2009-06-02, 13:09 | Link #1101 | ||
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Japan is a wonderful, beautiful society (like many asian cultures) with its own cartload of nasty ugly bits. All societies (east or west) have their own nasty bits and its a strategic error to think of a society as a fantasy nirvana. Quote:
Also, I've seen no data to imply there really is much in the way of "casual fans" in Japan. The anime fandom in Japan has a much different texture than the fandom in the US (or the West for that matter). There are *closet* fans or manga fans who may watch an adaptation of a favorite manga. ... Manga is very accepted in Japan (though you have to watch what you're seen reading) but, in general, anime is considered a "weird hobby" so "casual" may not be very applicable. This would probably shift faster as a trend if the otaku-dom were integrating into society more as they grew up, became less afraid of being "outed", and started breeding -- the way "geeks, trekkies, and nerds" overseas are shifting perceptions of them by doing the same.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-06-02 at 13:42. Reason: the babelfish plug-in keeps pooping on my posts |
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2009-06-02, 20:06 | Link #1102 | ||
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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Anime industry is not a single entity, like some would believe. It's a diversified entity, just like the American film industry. You can't talk about the entire "Anime industry" and say what it's focusing on. Because it is a multi-market industry diversified into serving its general base. The largest market is, and has always been, children's market. There are far more toys and goods bought by parents for their little kids than what the entire population of otaku culture can consume. Although there are consumers who intertwine between these diverse markets, they are minority and not the target base. And some people argue "well otaku have more money to consume since that's all they buy". While this is true, comparing 1:1 proves nothing, when the base number of consumers is extremely one-sided. There are far more parents and children in the country than there are otaku. FAR MORE. It doesn't matter if one otaku consumes $1000 worth of goods in one month, when there are 500 children for each number of otaku consuming $10 a month. Anyways, back to the topic, I got side-tracked. The correct question would be, "is the otaku anime market growing, and the general anime market getting smaller?" I think the otaku anime market will try to put out as many titles as possible to appease its audience to "find" that sweet franchise. But churning out titles like that will can only put them in black. Look at the terrible DVD sales for example. If the hard core otaku consuming habits keeps growing, to become larger profit than the larger number of casual fans, then I guess we could see more otaku-heavy titles than not. But I don't think we've ever seen such a market in any media. Casual fans always outnumber hardcore fans greatly, and thus a more profitable base to market to. General anime market, if there is such a thing, will continue to do what it always did: solidify the franchise they have, instead of pumping out mediocre titles. Now, one thing I don't understand well about your question.... what exactly is a "anime title for non-anime fans"? As far as I can remember, non-anime fans don't.... you know, enjoy anime in the first place. Only exception to that I can think of, are teenage and older shoujo manga fans who enjoy watching likes of NANA, but don't enjoy anime in general. Quote:
Casual fans of what? Otaku anime franchise that targets otaku consumers will obviously focus on their main base, and franchise that targets general market will focus its general appeal, while children market (the largest) will focus on producing products more attractive to children. Like I said, "Anime industry" isn't a single entity.
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Last edited by aohige; 2009-06-02 at 20:42. |
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2009-06-02, 20:20 | Link #1104 | |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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It will only get worse in the next several hundred years if it doesn't improve. Although I'm not worried about it, when eldery becomes majority and economy cave in, people will start breeding like rabbits like the rest of the world, and it'll all even out in the course of centuries. It's not like it'll be the first time Japan was short on youth, and bred like rabbits. Same thing happened post-WWII. Besides, I think having lower birthrate is a good thing in the long run. There should be less of us humans, we expanded six times the number in mere 200 years, I don't think Earth resource can handle it anymore.
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Last edited by aohige; 2009-06-02 at 20:31. |
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2009-06-02, 21:10 | Link #1106 |
The GAP Man
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Why is it with Otaku and untouched maidens? Why is it frowned upon when japanese otaku discover that they favorite characters had already been taken by someone else? And they had intercourse with them? I ask this because of the Kannagi debacle or even the doujins I read where I see secenes of explict sex yet theya re still consider "pure" by otaku. Why is this?
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Last edited by Guernsey; 2009-06-02 at 21:33. |
2009-06-03, 00:22 | Link #1107 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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First, not all otaku think that way --- actually its a rather small but very loud minority from what I can gather. I suppose you could argue that they're just very retro-conservative that way - a weird cultural flashback to extremely misogynistic times.
Another argument might be that the small faction that gets their undies all wadded up over the notion are also "untouched by women" and they hate the idea of their fantasy object having more experience than them. Whatever, there's little reason not to skewer such nonsense when it crops up - whether it be abusive of 2D fictional women or real world seiyuu/idol women. It is fundamentally irrational and shows a distinct failure to connect the dots as you notice
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2009-06-03, 01:51 | Link #1108 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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Virginity being sacred is a Western cultural influence, not a Japanese one. Japanese culture has traditionally been very open about sexuality, and even homosexuality. For example traveling shrine priestess of shinto also served as prostitutes, and sex with young boys and girls was a common and accepted culture during the feudal times.
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2009-06-03, 02:03 | Link #1110 | |
World's Greatest
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Age: 36
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2009-06-03, 02:26 | Link #1111 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2009-06-03, 02:33 | Link #1112 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Very touching stuff. Highly recommended. *sniff* |
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2009-06-03, 12:44 | Link #1114 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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The miko=temple_priestess=sex_ritualist is very old (the term "prostitute" is misleading and degrading -- a very Victorian assessment of what temple priestesses did in pagan cultures == sex magic) .... to most Shinto-ists, miko are "traditionally" young *maidens* who retire when they become young *women*. I'm guessing that there's a fantasy aspect of virginity for fetish-types. (actual shinto practice tends to be more practical... don't ask, don't tell) I've always loved the miko garb long before I knew a thing about Shinto simply because it is a very cool looking outfit.
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2009-06-03, 13:17 | Link #1115 | |
Otaku Apprentice
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I think I saw some table that says: As of 2002 (but it's so old at Nipponia magazine... so I need to find a better one) http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nippon...feature02.html Japan > Overseas
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2009-06-03, 17:30 | Link #1116 | |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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It was immensely popular among my generation when it was being serialized.
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2009-06-03, 22:51 | Link #1118 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Anime is widely accepted in Japan and is a form of mainstream media (much more so than in the US). So there is really no "non-anime fan". Most Japanese knows a thing or two about anime and manga having watched or read them growing up. I had a fun chat with my professor and his wife about various manga they knew during my study abroad in Japan while their kids spend part of their morning watch PreCure...just to show how entrenched anime is in Japan.
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2009-06-03, 23:08 | Link #1119 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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But most people grow up out of it, and in general treat anime as something for children. Otaku culture is not as widly accepted as you want to think, people who are still into anime after being grown up are looked down by the majority. Because the otaku that grew up in the 80s are now adults, there are more otaku population than before, but it's still a minority. It's still treated as a geek culture in Japan. You're preaching to Buddha, dude. I'm an otaku generation that grew up in Japan, experienced 80s, 90s, and 2000~ era myself. I know very well first-hand how we are preceieved in Japan, and who the fanbase are. Anime fans/Otaku/Adults who are into anime = kimoi This is a general stereotype, that is the reality. Just go to Japan, turn on the TV, and change the channels a few times. You'll find many stereotype of anime fans being presented as horrible low-lifes the TV variety shows (and girls on the street) make fun of. Sure, not everyone's anti-otaku. It's a stereotype, and anime is very popular culture while also being looked down by many. Think of it like... Star Trek. Trekkies are often the target practice for the majority to stereotype and make fun of, yet the franchise is immensely popular at the same time. Quote:
You don't treat Disney film audience the same as you treat Teen Aqua Force fans, or adults who read Marvel comics do you? There ya go.
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Last edited by aohige; 2009-06-03 at 23:24. |
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culture, discussion, japan, japanese culture |
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