of Toyone's tile instead. However that wouldn't be sufficient to overtake Eisui, and Himematsu would end up being dropped.

4) But most importantly, Kasumi would never draw the 9man in the first place -- her power prevents it.

It's entirely possible that -Saki- may been intended to draw the 9man, and that Kasumi's power would have inserted a pin tile, and then Toyone would have gotten the 6man (leading to the same situation where Kyouko would have only gotten an 8000 ron off Toyone). Instead, Saki got the kan draw, shifting the 9man to Kasumi, whereupon Kasumi's power inserted a pin tile, shifting the 9man down one further to Toyone, and thus the 6man to Kyouko.

Of course even before that, the adjustment to the draw order gave Kyouko the extra 7 she needed to be ready to get the ryan-pei-kou yaku. (really confusing to try to figure out who would have gotten which tile while accounting for Kasumi's power)

Draw/discard sequence after the kan:
Saki (kan): 6sou/6sou
Kasumi: ??/1pin
Toyone: ??/s.wind
Kyouko: 9sou/9sou
Saki: s.wind/s.wind
Kasumi: w.wind/w.wind
Toyone: ??/7sou
Kyouko: 7man/2sou (is now in tenpai)
Saki: 5man/7man (is now in tenpai, waiting on 1sou or 4sou)
Kasumi: 5pin/4pin (is now in tenpai, waiting on 2pin or 8pin; most likely to win with baiman (4000/8000))
Toyone: 9man/9man
Kyouko: 6man~~tsumo


Without knowing exactly how Kasumi's power operates (does it insert a new tile if she would have otherwise drawn from a different suit, just pushing the 'bad' tile to the next player, or does it change/swap the tile with another one somewhere else in the wall?) it's hard to say whether Kyouko would have reached a proper tenpai without the draw adjustment. I'm going to bet on "no".

So, Saki increased Kyouko's hand value, specifically enough to take Saki below the +-0 mark, while also using the kan draw and Kasumi's power to shift Kyouko's draws to those that would complete her hand.

The power surge may have been a manifestation of the power that was necessary to completely subvert the power of the god that was possessing Kasumi, cause it's clear there were some massive shenanigans going on. Changing up the tile sequence while accounting for a god that was -also- changing up the tile sequence is probably pretty tricky.




What about Toyone? We only get a very brief glimpse of her hand, but there's something interesting there, too -- she has the other two of the 4man tiles, the dora that Saki exposed. She also has a 1sou, the other dora. Overall hand:

44m -- dora pair
57m -- waiting on the 6man that Kyouko tsumo'd on
123s -- sequence with dora
45s -- sequence waiting on a 3s; can't complete with a 6s because Saki got them all
8s -- leftover tile
ccc -- 3 red dragons

So if the tile order hadn't been shifted, Toyone would have gotten the 6m tile and been in tenpai waiting on 3 sou or 6 sou. Unfortunately Saki has (or discarded) all the 6 sou, and of the 3 sou: 1 is in Toyone's hand, Saki has one, and two are still in play. With 3 dora, the triplet of dragons, and tsumo, she'd get a mangan: 2000/4000. Not enough to bring her up to 2nd place.

On the other hand, if Toyone also won the final S4 hand with a score between 1600/3200 and 2000/4000, Miyamori would have taken 2nd place while Saki still remained +-0.

If Saki hadn't changed the draw order, Toyone would have gotten the 9sou, which would have gone together with her 8sou and allow her to change from a 45 set to an 89 set, waiting on the 7sou. Coincidentally, she discards a 7sou the next round.

My guess as to why Saki didn't leave things to Toyone is that Toyone wouldn't have changed up her wait, but rather expect that she still had good odds on the 3/6 wait. She can't feel the flow, and realize she needs to adjust, so Saki can't rely on her to manage the win. It's a little tricky due to the draw order shifts, but I think the purpose of Saki's kan was to shift the win from Toyone to Kyouko, because Toyone wouldn't have grasped what she needed to do in order to win. On the other hand, Saki had to do a hellish manipulation to get Kyouko's hand's point value high enough to be useful.

So, she would have preferred to have let the 'easier' opponent, Miyamori, through, but in order to achieve her own goals (the +-0 game) she had to take the 'stronger' opponent with her.



Finally, for all that Saki professes to be scared of Kyouko, the majority of Kyouko's points in the second hanchan were specifically because of Saki's manipulations. She gave her the 8sou to pon in E3, and she doubled Kyouko's hand value in S3; those were the only two hands Kyouko won. So essentially, 12,000 out of 20,000 points were due to Saki, assuming Kyouko could have even gotten her second-to-last tile in S3 without Saki's manipulations. Potentially, -all- of Kyouko's points were due to Saki's manipulations.

On the other hand, Kyouko kept fighting right up to the end, while Toyone and Kasumi were very dependent on their hax powers, and felt less like they had the drive to put everything they had into winning.

[Kinematics]

Addendum:

Just realized an additional point on Toyone's hand: She discarded a 7sou on the round -just before- the kan. I'm guessing she broke up her 78 set and switched to the 45 set at that point, which lost her the ability to use the un-shifted 9sou that would have come the round after that.

That's the point where Saki made her decision as to which of the two she would manipulate things for.

[panzerfan]

@Kinematics:
The south 3 was decisive in deciding that Kyouko would advance instead of Toyone. The original manga did not bother with any discussion about south 4, and what you have described here is consistent to the original presentation of the all last.

What is your projection on Saki winning South 3 had she continue to kan with the 6 sou by the way?

[raincrow]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

However, I find it pretty hard to understand how it was Kyouko that Saki seemed most scared of.

I suppose you could say that Kyouko showed good tenacity, good resiliency, and good tactical mahjong play. And I suppose if Saki somehow picked up on all of that (which would be borderline mind-reading, but Ok...), then she might find this strength a bit intimidating.

I think her intelligence and analysis was an important factor for her, but I think a possibly bigger factor is the fact that Kyouko doesn't have any powers. In other words, she doesn't have a set play style, so what is there to directly counter and plan for? This is in contrast to the other two players of who got their powers specifically zeroed out by Saki. Kyouko coming in 2nd when Saki didn't actually want that should prove that: she got her +/- zero, but didn't know how to take one specific player out of the game.

Now on the other side...Kyouko's preparing her game for Saki in the rematch thanks to Yoshiko. I want to say that might actually be her detriment, because following a set game plan versus someone kind of works against you if the opponent ends up surprising you. But then again, if she's actually a real adaptable player, that might not matter.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

I really liked the expanded moments on Hiroe. Gave her some depth to back up that arrogance. She really is a cool Captain in her own way, accurate in her prognosis of her teammates' strengths and weaknesses, supportive, but not overbearing. She takes on the burden herself, drawing the attention of opponents and then actually succeeding in grabbing points and getting her team a lead so that her teammates aren't pressured so much. In ep. 11, her comment to Kyouko that the match is just beginning (so put it behind you, and keep going), cheering on Kyouko's win, and then in ep. 12, while everyone else is freaking out over Kyouko's South 3 play, she watches on calmly and smiles before seeing the tile draw. That moment was great. Plus her enthusiastically reassuring Kyouko on making it through, even if in 2nd place. Really cute and indicative of the strong friendship between Kyouko and Hiroe, both as 3rd years nominally leading the club.

I really like Hiroe too I personally would like to see more trash talkers in the Saki world, someone who isn't always sweet as sugar. But it's also cool that Hiroe treats her team mates very well at the same time.

Now as an aside...I always wondered what would happen if Kyouko and Hiroe got into a disagreement about something regarding the club or tactics or whatever. I thought Kyouko was the club president for awhile since she seemed to be the one doing all the homework (I pulled a Fujita) and just acted very leader'ish. I saw some fan art that depicted them having a stare down over some issue, and I thought it was great. Neither one of them looked to be budging and Hiroe looked pretty mad You know, given all the things that go into making a successful club, there's bound to be some fights and arguments over the direction from the leaders and prominent players of the team.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

@Kinematics:
The south 3 was decisive in deciding that Kyouko would advance instead of Toyone. The original manga did not bother with any discussion about south 4, and what you have described here is consistent to the original presentation of the all last.

What is your projection on Saki winning South 3 had she continue to kan with the 6 sou by the way?

I still think Saki was pretty much guaranteed a 1 sou or 4 sou from the dead wall if she took the second kan. She'd then discard the 7 man, and win with tsumo when she got the red 5 man two turns later, just as the others are hitting tenpai.

If I'm counting the score right, it would have been a 3200/all hand (tsumo, dora if she got 1 sou for the set, aka dora, two kans and a triplet), possibly more if the third dora indicator matched one of her sets. Because she was dealer, though, the rankings of the other three schools would remain the same, with Eisui solidly in second place. That would never change for as long as Saki was dealer because she'd never be able to ron Kasumi.


I suspect she did -not- want to take Eisui with them to the next round. If Jindai got her gods going early, she'd crush Yuuki. Without Sae blocking Hatsumi, she'd crush Nodoka. And Kasumi's defensive play means it would be incredibly difficult to come back from the deficit.

Note (opinion): Saki was upset that she was taking the strongest individual opponent (for her) up with them, but not so much the strongest team. I'm pretty sure they can evaluate Eisui as (potentially) the strongest opponent of the set they fought against this round. Kasumi won't overwhelm Saki, and Saki can work around her, but the combination of all the rounds together may make a win impossible. Kyouko, on the other hand, is merely Saki's personal nemesis (of a sorts).

[Flower]

I completely agree that Saki's first concern was to not let the Eisui team advance, and for all the reasons you mentioned - Saki might be able to handle Kasumi, but Yuuki and Nodoka could easily have been chewed up and spit out by Jindai and Hatsumi.