[Manga] Naruto Chapter 602 Discussion Thread

[Casshern]

Maybe Madara programmed the rinnegan to automatically rez him once Nagato had become powerful enough. If Itachi can put Shisui's eye into a crow, then stuff the crow into Naruto and program it to cast kotoamatsukami when Naruto's eyes make contact with Itachi's MS, then Madara can probably do a bit more.

Still, the plot is just unnecessarily convoluted. Madara already had Hashirama's dna in him. He should have been able to live an unnaturally long life without sucking chakra off the mazou. Even a normal person can live up to 100.

Instead of giving his rinnegan away, he could've used rinne tensei to bring back Izuna. Even better, he could've used edo tensei to rez him. An immortal indestructible Izuna would've been perfect to carry out his plan; the only other character who was on par with Madara, other than Hashirama. Madara and Izuna together would've been unstoppable.

[janipani]

I wish Kishi would have designed Rin differently.. she could at least look something else than simple version of Sakura even though she is "sakura" of that team.

[ronin myael]

hmmm... not a bad chapter except for the fact that obito really was/is pathetic.

this chapter pretty much confirms the earlier theories about madara dying much much later and that he was somehow kept alive by the zetsu cells he got from hashirama. not much was revealed in this chapter so i'm holding out until kishi gives us the full story.

[james0246]

What a strange combination of boring and awesome...truthfully, it is a combination I've come to expect from Kishimoto...

[Face718]

Maybe Rin was in ANBU with Kakashi and ended up dying.

[haegar]

While Madara looks kinda cool chapter didnt impress me much. I feel the attempt at humor was as displaced in this chapter here as it was carried out badly with Obito resembling Naruto's "eh WTF" face - apart from that how this all is supposed to fit together still confuses me though I'll be willing to give that another 2 chaps or so. I do hope though this doesn't take too long.
Oh and Obito just so happens to fall into Madara's secret tunnels when the rocks fell ?!?! - oh b**** please, u kiddin? I'd have much prefered Madara was scouting Obito from early on as he suspected the kid had a special sharingan. Not so sure I like this "sudden coincidence karma of two uchiha fucked over by fate meeting in some underground rathole to plot revenge on the world" angle.... (though maybe that is just Madara giving things a spin to win over Obito, we shall see...)

[Destined_Fate]

My issue is that Rin never returned Obito's love since she loved Kakashi. So Obito going all crazy over one sided love makes him look kinda creepy.

[Dengar]

Really? Because it seems to me that Obito isn't crazy yet, even though the love triangle has been known to him for a while.

[j0x]

Madara is turning to be a better hero than Naruto... Madara says --- look at reality, the world won't go the way you want it to, in this world there is light, there are shadows... as long as the concept of "winner" exist there will continue to be a "loser"... the selfish desire of wanting to preserve peace causes wars... hatred is born out of desire to protect loved ones... because you were hurt, other were saved --- i wonder what counter reason will Naruto throw at that lol he cant be a politician type of Hokage and say i will give everybody sufficient resources (food/shelter/etc) to eradicate criminal thinking

[james0246]

i wonder what counter reason will Naruto throw at that lol he cant be a politician type of Hokage and say i will give everybody sufficient resources (food/shelter/etc) to eradicate criminal thinking

Truthfully, you don't need real answers as so long as you can inspire hope and get the individuals to try and change themselves (this is what Naruto has always done). You don't need to get people to work together so much as you need to get people to want to try and work together.

Obito's problem isn't that Madara's more persuasive or that his arguments are better. No, Obito's problem is that he lost hope (undoubtedly spurred by the death of Rin).

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

But what in the meantime? Between giving his eyes to Nagato and waiting for someone to manipulate? Nagato could have easily been killed or starved to death.

yea, it does seem to hinge on hope, but maybe that's all madara had. or there could be more to the story that we have yet to see. the sharingan and rinnegan seem to activate when their hosts are in danger though, (as seen with sasuke and nagato and now obito) so perhaps madara was counting on the rinnegan intself to preserve nagato until he needed him

Originally Posted by haegar

I feel the attempt at humor was as displaced in this chapter here as it was carried out badly with Obito resembling Naruto's "eh WTF" face

i actually really liked that part. it shows that kishi didnt forget what happened in KG and is actually going to show us a true to form transformation of obito's personality change

Oh and Obito just so happens to fall into Madara's secret tunnels when the rocks fell ?!?! - oh b**** please, u kiddin?

yea, this i did not like either. i always assumed that madara knew obito would be special. it makes a lot more sense than obito falling into his lap by chance... but perhaps he is lying as you said. i hope he is

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

My issue is that Rin never returned Obito's love since she loved Kakashi. So Obito going all crazy over one sided love makes him look kinda creepy.

not really an issue. 1-sided love exists a lot in this world. also if you read the dialogue this chapter obito isn't creepy about rin. he still thinks about wanting to team up with kakashi and rin and to protect them. i think you are putting your own spin on things.

Originally Posted by j0x

i wonder what counter reason will Naruto throw at that lol he cant be a politician type of Hokage and say i will give everybody sufficient resources (food/shelter/etc) to eradicate criminal thinking

the counter to the moons eye plan has always been free will. is the absence of hate good if it also means the absence of love and choice? not really. thats more like 1984 with big brother in control of every aspect of our lives in order to "keep peace"

[j0x]

Originally Posted by james0246

Truthfully, you don't need real answers as so long as you can inspire hope and get the individuals to try and change themselves (this is what Naruto has always done). You don't need to get people to work together so much as you need to get people to want to try and work together.

inspire hope/good... i dont want to make this a religion topic but that is also what the savior from holy books are doing too... and through many years those inspirational ideas became twisted by greed and also became an excuse for people to start another wars

Originally Posted by james0246

Obito's problem isn't that Madara's more persuasive or that his arguments are better. No, Obito's problem is that he lost hope (undoubtedly spurred by the death of Rin).

i agree with that Obito said it himself he is NoOne or nobody anymore

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

the counter to the moons eye plan has always been free will. is the absence of hate good if it also means the absence of love and choice? not really. thats more like 1984 with big brother in control of every aspect of our lives in order to "keep peace"

free-will old concept but ye thats more of a possible counter to the moon eye plan that oppress free will

[james0246]

the counter to the moons eye plan has always been free will. is the absence of hate good if it also means the absence of love and choice? not really. thats more like 1984 with big brother in control of every aspect of our lives in order to "keep peace"

Free will isn't really a counter-argument to the moon's eye plan. In fact, arguably free will is the entire reason the moon's eye plan was created in the first place.

Originally Posted by j0x

inspire hope/good... i dont want to make this a religion topic but that is also what the savior from holy books are doing too... and through many years those inspirational ideas became twisted by greed and also became an excuse for people to start another wars

There's no need to bring religion into the discussion. Naruto isn't a messiah (even if he is a "chosen one"), he isn't even a "man with a plan". Naruto's ability seems to only inspire people to better themselves, consequently he is offering no false hope, or even faith, just a consummate belief that a better self can be strong enough to create a better tomorrow. That could undoubtedly fail, but if he can inspire enough then future generations will continue along these ideals and help to keep the progress going forward even if wars still exist and people still hurt one another (and honestly, that's all any leader can hope for).

[Dengar]

Well, this story has become about Free Will vs Ignorant Bliss since the war officially started. The side that wins will eventually end up being right, as usual.

[Eragon]

^ Isn't the winner already decided though?

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by james0246

There's no need to bring religion into the discussion. Naruto isn't a messiah (even if he is a "chosen one"), he isn't even a "man with a plan". Naruto's ability seems to only inspire people to better themselves, consequently he is offering no false hope, or even faith, just a consummate belief that a better self can be strong enough to create a better tomorrow. That could undoubtedly fail, but if he can inspire enough then future generations will continue along these ideals and help to keep the progress going forward even if wars still exist and people still hurt one another (and honestly, that's all any leader can hope for).

So Naruto is less Jesus and more Tim Tebow.

[willx]

I can't help but sympathize with Obito.. The new few chapters will probably be a giant mindf*ck for him and we'll watch his relentless spirit get utterly crushed and jaded..

And it's shocking how much more powerful than Kakkashi he becomes.. Damn you Uchiha clan and your h4x

[b1gdawg]

I don't really like how Obito got to where he is. Madara's secret lair just happened to be under that battle ground? There's gotta be more to it, Madara must have saved him, but how? He's old and can't detach from that thing. His powers must be low.

I also want to know where they are. Madara didn't really explain that. This chapter 90% revealed that Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan not Tobi, but why would Tobi say he gave Nagato the rinnegan? There was no reason for him to lie to Konan since he was about to kill her anyway. There must be part of Madara inside Obito.

Now i want to know where he got his left sharingan and why not the right one too. Why would he only take 1 eye and not both.

[Jpmartinez]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

But what in the meantime? Between giving his eyes to Nagato and waiting for someone to manipulate? Nagato could have easily been killed or starved to death. Madara's plan (with the info we know now, it could change in the future) was to give his eyes to Nagato. And then expected that Nagato will resurrect him. There are many flaws in this plan. And for someone who was praised as one of the best ninja ever. Madara sure let a lot of things things to a chance. He didn't know if Nagato will survive in a war torn land. He didn't know if he will unlock rinnegan. He didn't know what kind of a person he will turn out to be. He didn't know if Nagato will resurrect him when he gave his eyes to Nagato. This is the same as it's with Minato. Madara gave his eyes and knew it will go how he wanted just because. The same way Minato knew Naruto will be the savior, just because.

Well we don't know what kind of complicated plan madara could have created in all the years being alive. He probably gave the eyes to nagato then use the sharigan on some couple leaf ninjas to kill his parents. Then he had zetsu watch over him and make sure he didn't die and from there on looked for another uchiha (Obito) and brainwash him to carry the rest of the plan. So as you see there isn't a plot hole here the possibilities are infinite. Also think about it, its too much of a coincidence that Obito fell right under madaras secret cave. Seen madara beat five kages while he repeated it was futile gives me the impression he knows better than to play the dice. He wouldn't risk unless he knows the outcome.

[SuperRareTreeCat]

Did anyone else notice on Page 15 the Zetsu figure hanging from the Mazo? no left arm but had a right arm with the spiral face which also looks to be adult sized, pretty good foreshadowing there. Awesome chapter yet again.

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Madara giving Nagato his eyes. And them somehow expecting Nagato to revive him later on. When Nagato knew nothing of this. This is a plot hole. Madara didn't know Obito will show up in his hideout when he gave the eyes to Nagato.

Madara said he had given his eyes away, doesn't confirm he gave them away to Nagato. Although he probably did seeing as where this is headed but still not confirmed as to who.

Originally Posted by haegar

While Madara looks kinda cool chapter didnt impress me much. I feel the attempt at humor was as displaced in this chapter here as it was carried out badly with Obito resembling Naruto's "eh WTF" face - apart from that how this all is supposed to fit together still confuses me though I'll be willing to give that another 2 chaps or so. I do hope though this doesn't take too long.
Oh and Obito just so happens to fall into Madara's secret tunnels when the rocks fell ?!?! - oh b**** please, u kiddin? I'd have much prefered Madara was scouting Obito from early on as he suspected the kid had a special sharingan. Not so sure I like this "sudden coincidence karma of two uchiha fucked over by fate meeting in some underground rathole to plot revenge on the world" angle.... (though maybe that is just Madara giving things a spin to win over Obito, we shall see...)

We get to see Obito's clumsy comedic side, that was funny. Shows he's still himself at that point. And how Madara said that he was "Between this and the other world" in an underground passage, could be the other dimension that Obito is now stuck in also. Only really possibility i see to this is that Obito having activated his sharingan somehow was able to use the space time to the other dimension, which would explain why the rock was there considering he was probably touching it. Just a thought, although I don't thing at all that there would be an underground passage exactly where he was crushed.

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

I don't really like how Obito got to where he is. Madara's secret lair just happened to be under that battle ground? There's gotta be more to it, Madara must have saved him, but how? He's old and can't detach from that thing. His powers must be low.

I also want to know where they are. Madara didn't really explain that. This chapter 90% revealed that Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan not Tobi, but why would Tobi say he gave Nagato the rinnegan? There was no reason for him to lie to Konan since he was about to kill her anyway. There must be part of Madara inside Obito.

Now i want to know where he got his left sharingan and why not the right one too. Why would he only take 1 eye and not both.

1. Read above for first part . 2. Then Tobi(Obito) was using Madara as an alias and saying what he would say, and yeah I don't see a reason to lie either but don't think Madara is in there. 3. Page 17 Madara says he had an eye implanted afterwards but would like to have a few extras.