[manga] Sasuke Surpassing Orochimaru?

[Kotengu]

Why is everyone treating speculation like fact. It ruins the creative process and confuses people. We have to take everything in the manga at face value, then SPECULATE on what it means.

Example: 1st and 2nd hokage taught 3rd, and he took all of them on including oro in a fight. And died.
Coming in second place is still losing. Therefore face value would be that oro was stronger cuz he won.
The speculation would be that oro would have lost if he didn't use the other kage to help him.

NOW that you have a proper example of how speculation works please use it correctly instead of stating it like fact.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Evidence that Orochimaru was afraid.

He only was pissed and left... back then he would have fought Yondaime and Sandaime. A bit too heavy I think

The Sannin knows this jutsu [Rasengan] well, and Orochimaru was scared.

I never thought this kid has so potential... that were his words.

The monk, one of the great 12 ninja, who was a dangerous ninja...

Akatsuki killed him as if he was nothing.

The Nibi Girl, who was feared for her legendary bijuu power, that would kill you if you let your guard down.

Akatsuki defeated the girl easily.

Gaara, the lord of the desert who swallows all, the most feared sand ninja.

An Akatsuki defeated him quickly.

and so on...

I don't see the reference...

And again you overread my other post^^

@Kotengu: The only one taking his opinion for granted is YF. No one else and I think everyone on this forum would agree.

[MobiuS]

Before we divert offtopic, we have only suceeded in raising one point Sasuke has over Orochimaru. The sharigan.

Is there anything else?

[Ddadain]

Youth? [He's young]
A stronger will? [He has a greater will because his purpose is only one thing]
Love? [Even though he doesn't want it, He's still loved by his friends]

Hrm... What else?

Health [He's not rotting like Oro is]
Good Looks [Har har]

What else? ^^" Can't think of any anymore...

Besides that, the Sharingan is a HUGE advantage.

Oro vs 4-tailed Naruto = Winner 4-tailed Naruto
Sasuke vs 4,5,6,7,8,9-tailed Naruto = Sasuke [Not quite sure yet... possible But not likely]

[Lotiman]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Before we divert offtopic, we have only suceeded in raising one point Sasuke has over Orochimaru. The sharigan.

Is there anything else?

Sasuke is much much handsome and sexier than Oro. And got 2 admirers Sakura and Ino.

[MobiuS]

THIS IS NOT A FANBOY THREAD!

Looks = garbage.

Youth doesnt count since Orochimaru can always get a younger body.

[Wolcik]

Oro is young but he can't fight as long as he could when he had his body in this age :P
Sharigan might be awsome, but if he still is below Oro than it no use for Kyuubi

[xTwilightx]

the easiest way to prove that Orochimaru must still be stronger than sasuke is that sasuke went to orochimaru seeking power.
If he felt that orochimaru was now weaker than him, he wouldnt follow him, plain and simple.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by xTwilightx

the easiest way to prove that Orochimaru must still be stronger than sasuke is that sasuke went to orochimaru seeking power.
If he felt that orochimaru was now weaker than him, he wouldnt follow him, plain and simple.

Cold hard sweet Logic.

Orochimaru > Sasuke.

Sorry Rave -_-*

[FireDetei]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Evidence that Orochimaru was afraid.

If Oro had gone back Asap after Yondaime had died, and attacked Kohona then yes I would have to say that basicly the only reason for him not coming back was because of Yondaime, but alas, that is not the case. He finally arrived some 10ish years after Yondaime had perished........ so saying that it is evidence that oro was affraid cannot be said.

Running away from the village, he basicly washed his hands with it, and it was little concern to him. He had no reason to go to Kohona, unless for revenge, but he doesn't seem that way inclinde. Oro seems to only do something if it will benefit him, like the chance to obtain Sharingan powers. That was the only reason he came back, to get Sasuke.

[Rachy]

the easiest way to prove that Orochimaru must still be stronger than sasuke is that sasuke went to orochimaru seeking power.
If he felt that orochimaru was now weaker than him, he wouldnt follow him, plain and simple.

Sasuke isn't fully aware of his new great power.

Orochimaru compared Sasuke to the 3 tails, and Sasuke was still much better and Orochimaru was weaker than the 4 tails.

Sasuke will leave Orochimaru and Kabuto alive because they have Kinjutsu and medical drugs that make Sasuke stronger and stronger; Killing them isn't even worth his effort.

plus it increases his chance of killing Itachi even by 1% as Kabuto put it about team Kakashi.

Cold hard sweet Logic.

Orochimaru > Sasuke.

Sorry Rave -_-*

Nope sorry Mobi it aint ^_^, Orochimaru can just keep dreaming about getting Sasuke's body that snakey freak.

[Jehuty]

as far as I'm concerned, the only reason sasuke can talk to orochimaru the way he does is because he -knows- orochimaru needs him so he can be the new container.

not because he feels that sasuke is on par, or even above, orochimaru.

also, sasuke still seeks orochimaru for training - meaning that there is still much to be learned. in other words, he is still merely the student that has not surpassed the master.

but that's just my opinion =x

[Wolcik]

the reason why Orochimaru said to Naruto that 3tail isn't as strong as Sasuke in my opinion was to provoke Naruto
Naruto went 4tail almost after this words, so we don't know how well he would do in 3tail form XD

Sasuke can't be stronger than Orochimaru, cause he still didn't kill him :P (he's following Gaara's logic now, killing for ur own sake makes u stronger, cause he's avanger)

[Rachy]

Sasuke can't be stronger than Orochimaru, cause he still didn't kill him :P (he's following Gaara's logic now, killing for ur own sake makes u stronger, cause he's avanger)

Yus he can, he said he doesn't care what happens to him or the rest of the world, he only wants to kill Itachi that's all. Killing someone who is helping him achieve his goal isn't in his interests.

the reason why Orochimaru said to Naruto that 3tail isn't as strong as Sasuke in my opinion was to provoke Naruto
Naruto went 4tail almost after this words, so we don't know how well he would do in 3tail form XD

Naruto was getting madder and madder everytime Orochimaru spoke, it was a statement in the manga as well as a taunt, but basically he could of said " Kukuku Naruto you are so pathetic, Sasuke is with me now" and Naruto would of went all blahh kyuubi anyway.

also, sasuke still seeks orochimaru for training - meaning that there is still much to be learned. in other words, he is still merely the student that has not surpassed the master.

Orochimaru knows lotsa sneaky forbidden techniques, with Orochimaru dead Sasuke couldn't learn them, so it wouldn't make sense to kill him anyway.

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by uchiha rave

Yus he can, he said he doesn't care what happens to him or the rest of the world, he only wants to kill Itachi that's all. Killing someone who is helping him achieve his goal isn't in his interests.

I know that, but there is one serious matter that Orohimaru pointed out after losing his arms...
he couldn't obtain Itachi's body as he was stronger than him, but than u can say that Sasuke is willing ot give his body away, but if he was stronger than Orochimaru this wouldn't have any sense :P

Naruto was getting madder and madder everytime Orochimaru spoke, it was a statement in the manga as well as a taunt, but basically he could of said " Kukuku Naruto you are so pathetic, Sasuke is with me now" and Naruto would of went all blahh kyuubi anyway.

but Orochimaru said at the begining "let's see how's got better, u or Sasuke" so he was just following the topic that's what smart people do durring conversation XD

Orochimaru knows lotsa sneaky forbidden techniques, with Orochimaru dead Sasuke couldn't learn them, so it wouldn't make sense to kill him anyway.

so u're saying that in world where knowladge of special jutsus is one of main strenght, Sasuke is still stronger when he knows only few ones, and Orochimaru is genius with that?

[MobiuS]

Rave the scaleup between 3 and 4 Tails is beyond what a pathatic body Chidori can handle. 3 of Orochimaru's ultimate defense (noted for only taking a slight bump with a full raging Kiba+Akamaru morph crashed into it full velocity) was easily smashed by 1 attack.

Sorry dear but, Sasuke is outmuscled so far out by 4 tails that I doubt the Sharingan would even make a difference.

[Rachy]

I know that, but there is one serious matter that Orohimaru pointed out after losing his arms...
he couldn't obtain Itachi's body as he was stronger than him, but than u can say that Sasuke is willing ot give his body away, but if he was stronger than Orochimaru this wouldn't have any sense :P

But Sasuke doesn't care about his body after he kills Itachi, Orochimaru can have it for all he cares. Itachi cares about living.

but Orochimaru said at the begining "let's see how's got better, u or Sasuke" so he was just following the topic that's what smart people do durring conversation XD

Yus, but there's a reason why a statement was made, that's to give us an idea of Sasuke's power it isn't a lie; it's there to taunt and to let us know.

so u're saying that in world where knowladge of special jutsus is one of main strenght, Sasuke is still stronger when he knows only few ones, and Orochimaru is genius with that?

We don't know how many he knows, but he won't learn anymore by killing Orochimaru now, will he?

Sorry dear but, Sasuke is outmuscled so far out by 4 tails that I doubt the Sharingan would even make a difference.

Yus the 4 tails out muscles Orochimaru and Sasuke. But Sasuke never has to fight the 4 tails and is stronger than the 3 tails. The 4 tails broke Orochimaru's ultimate defences easily just like Sasuke would, duh ^^.

But in the fight everytime Orochimaru used a handseal Sasuke could copy it O.o, no Kusanagi advantage for Orochimaru cos Sasuke has one too and Sasuke is better.

[MobiuS]

Orochimaru isnt retarded. Gai eventually developed a technique to counter Sharingan. Haku did as well. Orochimaru has now experienced the Sharingan repeatedly and Im sure he has some preventive measure to stop it.

[Rachy]

Orochimaru has now experienced the Sharingan repeatedly and Im sure he has some preventive measure to stop it.

Is that why he's still dreaming of Itachi's body?

[MobiuS]

Preventive measures does not mean you do not want the tool.

- Just because you are wearing a bullet-proof vest doesnt mean you wouldnt want a gun to shoot the opponent.

- Going to war with a shield does not mean you dont need a sword to stab the opponent as well.

Spoiler for PG-13 Example:

Owning a condom doesnt mean you dont want to have sex anymore. PG-13 example but I hope it expresses my point quite vividly.