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Kojaku_Izayoi · 2012-03-29, 19:46

Even if she knows how to deal with the other Eclipse infectees, but consideringthe nature and their personalities, causing Cypha and other Hucks not much different from other villains, even with the filler villains.

I wanted to see if they can be forgiven or not in the next few chapters, even if the ways in which to severe the Hucks' head.

Justin_Brett · 2012-03-29, 23:29

Quote:

And of course Cypha is going to do better against the Grendals than everyone else. She's been living with the virus for years and is intimately familiar with it. She's probably fought plenty of other infectees before and thus knows how to handle them better than any Bureau mage.

What's to know about them other than that they regenerate their wounds and negate magic? You don't even have to worry about the second part if you don't use it. Plus any really unique abilities they have seem to be completely random.

LostSome · 2012-03-30, 13:17

Experience.
She probably fought a lot of them and understand how most of them think.
Especially new Drivers with their feeling of invunerability like the Grendels.
Staying and even splitting up when Cypha showed up was pretty arrogant of Kart for example.

I think it makes more sense than thinking that fighting Thoma is making you ready for fighting "real" drivers...
Fighting Thoma really helped those Raptors, no ?

Justin_Brett · 2012-03-30, 14:32

Well I guess she would know about arrogance, but you could see pretty quickly that the Grendels are a bunch of cocky kids just from their demeanor.

Akiyoshi · 2012-03-30, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

I think it makes more sense than thinking that fighting Thoma is making you ready for fighting "real" drivers...
Fighting Thoma really helped those Raptors, no ?

It could be a usefull experince if Tohma could fight like a true Eclipse Driver, even if the kid is using his true reacted pwoers he's fighting like a TSAB officer without an effective killing intent. And Signum already show us the price of fighting an EC Driver with such a weak mentality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Well I guess she would know about arrogance, but you could see pretty quickly that the Grendels are a bunch of cocky kids just from their demeanor.

Ironic since Cypha is a well known gloating jerk herself xDU

00-Raiser · 2012-03-30, 17:19

Also remember that Cypha has lost it: she knows she can kill. The Bureau mages still stubbornly refuse to use lethal force which is obviously stupid since infectees can regenerate any damage. Cypha (and as we saw earlier, Veyron) don't hesitate to go in for the kill. Infectees can't regrow their heads.

Fighting to capture is a lot harder than fighting to kill.

Justin_Brett · 2012-03-30, 17:27

Not any damage: they lose their heads and they die. Presumably other vital organs would have the same result if they were hit there. Plus there's a lot of benefits to actually capturing one of them besides a warm fuzzy feeling.

Did they even lose this fight because they were holding back about it? Seemed more like general incompetence.

00-Raiser · 2012-03-30, 18:15

There's certainly advanges to capturing them, but it's just not feasible. Lob off all their limbs so they can't fight back? They just regrow them. Imagine if Mobile Suits could regenerate: Kira, for all his power, would be screwed since his "cut off arms and heads" trick would be useless (which kind of happened when he fought the Impulse). Where as Shinn, who likes impaling cockpits, would have a much easier time taking out enemies.

I have no idea how the fight actually goes in the chapter but it's just not surprising that Cypha would get more accomplished. And there are plenty of reasons for this other than "Waah, the author is being a mean poopoo head!"

Kaijo · 2012-03-30, 18:21

I think we're giving those regeneration abilities far too much credit. Cypha had to touch the wound on her missing arm, and a magic circle appeared, before she could grow a new one. And everything has a limit; they become lumps of flesh due to regeneration going out of control. Overuse of the ability would seem to be a bit dangerous, then.

So, lopping off all limbs might not be a bad idea to capture them.

00-Raiser · 2012-03-30, 18:37

Even then it's no easy feat due to the toughened skin.

All it boils down to is that Cypha is willing to do what it takes to win while the Bureau isn't. It's obvious that she'd fair better in battle.

Akiyoshi · 2012-03-30, 20:35

Yup, it's hard for Signum who is someone who usually wins by "cutting people" to fight against an enemy who can essentially rendersuch win condition completely useless xDU

Also as Raiser mentioned, even if full maiming of all limbs seems as an effective way to deal with some EC Drivers the fact of their toughened bodies still remains. Laevatein received critical damage just by cutting one single limb, and judging by how badly AEC-equipement fared in battles at the moment i doubt they could pull of that either.

By the way, it seems that not every EC Driver has the same level of regeneration power. Dego can-t regrow his limb after Veyron ripped it appart and the look of his face was pure shock and fear unlike Cypha who was all "oh.. i lost a limb? i barely noticed, grow back". Seems that her regeneration capabilities are top tier among the EC Drivers which means that she can withstand a LOT of damage.

....which means it's ok to slaught her, she'll get better anyway xD!

Justin_Brett · 2012-03-30, 23:02

Quote:

All it boils down to is that Cypha is willing to do what it takes to win while the Bureau isn't. It's obvious that she'd fair better in battle.

This is the same character who purposefully wasted time fighting someone with her unsealed weapon instead of actually getting the job she came there to do done and leaving. She won, but she also did it after fooling around for no reason and making herself look foolish. I have a hard time buying her as pragmatic, or at least not proactively so.

And I dunno, if the Bureau actually made an AEC weapon designed to incapacitate someone their side would look a lot less stupid. Shame Tsuzuki didn't think of this, unless Teana's weapon is more subtle.

Akiyoshi · 2012-03-30, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

This is the same character who purposefully wasted time fighting someone with her unsealed weapon instead of actually getting the job she came there to do done and leaving. She won, but she also did it after fooling around for no reason and making herself look foolish. I have a hard time buying her as pragmatic, or at least not proactively so.

To be fair to Cypha she seems to display a more serious behavior when she talks about actually threatening oponents like other EC Drivers. Apparently she's very confident of her abilities as a swordfighter(she called herself Huckebein's No. 1 Swordswoman after all) adn when faced by Signum the only think she could see was a "knight" which is just a silly smallfry to her eyes and tought her basic abilities would be enough to deal with her. Once Signum proved to be a far better swordfighter than Cypha tought she stopped playing around and reacted to get the job done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

And I dunno, if the Bureau actually made an AEC weapon designed to incapacitate someone their side would look a lot less stupid. Shame Tsuzuki didn't think of this, unless Teana's weapon is more subtle.

Im my opinion Teana was always the more suite character to test the railgun-type AEC-Equipements. We'll need to wait a couple more days to have a clear image of her equipement. But yeah, Signum and Section Six have proven how useless is to attack the Huckebein with cutting weapons xDU Caledfwlch Techniques needs to think more on a way to disable the Hucks rather than attack them xDU

Again, it's a bit jarring that the plot still treats the AEC-units as some sort of technological marvel when it failed to accomplish any important task against EC Drivers battle after battle xDU

00-Raiser · 2012-03-31, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

To be fair to Cypha she seems to display a more serious behavior when she talks about actually threatening oponents like other EC Drivers. Apparently she's very confident of her abilities as a swordfighter(she called herself Huckebein's No. 1 Swordswoman after all) adn when faced by Signum the only think she could see was a "knight" which is just a silly smallfry to her eyes and tought her basic abilities would be enough to deal with her. Once Signum proved to be a far better swordfighter than Cypha tought she stopped playing around and reacted to get the job done.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking too.

Justin_Brett · 2012-03-31, 02:18

Then that's the same thing you're criticizing the Bureau for: letting personal sentiment override logic. It's just more blood-thirsty in this case. I wouldn't be surprised if Curren told her specifically not to fuck around in this case.

Akiyoshi · 2012-03-31, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I wouldn't be surprised if Curren told her specifically not to fuck around in this case.

Another good possibility. As you said Cypha make a fool out of herself for allowing to get trashed by an insignificant knight and risking an important mission. Curren probably didn't look at that with good eyes xDU

Another proof that Cypha was just dicking around with Signum is the fact that she always fight with her Divider-944 already reacted in all fights since that one xDU

LostSome · 2012-03-31, 10:33

One thing you are forgetting Aki is that Cypha wanted Lily to see an unison and if she just got serious right away, I don`t think Signum would have last long enough or it was just a matter of taking down Agito before...

Besides, Cypha was never going with Curren`s orders... First she took on herself to bring Thoma back to the ship and, if I`m not mistaking, her orders were to watch the fight between S6 and the Grendels.

Akiyoshi · 2012-03-31, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

One thing you are forgetting Aki is that Cypha wanted Lily to see an unison and if she just got serious right away, I don`t think Signum would have last long enough or it was just a matter of taking down Agito before...

At which point Cypha specifically stated she wanted Lily to watch an unison xD? If anything Cypha's attitude to Lily was more like "watch me kill that smallfry so you can understand there's no one who can help you". Lily in fact seemed to be surprised to witness Agito in action but that had nothing to do with Cypha's intentions, she apparently assumed her unreacted katana-like divider and her swordfight skills would be enough to trash Signum and we know the rest. Apparently it's what Cypha normally uses to fight against regular non-EC Driver opponents, lampshaded by the fact Cypha claimed to have taken the lives of the villagers with only her small dagger-like reactor implying is what she only needs to deal with defensless people.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Signum only performed unison with Agito after she properly trashed the unreacted Cypha, then the eye-patched smugger tought it could be fun to fool around a bit more and get her arm chopped before finally doing her job. I didn't see Cypha "planning" anything here aside of ridiculing Signum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

Besides, Cypha was never going with Curren`s orders... First she took on herself to bring Thoma back to the ship and, if I`m not mistaking, her orders were to watch the fight between S6 and the Grendels.

Cypha goes for Tohma after Veyron "failed" to bring him to their side so apparently she was indeed following a plan(be Curren's orders or Fortis's). About the orders of watch the Grendels she also mentione they've planning on ruinning their party and considering Veyron and Arnage where doing exactly the same a couple of chapters ago one can assume it's also part of the plan. She just play cockiness for some reason xDU

00-Raiser · 2012-03-31, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Then that's the same thing you're criticizing the Bureau for: letting personal sentiment override logic.

But she didn't stay that way for long. Once she knew "Okay, this isn't working" she switched her methods to be more effective. Whereas the Bureau are still sticking to the "Don't kill no matter what" thing even though they're suffering heavy losses.

Justin_Brett · 2012-03-31, 12:04

It's not really the whole Bureau though, just Section Six. I mean I doubt any of the people higher than them expressly said 'nah, don't kill them whatever you do, just capture them'. That would be incredibly stupid.

2012-03-30, 13:17	Link #5903
LostSome Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canada	Experience. She probably fought a lot of them and understand how most of them think. Especially new Drivers with their feeling of invunerability like the Grendels. Staying and even splitting up when Cypha showed up was pretty arrogant of Kart for example. I think it makes more sense than thinking that fighting Thoma is making you ready for fighting "real" drivers... Fighting Thoma really helped those Raptors, no ? __________________ Nyohohohoho ! It`s the law of the universe that only wizards die as virgins. You can`t let yourself die as a virgin, right ? -Old geezer.

2012-03-30, 17:19	Link #5906
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Also remember that Cypha has lost it: she knows she can kill. The Bureau mages still stubbornly refuse to use lethal force which is obviously stupid since infectees can regenerate any damage. Cypha (and as we saw earlier, Veyron) don't hesitate to go in for the kill. Infectees can't regrow their heads. Fighting to capture is a lot harder than fighting to kill. __________________

2012-03-30, 18:15	Link #5908
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	There's certainly advanges to capturing them, but it's just not feasible. Lob off all their limbs so they can't fight back? They just regrow them. Imagine if Mobile Suits could regenerate: Kira, for all his power, would be screwed since his "cut off arms and heads" trick would be useless (which kind of happened when he fought the Impulse). Where as Shinn, who likes impaling cockpits, would have a much easier time taking out enemies. I have no idea how the fight actually goes in the chapter but it's just not surprising that Cypha would get more accomplished. And there are plenty of reasons for this other than "Waah, the author is being a mean poopoo head!" __________________

2012-03-30, 18:37	Link #5910
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Even then it's no easy feat due to the toughened skin. All it boils down to is that Cypha is willing to do what it takes to win while the Bureau isn't. It's obvious that she'd fair better in battle. __________________

2012-03-30, 20:35	Link #5911
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Yup, it's hard for Signum who is someone who usually wins by "cutting people" to fight against an enemy who can essentially rendersuch win condition completely useless xDU Also as Raiser mentioned, even if full maiming of all limbs seems as an effective way to deal with some EC Drivers the fact of their toughened bodies still remains. Laevatein received critical damage just by cutting one single limb, and judging by how badly AEC-equipement fared in battles at the moment i doubt they could pull of that either. By the way, it seems that not every EC Driver has the same level of regeneration power. Dego can-t regrow his limb after Veyron ripped it appart and the look of his face was pure shock and fear unlike Cypha who was all "oh.. i lost a limb? i barely noticed, grow back". Seems that her regeneration capabilities are top tier among the EC Drivers which means that she can withstand a LOT of damage. ....which means it's ok to slaught her, she'll get better anyway xD! __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-03-29, 19:46	Link #5901
Kojaku_Izayoi Rookie Time Master Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	Even if she knows how to deal with the other Eclipse infectees, but consideringthe nature and their personalities, causing Cypha and other Hucks not much different from other villains, even with the filler villains. I wanted to see if they can be forgiven or not in the next few chapters, even if the ways in which to severe the Hucks' head.

2012-03-30, 14:32	Link #5904
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Well I guess she would know about arrogance, but you could see pretty quickly that the Grendels are a bunch of cocky kids just from their demeanor.

2012-03-30, 17:27	Link #5907
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Not any damage: they lose their heads and they die. Presumably other vital organs would have the same result if they were hit there. Plus there's a lot of benefits to actually capturing one of them besides a warm fuzzy feeling. Did they even lose this fight because they were holding back about it? Seemed more like general incompetence.

2012-03-30, 18:21	Link #5909
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	I think we're giving those regeneration abilities far too much credit. Cypha had to touch the wound on her missing arm, and a magic circle appeared, before she could grow a new one. And everything has a limit; they become lumps of flesh due to regeneration going out of control. Overuse of the ability would seem to be a bit dangerous, then. So, lopping off all limbs might not be a bad idea to capture them.

2012-03-31, 02:18	Link #5915
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Then that's the same thing you're criticizing the Bureau for: letting personal sentiment override logic. It's just more blood-thirsty in this case. I wouldn't be surprised if Curren told her specifically not to fuck around in this case. Last edited by Justin_Brett; 2012-03-31 at 02:32.

2012-03-31, 10:33	Link #5917
LostSome Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canada	One thing you are forgetting Aki is that Cypha wanted Lily to see an unison and if she just got serious right away, I don`t think Signum would have last long enough or it was just a matter of taking down Agito before... Besides, Cypha was never going with Curren`s orders... First she took on herself to bring Thoma back to the ship and, if I`m not mistaking, her orders were to watch the fight between S6 and the Grendels. __________________ Nyohohohoho ! It`s the law of the universe that only wizards die as virgins. You can`t let yourself die as a virgin, right ? -Old geezer.

2012-03-31, 12:04	Link #5920
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	It's not really the whole Bureau though, just Section Six. I mean I doubt any of the people higher than them expressly said 'nah, don't kill them whatever you do, just capture them'. That would be incredibly stupid.