(L) Seiken no Blacksmith (The Sacred Blacksmith)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I know eventually Cecily will develop through this but have to say I was disapointed with her in this one. Was she working under the assumption that she'd never have to kill someone? Maybe she was, but anyways being put in that situation was bound to happen eventually. Not saying I'd be better in the same situation yet I wouldn't take up a job like a knight. Guess we'll see how Cecily will move forward from here.

People focus on her hesitation to "kill", but it's not what bothers me the most. I mean, she had no real way of knowing how she'd react, right? Then again, it wasn't exactly her first fight, so maybe she had. No, what bothers me is that she neglected her assigned task to take Aria and Lisa into a danger zone. Just because she didn't like the orders she'd been given (which were already way more honorable than she deserved to start with). Who does she think she is? That, afterward, she showed she didn't have the slightest bit of preparation to do her what she set out to do's merely the icing on the cake.

And, it's funny... From what we've heard, her sole qualification to be the one to protect Aria is that she's a woman. Does that mean that she's the most competent woman in the guard? I don't dare to imagine what the others must be like. Talk about a sexist show.

Still she had a nice start with flipping out and trying to take Luke out with that dagger.

Heh. Good point. She'll pull a dagger at him because someone implied they might be lovers, but she won't take out a murderous abomination wearing someone's corpse?

Still a nice episode for Aria. A pretty likable character and she's definitely been through a lot. Liked how she dealt with the zweihander guy. Probably not the person you want to dislike you. 40 years but finally found people that will see her as not just some tool of killing.

Yes, Aria's nice. Though I don't think the "dying in despair" is all that convincing. Isn't it kinda normal, regardless of what you think about swords? Especially for people in a line of work where they're not likely to die of old age.

[willyvereb]

To be precise Aria siad her that she should go. And she did so then with her encouragement. It was true that she was unhappy with the whole thing, but she wouldn't disobey the order. It was just that she did a favor for Aria to help the people...and perhaps Aria did a favor to Cecily.
In the end no one's at fault...or both Aria and Cecily...you shouldn't put all the blame on her.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

To be precise Aria siad her that she should go. And she did so then with her encouragement. It was true that she was unhappy with the whole thing, but she wouldn't disobey the order. It was just that she did a favor for Aria to help the people...and perhaps Aria did a favor to Cecily.
In the end no one's at fault...or both Aria and Cecily...you shouldn't put all the blame on her.

Her job was to protect Aria, not to listen to her. She had direct orders to stay put. She made the decision to disobey. It doesn't matter what Aria told her - Cecily has to be responsible for her choices.

Aria shouldn't have said what she did either, but I'm not sure what her relationship with the authorities are. Cecily, on the other hand, agreed to take orders when she signed up (unless their traditions are very, very different from any organisation I've ever heard of...). Aria and Lisa decided to follow her... and I'm not sure what to think of that - sure, they went into a dangerous place, but the alternative was to be left alone without their "protector". Not that Cecily would be of much help, as she proved, but they didn't know that at the time.

[HandofFate]

Spoiler for Episode 3 thoughts:

Still think Aria has a weird voice. Her personality seems likeable enough though.
I had a good laugh when Aria asked if Ceceila and Luke were going out, and Ceceila responds by trying to stab Luke with her dagger.
That short sword dagger looks pretty cute too..

wind sword ftw.

also I know Ceceily is a newbie, but I still hated her hesitation to kill.
I could understand if it was someone that was actually alive begging for his life, but the thing was pretty much a zombie. there's nothing else she can do.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Spoiler for Episode 3 thoughts:

Still think Aria has a weird voice. Her personality seems likeable enough though.
I had a good laugh when Aria asked if Ceceila and Luke were going out, and Ceceila responds by trying to stab Luke with her dagger.
That short sword dagger looks pretty cute too..

wind sword ftw.

also I know Ceceily is a newbie, but I still hated her hesitation to kill.
I could understand if it was someone that was actually alive begging for his life, but the thing was pretty much a zombie. there's nothing else she can do.

i'd feel worse for Not killing someone who has become a zombie. than letting him/her live because they were human. thats why I like that guy. and i hated Aria and Ceceily for sayin Swords are not just for killing. when infact they are... "I will protect this town with my sword" ... what you gonna do, swing it around and hope they change their mind? Theres no other way to defend a town with a sword than to kill the attacker. these two girls don't seem to know that yet. and if someone was to turn into a zombie, I would not hesitate to kill them for their own good.

like Android 16 said in DBZ "it is not a sin, to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach"

[miroku2192]

^What she's getting at is the whole "swords are meant to protect", not "swords are meant to kill, and only kill"...You know, the whole reoccurring message of rurouni kenshin (lawl, except kenshin had mad skillzzzzzors. I'd understand someone like Aria saying this because ever since her "memories" as a sword began, she has been used to slay, and people have slain one another to use her...in other words, she wants to live in a world far away from that).

Can't really blame aria.

[-Sho-]

As i though Cecily feared to kill someone . She was in a big shock . Yeah , its common with a level 1 . Need more XP .

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

As i though Cecily feared to kill someone . She was in a big shock . Yeah , its common with a level 1 . Need more XP .

I'd say lvl0 being able to swing and hold a sword doesn't count a level

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

^What she's getting at is the whole "swords are meant to protect", not "swords are meant to kill, and only kill"...You know, the whole reoccurring message of rurouni kenshin (lawl, except kenshin had mad skillzzzzzors. I'd understand someone like Aria saying this because ever since her "memories" as a sword began, she has been used to slay, and people have slain one another to use her...in other words, she wants to live in a world far away from that).

Can't really blame aria.

IIRC, Kenshin actually said that swords are for killing.

[HandofFate]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

IIRC, Kenshin actually said that swords are for killing.

yep. though he probably likes Ceceily's innocent definition much better.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

IIRC, Kenshin actually said that swords are for killing.

wotawotawotawot wot? Yeah i didn't really watch kenshin wayyy back, i only remember like the first two episodes of the series...and i could've swore he said swords were meant to protect (wasn't that why he had the reverse blade? He wanted to change after being the "manslayer" for sooo long?).

[cjl]

Originally Posted by Manji Midou

hmm, so luke has an agenda with god and not the devil... l wonder who/what he lost.

Actually from episode 2, they said that people who feared him called the devil a god, so Luke might still be looking for a sword that can slay god/the devil.

Also, it seems likely that he lost a sister, which would explain the store name vs. lisa's name from episode one. Both are named after the person he lost.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

wotawotawotawot wot? Yeah i didn't really watch kenshin wayyy back, i only remember like the first two episodes of the series...and i could've swore he said swords were meant to protect (wasn't that why he had the reverse blade? He wanted to change after being the "manslayer" for sooo long?).

how do you supose your gonna defend someone with a sword? by killing the person who is trying to hurt the one you're protecting. there are some people words and knocking them out once won't stop them from trying again.

some people, even if you cut their arms and legs off will still try to kill you one way or the other. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9VhD4SccSE listen to this song.


I won't fight aside or let a woman, or anyone if they hesitate to kill someone.

in a part of my FanFic W.I.P.

Kail (my oc) "I don't like it any more than you do... but if you're not ready to kill someone without hesitation to protect your friends. You should never pick up a sword..."

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

how do you supose your gonna defend someone with a sword? by killing the person who is trying to hurt the one you're protecting. there are some people words and knocking them out once won't stop them from trying again.

some people, even if you cut their arms and legs off will still try to kill you one way or the other. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9VhD4SccSE listen to this song.


I won't fight aside or let a woman, or anyone if they hesitate to kill someone.

Oh, I know it's very idealistic and for the most part, wishful thinking...but that doesn't mean you can't change the way people think. I mean, this is anime...so it works out for the most part. In real life, sure it'd be great if everyone was that rational and reasonable, but obviously that's not the case, and i can see where you wouldn't want someone beside you who would hesitate to kill someone dangerous because it could end up with that person being caught off guard and dying or even you dying as well. BUT, we need to remember that this is a work of fiction, it's an anime, and there are certain themes/character weaknesses that are, if you will, "needed" to progress the story.

I don't think an anime where the main character is flawless and just too strong will be enjoyable (it might be for a few episodes because everyone might just be screaming "DAMN THAT"S BADASS!). After a while, it just wares off and gets old.

I don't mind the "Cecily" now. IIRC, it hasn't been too long since the death of her father. 1) she hasn't really had training. 2) This is her...3rd battle? 3) That's probably the first time she has actually hurt someone.

I know for a fact though that killing someone isn't as easy as you would like to think. Sure, if you're pushed fully into a corner, you might end up killing the person, but for the most part, if you are still aware of your actions and have "other" actions to take, it's hard to kill someone. Go talk to any war veteran and you will know what i mean. A veteran once said that he could not bare to hear the sound of someone biting into an apple because that was the sound the "flesh" made when someone got shot.

My point is, it's really not that easy, and it's understandable why she might be like that.

[Kyero Fox]

If it is to survive another day. I would kill without hesitation. If it was out of no reason, it would tare me from the inside out. like how i almost killed a baby duck. I felt like major shit the rest of the week. and it was just a duck.

all I'm sayin is she should have atleast listened to Aria. the man was already dead, if she were to struck him down it would be killing the demons. and Saving the mans soul. she's acting like Rukia did when her captain got his body taken over by the hollow, she did him a favor and she still beats her self up for it. if Cecily were to kill the man and his soul could talk to her, he would prob say "Thanks"

[miroku2192]

^Yes, but the thing is, she'd still have to slash her sword THROUGH flesh. With the blood splurging out all over her face...and im sure the smell of blood didn't help either. All of that put together, it's not hard to see why she would flinch.

edit:
But honestly, we're not going to get anywhere with this. It was a nice little discussion we had here (I enjoyed it), but i think we're veering a bit off topic (in the sense that we've been talking about the same thing for the past 10+ posts), so i think we should just bring an end to this discussion. Good discussion though. It's one of the reasons i enjoy this forum over many of the others that i've dropped by over the years. Kudos to the moderators as well.

[animeboy12]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

wotawotawotawot wot? Yeah i didn't really watch kenshin wayyy back, i only remember like the first two episodes of the series...and i could've swore he said swords were meant to protect (wasn't that why he had the reverse blade? He wanted to change after being the "manslayer" for sooo long?).

Kenshin: No. A sword is a weapon. No matter what pretty names you give it, swordsmanship is the way to kill. Kaoru-dono speaks as one who has never bloodied her hands in combat. She maintains a sweet naive lie. But in the face of such awful truth, the naive lie she tells is so much better. If this one had a wish, it would be that her lie would become the truth of this world.


here you go

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by animeboy12

Kenshin: No. A sword is a weapon. No matter what pretty names you give it, swordsmanship is the way to kill. Kaoru-dono speaks as one who has never bloodied her hands in combat. She maintains a sweet naive lie. But in the face of such awful truth, the naive lie she tells is so much better. If this one had a wish, it would be that her lie would become the truth of this world.


here you go

Just Kenshin being emo. Kendo you uses a weapon and swordsmanship but no towards killing but as a sport and friendly competition. Kenshin hated the choices he made when he was younger so he had mood swings like this. He obviously in the future used his sword to protect and try to avoid killing as much as possible later. The point is obviously a sword is not only for killing. The person makes the choice on how they use it. Many fighting technique can be used to kill but there primary purpose is usually for self-protection. If you use it to kill then that's your choice and you have to deal with the consequences.

[scr]

Spoiler for eps3:

Major subversions from Heroic Fantasy trope here. The people are too human, and they have psychological barrier that prevents them from doing things typical in a Heroic Fantasy. Killing? Not everyone can do that (Cecilly). And people who can do that, struggle to not become devoured by the atrocities (The Old Captain). And of course, people aren't immune to psychological trauma of war (The Mentally Crippled Veteran).

For an even more major subversion, the sword that become sentient from bloodbath isn't some sort of bloodthirsty fiend, even if she's at the center of bad karma. She actually feel empathy for people who are knee deep in the river of blood. If only Elric of Melnibone wielded Aria...

tl;dr: Luke is mai husbando

[lightbringer]

I'm a bit disheartened that Kenshin's entire life philosophy is being distilled down to "being emo". In the first place, kendo is mostly a 20th century concept. To the people living before and during the Meiji Restoration, swordsmanship/kenjutsu was primarily about killing people.

Anyway, you can't really blame Aria; she had no clue Cecily was such a wimp. What Cecily needs right now is combat experience, like Sho put it, but things might not go so smoothly next time. For one, Luke or the other knights might not be there. Furthermore, her hesitation could cost other people their lives. The whole thing is even more complicated if Cecily will wield Aria in combat - how does that stack up against protecting Aria? Somehow, I feel that the most humane thing would be not to use her, but surely the evil powers that be will throw a curveball here which will make that impossible.