Fate/stay night Episode 19 Discussion thread

[ZeRoGravity]

Caster:"What the fuck was the point of my part of the story?

Teacher:"I don't know, but you got me killed too you bitch, should've let you die that day...anyway why were you dying anyway?"

Gate of Babylon was kinda nice, too bad the actual projectiles ended up as nothing but yellow flashes. Also, the absence of the finger snap was unforgivable, it's was the defining sound signaling the attack!
Also, it's a little funny to see Caster and Kuzuki-sensei already moving into the "farewell-my-love" mode while killer yellow beams are still raining down around them.

Yes and Yes, Caster story was totally undeveloped and Kazuki just standing was ftw? Hundreds of yellow flashing swords are coming his way and all he does is just stands there. Anyways i was surprise as to what Gil said to Saber though, and did anyone catch what Assassin said about Saber before he disappeared? That gave made me smile. I dunno, this anime is going downhill for me unless the later episodes gets better, as in story about Gil or whatever there is left to tell is as good as the Caster arc =/.

[gammaoh]

Well, IMO, this series isn't going downhill but we can't really argue on tastes, can we?

What I really loved in this eppy is this:

Spoiler:

[Deathkillz]

the series isnt going downhill at all...its still interesting to watch
anyway theres like 5 eps left so enjoy while you can...

[ZeRoGravity]

ok, forgot to ask, how did Gil stayed after the holy grail war ended? Saber said that she destroyed the holy grail? im confuse and now Gil doesn't have a master? whats going on.

[rpgkiller999]

Spoiler:

When Shirou Traces a weapon, he also Traces the skill of those whom once used the weapon.

Yeah, I know that, but 2 epi ago he traced the same weapon but couldn't handle the impact of Kuzuki's punches and bleed. But in this and last epi Shiro is able to stand the impact and put on a fight. Hard to imagine your strength and endurance can improve so much in a day in anime time. Or Shiro 'level up' after beating the skeletons?

[Mentar]

I strongly disagree with USCpharmacist and ZeRoGravity. I think that they did a very good job giving some depth to the Servants, and actually, I found the little details to especially the Caster/Kuzuki backstory very touching.

I mean, what exactly was difficult to understand? And what was supposedly "underdeveloped"? As compared to what?

With a trace of education, the name Medea should ring a bell and give you some background info. If not, it's trivial to look it up in Wikipedia. They showed Caster as Medea. They showed Jason leave. They showed his betrayal and Medea's tears over it. They had shown before that Caster had killed her own master and was roaming around on her own, until her powers were depleted, and until she was taken in by Kuzuki. They showed Caster's unwillingness to open up even after she was rescued, until she realized that Kuzuki's help wasn't selfish by nature (which was the emotional wound she never overcame). In the last ep we saw that he was willing to accept Caster for what she was - being a very warped person to begin with. That he seemed to be what she was really looking for: Someone who truly accepted and cared for her for who she was. Who she loved and cared for in return. In the end, she died trying to protect him. And - for a single time Kuzuki was dishonest in pretending that he wasn't hit, to give Caster a sense of completion, thus showing that while what connected the two may not have been "love" in the common meaning of the world, he did care for her indeed.

To me, this was handled extremely well. A small glimpse into the life and mind of a villain and her mate, what led her there and how they ended. Nothing which I would consider "missing" or "undeveloped" (though I don't know the game).

I mean, more power to you, it's fine if you don't like it ... but as one of the few remaining people who are unspoiled, I can only say that the storytelling IS handled in a very impressive way. And if all of this leaves you cold to the characters, this ain't the show for you to begin with, I guess.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by ZeRoGravity

ok, forgot to ask, how did Gil stayed after the holy grail war ended? Saber said that she destroyed the holy grail? im confuse and now Gil doesn't have a master? whats going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgame.../stay_night%29

this should answer it...

[Archer]

Originally Posted by ZeRoGravity

ok, forgot to ask, how did Gil stayed after the holy grail war ended? Saber said that she destroyed the holy grail? im confuse and now Gil doesn't have a master? whats going on.

That'll be answered later.

[Circular Logic]

...What Mentar said.

[Shiroth]

Some people don't like the idea that they have to look up information about whats going on sometimes in the anime - thats why i said its a nice touch to the people who know everything from the game.

[jtrog]

hi!! Rated 10 on this one watching raw. Story weaving, some type of support between surviving 'masters' for each-other and Saber got to be 'narrator' for once letting Rin have a breather. I loved the fight scenes all through this one in artistry work.

Oh on the swords of Gil, a True sword can only be made once and its in all of 'sword history'.

I think Caster told 'her master' its over if they hit you stand behind me? Its hard to read a womans intuitional esp many times...

[ZeRoGravity]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I strongly disagree with USCpharmacist and ZeRoGravity. I think that they did a very good job giving some depth to the Servants, and actually, I found the little details to especially the Caster/Kuzuki backstory very touching.

I mean, what exactly was difficult to understand? And what was supposedly "underdeveloped"? As compared to what?

With a trace of education, the name Medea should ring a bell and give you some background info. If not, it's trivial to look it up in Wikipedia. They showed Caster as Medea. They showed Jason leave. They showed his betrayal and Medea's tears over it. They had shown before that Caster had killed her own master and was roaming around on her own, until her powers were depleted, and until she was taken in by Kuzuki. They showed Caster's unwillingness to open up even after she was rescued, until she realized that Kuzuki's help wasn't selfish by nature (which was the emotional wound she never overcame). In the last ep we saw that he was willing to accept Caster for what she was - being a very warped person to begin with. That he seemed to be what she was really looking for: Someone who truly accepted and cared for her for who she was. Who she loved and cared for in return. In the end, she died trying to protect him. And - for a single time Kuzuki was dishonest in pretending that he wasn't hit, to give Caster a sense of completion, thus showing that while what connected the two may not have been "love" in the common meaning of the world, he did care for her indeed.

The anime never showed Caster killing her master. I've already caught what you said from watching previous episodes but ty for mentioning something i didn't realize about in this episode. I still think Caster story is lacking, the way i see it, if the writers are gonna do just a little bit of Caster background might as well do it longer, not just a brief 1min moment for her.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by ZeRoGravity

The anime never showed Caster killing her master.

Yes they did. I can't tell the exact episode since I don't have them available right now, but IIRC it was during episode 17, when Ilya told them about it. Here we see Caster unleashing a barrage of her missiles, at the poor sap who summoned her.

I've already caught what you said from watching previous episodes but ty for mentioning something i didn't realize about in this episode. I still think Caster story is lacking, the way i see it, if the writers are gonna do just a little bit of Caster background might as well do it longer, not just a brief 1min moment for her.

Well, over the course of the episodes, I guess she got a total of 5 minutes for her backstory. I'd agree that it would have been nicer to allocate more time for it, but then, the anime _is_ living on a budget, and I couldn't say what should have been missing.

Okay - maybe it's because I have to watch every episode at least 4 times, but I really had no problem piecing together Caster's story at all. And if it still leaves someone entirely cold like USCpharmacist, then either it's not your kind of story at all, or he hasn't been paying sufficient attention. I can only say that I feel quite content

[demon_god04]

Pitures ARE worth 1000 words so this poste must be worth 1011 words -.-

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Pitures ARE worth 1000 words so this poste must be worth 1011 words -.-

one thing i dnt understand is why did caster killed her first master??? should would have know that she would disappear but did it anyway? O.o

[demon_god04]

hm well he was an abusive jerkwad, im certainly not shedding any tears hes gone

[ZeRoGravity]

Yes they did. I can't tell the exact episode since I don't have them available right now, but IIRC it was during episode 17, when Ilya told them about it. Here we see Caster unleashing a barrage of her missiles, at the poor sap who summoned her.

oh shit, Ilya did talk about it, forgot about it.

I couldn't say what should have been missing.

Everything was there but the depth towards her backgroud, as in things that happen in her previous life or before she met Kazuki wasn't emphasized. This i thought kinda made Caster very insignicant, and made all those small back flashes futile.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

one thing i dnt understand is why did caster killed her first master??? should would have know that she would disappear but did it anyway? O.o

All this is now just an interpretation of me, and I haven't played the game either (so I might be doubly wrong), but: To me it seems that the defining trauma Caster/Medea went through was when Jason betrayed her for the other princess. Medea had been helping Jason to acquire the golden fleece because she loved him, and he simply cast her aside to solely pursue his selfish wishes. That broke Caster/Medea.

My take is that she killed the master summoning her, because she was about to be used once more - this time by him, for the Grail war. She couldn't stand this, and since she had the necessary mana to keep going for a while, she killed him.

Now, after she had been collapsing, she met Kuzuki, and he simply cared for her WITHOUT expecting anything in return. That was a total first. He was kind to her, yet he didn't have any intention to exploit or use her. THAT is why he was so special to Caster. Even more, without any reason to do so, he was even willing to support Caster in her personal endeavour for the Grail.

It all leaves the impression of a very lonely soul, who was looking for love - and who at her end, managed to find it, in a way.

[F!reStr!fe]

Gave it a 9 thought it was good. At least Gil did his bad ass duty.
And the cutscenes of the past finally open up some history for us.

Also this brings that Archers don't have to be only all bow and arrows >_>

[Proto]

Originally Posted by the first post

Any spoilers from the game will be deleted. The entire post will be deleted (even if there is just a small part of the post containing spoilers). Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers. THIS INCLUDES THOSE WRITTEN INSIDE SPOILER TAGS!!!!

I think you should know by now not to read a spoiler - 'cause funny enough all of them are going to be game ones.. people know that by now.

On the other hand you should expect people to actually follow the rules so...