Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[Richocet]

Thnx for the detailed explanation, tht helped explain what exactly the problem was with him using magic

[Kleeyook]

I'd prefer Mahouka over TAMNI. Mahouka has a lot of confusing fictional technical terms, some useless ones, but at least they sound right. And those terms will be used throughout the whole novel.

TAMNI, I really hate its term of magic. They're all useless stuffs we have to read to understand what nonsense magical power is being used as well as its fictional history. There seem to exist only Christian and Norse magic too. I can't even imagine how Touma could have survived all the crap he has been in. And mages just started training their body recently to counter Touma despite the fact that even if they use magic, they still need a very fit and tough body to fight. Also, they could have used guns...

Esper users are even more complicated. Railgun is too heavily underpower, the real thing should easily kill (vaporize) a person (or a bunch of people) if used, yet she used it quite frequently against people (especially the MC, but that's exception). I guess the author now has to rethink about what should he explain about Railgun now that the US military finally succeeded making it, and they're too overpower it scares me.

Still, the activation time of magic and how fast they can input codes on CAD in Mahouka is kind of superhuman already. Seriously, doing all that in milliseconds? I'd believe that if all they do is clicking a single button.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

I'd prefer Mahouka over TAMNI. Mahouka has a lot of confusing fictional technical terms, some useless ones, but at least they sound right. And those terms will be used throughout the whole novel.

TAMNI, I really hate its term of magic. They're all useless stuffs we have to read to understand what nonsense magical power is being used as well as its fictional history. There seem to exist only Christian and Norse magic too. I can't even imagine how Touma could have survived all the crap he has been in. And mages just started training their body recently to counter Touma despite the fact that even if they use magic, they still need a very fit and tough body to fight. Also, they could have used guns...

Esper users are even more complicated. Railgun is too heavily underpower, the real thing should easily kill (vaporize) a person (or a bunch of people) if used, yet she used it quite frequently against people (especially the MC, but that's exception). I guess the author now has to rethink about what should he explain about Railgun now that the US military finally succeeded making it, and they're too overpower it scares me.

Still, the activation time of magic and how fast they can input codes on CAD in Mahouka is kind of superhuman already. Seriously, doing all that in milliseconds? I'd believe that if all they do is clicking a single button.

Spoiler for TAMNI stuff which doesn't really belong, but I'm spoiling it because I'm responding to the above message!:

They also used some of the British/French as well as some Mexican history as well and probably some other things which I can't remember at the moment; there's just a focus on christianity and nordic mythology since those two happen to be some of the more well known mythologies available, though on that point, I'm surprised there isn't more Grecian/Roman based systems. As for Railgun being underpowered, I think that's mainly because her strength lies in her other abilities, she was just named that because it's her most openly destructive attack. Her railgun attack itself is also limited due to the fact that her coins melt from the resistance created, but yeah, I understand your point in it being oddly non-lethal in the series.

Regarding the cast time, I don't think it's actually a straight out manual input like you would put in a keyboard, so much as it is a process to alter the formula, like maybe running the Psions through the CAD in a certain way depending on the location or size of the target. In that case, it would be more a matter of "feel" (i.e. the target is 5 meters away, so I'll put this amount of Psions in) for how to input the data than an actual typing of data (i.e. the target is 5 meters away, so I'll press 5). I can't say I'd find it remotely believable (within the realm of the story, that is) that they'd take all that information and type it all into a keyboard.

[Kleeyook]

I find it too unbelievable if whenever they input formula for the magic, they need to do calculation within split second. I suppose the explanation about how they do this isn't clear. I don't think that the elite mathematicians could do something like that. It's just too much...

Unless they train inputting data like how South Korean Starcraft players do things. Pros can get to 300 APM (action per minute) which means they do 5 different actions in a second in game...

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

I find it too unbelievable if whenever they input formula for the magic, they need to do calculation within split second. I suppose the explanation about how they do this isn't clear. I don't think that the elite mathematicians could do something like that. It's just too much...

Unless they train inputting data like how South Korean Starcraft players do things. Pros can get to 300 APM (action per minute) which means they do 5 different actions in a second in game...

I think the calculation itself is handled by the CAD. Speeding up the cast time has to do with their ability to run the CAD properly. Well, maybe someone else has a better explanation.

[aigomorla]

Originally Posted by EnigmaticAxiom

I think the calculation itself is handled by the CAD. Speeding up the cast time has to do with their ability to run the CAD properly. Well, maybe someone else has a better explanation.

lesson 1.... when the author uses the word "magic"
there is no logical explanation to it, hence why its called magic.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Originally Posted by aigomorla

lesson 1.... when the author uses the word "magic"
there is no logical explanation to it, hence why its called magic.

Good point, though the reason this novel is supposedly so annoying to translate is because the author keeps going into absurdly long explanations. It would probably work best if it didn't have an explanation, though.

[Richocet]

^Yeah I remember larethian mentioning something about the really long and lengthy details the author uses...well good luck to you ppl

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

I'd prefer Mahouka over TAMNI. Mahouka has a lot of confusing fictional technical terms, some useless ones, but at least they sound right. And those terms will be used throughout the whole novel.

TAMNI, I really hate its term of magic. They're all useless stuffs we have to read to understand what nonsense magical power is being used as well as its fictional history. There seem to exist only Christian and Norse magic too. I can't even imagine how Touma could have survived all the crap he has been in. And mages just started training their body recently to counter Touma despite the fact that even if they use magic, they still need a very fit and tough body to fight. Also, they could have used guns...

Esper users are even more complicated. Railgun is too heavily underpower, the real thing should easily kill (vaporize) a person (or a bunch of people) if used, yet she used it quite frequently against people (especially the MC, but that's exception). I guess the author now has to rethink about what should he explain about Railgun now that the US military finally succeeded making it, and they're too overpower it scares me.

Still, the activation time of magic and how fast they can input codes on CAD in Mahouka is kind of superhuman already. Seriously, doing all that in milliseconds? I'd believe that if all they do is clicking a single button.

sigh, Magic in tamni are based on fables or story from which you probably heard or knew making it easier to understand on how he magic works and how it will work and a set rule on how it can only work.

while for science side. The terms used can be actually google and believable because it's based in real science. And as for Mikoto's railgun. Its actually stronger than what it should be. Because Mikoto is just using a game token. The weight or mass of the token can't make a 2 meter crater as an after effect of it. It's over kill a good computation was presented using real math that a higher caliber gun would be even better than her so called railgun.

And lastly. A magician is a magician because it uses magic.

Look at mahouka. The so called bloom and weed system that result in stupid discrimination. The bloom had pride because they are better than weed. Their magic is far superior than them. But well Tatsuya was an all rounder and good at close combat so making a fight with him while your casting a spell is stupid too.

And if you compare it too the magicians in tamni which is proud of their magic then why would they use other means? specially they are fighting an "ordinary high school student" Touma just become famous bit by bit and become a world figure after the war so the enemy is trying to counter him.

And yes even if they hate using guns because they are magicians and nut ruffians. they ended up using guns. A big hitter and rapid guns against him.

In an analogy of a master of sword. you had pride of your mastery and techniques so can a master of sword lower his pride to use a cheap way like gun to win?



I'm not sure who mentioned this but someone mentioned that the author creates 1 to 2 page of explanation about the magic but the one he hates the most is when a 1 to 2 of explanation was just a fact a useless explanation because at the end their is a "BUT that is not the one they use" then proceed to another 1 to 2 page of explanation.

[Kleeyook]

Yeah, the explanation about magic in Mahouka is too long. The 16 basic code theory ends up being false too. And the activation time for magic for some people is just plain ridiculous. Less than 1/10 second is too inhuman! DO they live in The Matrix World?

As for Railgun. I believe it shows that she shoots coin to divide the school swimming pool that is very large at ease. Not even a high speed cannon can do something as crazy as that. Also, I kind of don't understand why she never used something bigger than coin against extremely powerful opponent like Accelerator.

[AlaAlba]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I'm not sure who mentioned this but someone mentioned that the author creates 1 to 2 page of explanation about the magic but the one he hates the most is when a 1 to 2 of explanation was just a fact a useless explanation because at the end their is a "BUT that is not the one they use" then proceed to another 1 to 2 page of explanation.

By author do you mean about tamni or mahouka? Myself, I like mahouka better because the characters don't do a blabbering sh!t in the middle of the fight, I prefer explanation from the author than some blabbering characters. I even feel really bored when I read tamni I feel like throw it away and stop, not so when I read mahouka, I even reread it a few times.

[tsunade666]

Mahouka.

The explanation in Tamni isn't that long that's why Teh_ping and Js06 are doing it.

A plan to translate Horizon was made before but since it's tooooo darn long which what reminds me more when I saw Mahouka. With it's super detailed explanation. The fast translators of BT. Said that Teh_pin needs a 1000 while Js06 needs 3 dedicated translator to even take horizon.

Tatsuya would hit you hard if you start chatting in front of him. Reminds me of a certain born killer. If you have time to chat then you have time to kill.

By comparison. I would compare Mahouka to Horizon than Tamni because it's different in the way it's being told. Tamni is based in real life fiction while Mahouka's author creates his own world like in Horizon.

EDIT:

Further talk on tamni should be put on index thread but to answer last question why Mikoto used coins. Well the coins are provided by the campus for her experiment or for her test plus it's easy to acquire and small and weightless. You don't expect a middle school girl carrying around real live rounds or hard hitting ammunition. Plus Mikoto is kind at heart that she won't kill or hurt others. Thus use the game token which even if thrown at you won't hurt at all though if used as a railgun bullet then IT WILL HURT. Mikoto also doesn't target it against living human. She usually targets the surrounding and let the shock wave of the attack. Know the attackers or enemy. Getting hit by that will vaporized you completely. She controls her strength tremendously to not kill.
As for her maximum load. In railgun anime. The maximum chunck of metal she can used as a bullet is around the size of a human... though not sure. I din't like much railgun anime so I only watch it once. But that alone is enough to make a big beam stream similar to divine buster. Which reminds me before when I saw it. It's like a copy paste scenario of Nanoha.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by AlaAlba

By author do you mean about tamni or mahouka? Myself, I like mahouka better because the characters don't do a blabbering sh!t in the middle of the fight, I prefer explanation from the author than some blabbering characters. I even feel really bored when I read tamni I feel like throw it away and stop, not so when I read mahouka, I even reread it a few times.

Not sure for you, but for me, I have NO choice but to reread it a few times since I can't get it in just one reading.
Moreover, when they touch and expand on a topic in future, I frequently have to go back to the first time when a topic (wrt mechanics) was started since I've already forgotten quite a bit. I saw on 2ch that the native readers also have the same problem.

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Mahouka.

The explanation in Tamni isn't that long that's why Teh_ping and Js06 are doing it.

A plan to translate Horizon was made before but since it's tooooo darn long which what reminds me more when I saw Mahouka. With it's super detailed explanation. The fast translators of BT. Said that Teh_pin needs a 1000 while Js06 needs 3 dedicated translator to even take horizon.

Tatsuya would hit you hard if you start chatting in front of him. Reminds me of a certain born killer. If you have time to chat then you have time to kill.

By comparison. I would compare Mahouka to Horizon than Tamni because it's different in the way it's being told. Tamni is based in real life fiction while Mahouka's author creates his own world like in Horizon.

I found Horizon to be rather annoying though (their dialogue).

The blabbing crap during the fight in TAMNI as well as their most retard ever reason to fight makes me wanna throw it away too. What the hell is with Maria's pride, Kagun's hard to understand revenge, Vento's reason for hating science, Fiamma's method to "save" the world etc.

I also hate loli, there are too many of them, and the main objective of the protagonists in this series is to protect the lolis (Index, Last Order etc.). And crap, powerful mages are also lolis!?

[AlaAlba]

@tsunade: Well, I see both as similar. Because I see mahouka as a real life fiction BUT happens not so distant in the future.

btw you don't post that general spoilers from EnigmaticAxiom here? it's a good idea I must say

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

I found Horizon to be rather annoying though (their dialogue).

The blabbing crap during the fight in TAMNI as well as their most retard ever reason to fight makes me wanna throw it away too. What the hell is with Maria's pride, Kagun's hard to understand revenge, Vento's reason for hating science, Fiamma's method to "save" the world etc.

I also hate loli, there are too many of them, and the main objective of the protagonists in this series is to protect the lolis (Index, Last Order etc.). And crap, powerful mages are also lolis!?

a BIG LOL, hey we could be a nice friends here, I also don't like such shounen-ish reasons and I want to see the MC kill all in front of him not preaching them

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by AlaAlba

@tsunade: Well, I see both as similar. Because I see mahouka as a real life fiction BUT happens not so distant in the future.

btw you don't post that general spoilers from EnigmaticAxiom here? it's a good idea I must say

Well, it's not gonna be real life fiction if psion and pushion don't exist.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Originally Posted by AlaAlba

@tsunade: Well, I see both as similar. Because I see mahouka as a real life fiction BUT happens not so distant in the future.

btw you don't post that general spoilers from EnigmaticAxiom here? it's a good idea I must say

It was posted by someone earlier, I think. I'm too lazy to update the thing twice, so I won't bother posting the actual spoilers here, but I'll post the download link for the pdf file with the same information (I copy-pasta from it)

hxxp://www.mediafire.com/?78w3nq72fbic6lw

For some reason, using a redirect service is giving me problems on my computer, and I'm not sure if it's working for anyone else, so I'll post the link like that unless someone tells me its against the rules. I don't think it is, but I've been wrong plenty of times before.

[Makall]

Originally Posted by EnigmaticAxiom

I'm not sure how much of this would really constitute a spoiler since most people reading this will already know the spoilers, but I'll do it anyway.

Spoiler for MAGICKZ!:

I think of it in terms of mathematics. For any magician, casting a spell is like working through the multiplication table (1x1, 1x2... 9x9...).

When Tatsuya was young, he couldn't use magic other than the things he was specialized, akin to not knowing the table at all.

When he had the chip implanted, you could say it was like he automatically knew the answer to say up to his 4 multiplicatives. While other magic technicians had to say everything from 1x1 up to 4x9 to find the answer (activate the spell), he just had to say the answer. This accounts for why he can immediately cast simple spells.

For more complex spells, though, you could say everything works against him. The other students had the multiplication table in their head and could work up as they usually do, or they could use the calculator (CAD) to find the answer. For him, though, he had to do the calculations by hand, which takes a lot longer.

It's a geeky comparison, but maybe that will help people understand it better.

So you're saying this guy is too smart to actually use magic?

[whsie]

Originally Posted by Makall

So you're saying this guy is too smart to actually use magic?

Spoiler for no...:

He has a magic processor that instantly lets him use any magic that requires 5 or less steps. That said, he can't do that in the practical. He has to look at how the magic was calculated, go calculate it, then let the magic happen. Normaly students just calculate and let the magic happen. Tatsuya has an extra step to see what numbers combined together would get the end result that is already in his head. To do it the "school way" requires a long-round about way hence why he scored so poorly on the speed portion of the test. It's like the teacher wants you to show your work even if you instantly somehow have this calculator implanted in your head that does it for you.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

What whsie said, yeah!

I guess I would have to say when using typical magic, he's actually a lot slower than anyone (i.e. worse at the math), but up to his 4x9, he's got a piece of paper that has the answer on it already, so he has no need to think it through.