Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Sheryl Nome

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by ani_d

What is so ridiculous about seeing Alto's lack of enthusiasm in that screenshot? That was what his face looked like for 3 long seconds, didn't it? That's a fact, isn't it? From a surprised expression to a bland one. Unless there was a bubble on top of Alto saying "this girl CAN kiss", that scene can also be interpreted the other way. That's how I see it everytime I rewatched that scene. There were no spark. At all.

The second screenshot with Ranka, there's an indication that Alto took it personally if you look at how those flickers formed in his eyes. Tsk tsk...

Sweets, you missed my entire point. There's a reason why I quoted your nine-year-old cousin argument and nothing else.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by crisis

Sweets, you missed my entire point. There's a reason why I quoted your nine-year-old cousin argument and nothing else.

Oh gosh, leave my nine year old cousin alone -_- lol! More so than a 9 year old judging Alto's reaction, I'm merely pointing out that it's evident that Alto's reaction just looked bland in that scene. If we saw the same thing, then I'm pretty sure we both saw Alto go like this---> "=/"

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by ani_d

FYI. I wasn't "BS-ing" when I said I couldn't find any fault in OD's analysis of Alto. Sure, she was a bit off here with Sheryl but I'd rather not jump on the bandwagon since I don't think there's a need to defend Sheryl in this thread anymore. Besides, it's not like we always get to see what's going on in Sheryl's head, I'm looking at you episode 11, so while there's a high chance that Sheryl really isn't like this (I think so too), the probability that Sheryl has a dark side is not absolutely zero now, is it? ^_^ I'm open to any twist in her character.



I asked my 9 year old little cousin what she thinks of Alto in this picture and guess what she said? She said: "She (Alto) looks disgusted..." lol While I don't think "disgusted" was the right word, I do see this reaction of his as lacking. Check out that downward curve of his mouth. He doesn't seem impressed to me. You can show this picture to random non-anime fan people and see if they can notice the lack of enthusiasm in Alto's face.

Compare that, to this...

Spoiler for This is Alto's "I'm-surprised-and-I'm-taking-it-seriously-face":

It makes a whole lot of difference. Anyway, despite that, I do have a feeling that Sheryl's big "counter-attack" will be her love confession to Alto. Let's see if it actually works.

what an absolutely appaling reply, i'm surprised you didn't get the opinion of the family cat or dog on alto's reaction. i wouldn't say his reaction was lacking due to the reasons you think, like i said he as on guard since he was wary due to sheryl's past actions. Anyone watching the new summer anime "Yakushiji Ryoko no Kaiki Jikenbo"? ryoko and izumedia kinda have a similar relationship to Alto and sheryl, where one girl is interested but the guy thinks shes messing with him.

Anyway this wasn't some elementary school level reaction like he's had with ranka, he was taking it serious or did you somhow turn off your hearing to what the va said? that bleachod tought his lack of an initial blush was a bad sign for sheryl i found rather hilarious...

@ teletha

i agree ani-ds better than this.

[Teletha]

I think what crisis is saying is you are grasping at straws and you have the ability to give a better argument then the silly one you are giving now. There is no need to be condescending and implying that if even a child can see it, why can't you? By looking at the picture of animation you can't tell what the scene was actually try to convey. And even if it your cousin did watch it and totally agreed with you, it doesn't mean anything more then you having someone who agrees with you and that you and your cousin share the same Ranka loving blood.

The nit picking arguments about who blushes more, laughs louder, has more ~eye flickering~ , or what our 9 year old cousins think is just frankly too stupid to even argue about. I mean, we could post lots of screenshots of Alto looking disinterested and interested, blushing and not blushing at both Sheryl and Ranka if you want to go down that path. Then we could count them and see who the winner is! Now I fear someone might do that.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Oh gosh, leave my nine year old cousin alone -_- lol! More so than a 9 year old judging Alto's reaction, I'm merely pointing out that it's evident that Alto's reaction just looked bland in that scene. If we saw the same thing, then I'm pretty sure we both saw Alto go like this---> "=/"

Clearly though, you asked your 9 year old cousin who probably has no clue what Macross is, a question that goes deeper than a normal 9 year olds understanding of situations and kisses. That and you go as far as to quote them and use it as a buffering point to further your argument of the different Alto faces... all while clearly disregarding scene context and the relationships between characters.

You my friend are nearing OD in terms of "air balling an uncontested dunk 2 feet from the rim."

--

I'll see you guys in a month.

For Sheryl!

[Tak]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

Clearly though, you asked your 9 year old cousin who probably has no clue what Macross is, a question that goes deeper than a normal 9 year olds understanding of situations and kisses. That and you go as far as to quote them and use it as a buffering point to further your argument of the different Alto faces... all while clearly disregarding scene context and the relationships between characters.

You my friend are nearing OD in terms of "air balling an uncontested dunk 2 feet from the rim."

Bah, after a host of hahahaha, hehehehe, hohohoho, I think I am pretty ready for anything ani_d dishes out, even if they may be the stupidest, most juvenile thing in the world.

- Tak

[herbert]

Originally Posted by ani_d

I'm open to any twist in her character.

I'm open to any twist in your perspective on Sheryl.

Originally Posted by ani_d

I asked my 9 year old little cousin what she thinks of Alto in this picture and guess what she said? She said: "She (Alto) looks disgusted..." lol While I don't think "disgusted" was the right word, I do see this reaction of his as lacking. Check out that downward curve of his mouth. He doesn't seem impressed to me. You can show this picture to random non-anime fan people and see if they can notice the lack of enthusiasm in Alto's face.

Though I'm with people that it's no good to raise your cousin's comment to support your opinion, I think your cousin got a better idea than yours out of the scene. Just I'd call it distaste instead of disgust. On the top of confusion, he not enjoys the fact Sheryl breaks his offishness and proves that the merely-a-kiss does matter to him.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Trying to figure out what she's thinking is more likely, but "looking at her deeply"? lol

Trying to figure out what she's thinking does not absolutely indicate that the kiss had a personal positive effect on Alto. It can go either way. Am I wrong?

What makes it so absolute that just because Alto thinks Sheryl likes to mess with him, he would absolutely succumb to her if Sheryl starts getting serious? =/ Especially the Alto right now in the story. Please don't tell me it's because Westlo's super pro sheryl ending analysis said so.

Wha... Huh? Where did I say anything about a positive or negative affect? All I said was, that Alto was trying to figure out what Sheryl was thinking. He clearly doesn't understand her actions or what she's thinking, and is left once again, stunned. The guy's clueless to anything to do with relationships, love, romance, etc etc etc. (Michael has mentioned this). I didn't say he'd succumb to her if she was serious. I just said he was trying to figure her out.

ani_d I wonder if you're not hallucinating as you're reading things that aren't there from us.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by ani_d

My point is, if a 9 year old kid can pick up Alto's lack of enthusiasm in that scene, then what more for the rest of the grown ups? It's cool if you see this expression of his as surprised and a personal one since you're entitled to your own opinion. I'm just saying I don't see it.

Maybe because nine year olds are not exactly the most perceptive people when it comes to a mature relationship and its nuances? Geez. Could as well shown the picture to a toddler and judged its merit by the way the baby waves its arms.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Oh gosh, leave my nine year old cousin alone -_- lol! More so than a 9 year old judging Alto's reaction, I'm merely pointing out that it's evident that Alto's reaction just looked bland in that scene. If we saw the same thing, then I'm pretty sure we both saw Alto go like this---> "=/"

You brought him up, not us.

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Speaking of, I love reading your posts too, as I tend to agree on them just about 100%.

Just wait until we disagree on something. But thanks for the compliment.

*edit* Well, damned, I wanted to edit my last post. Sorry for the double post.

[ani_d]

Before we get too ahead of ourselves, I'm merely replying on this assumption.

Originally Posted by Westlo

I think he treated her kiss seriously in episode 10 but at the same time was wary because of how he thought she treated him... and when she laughed it off well it just confirmed it for him. Their relationship is kinda like the one you see in a lot of romance shows where the lead has an older childhood friend who messes with him a lot so he never takes her seriously.. except Alto and Sheryl are obviously not childhood friends. (please don't make that a twist Kawamori!) but their interactions from 1-12 of the series do build a platform which the show will go back to.

I'm pretty sure I know the direction the romantic side of the show will go, I started thinking that way when the episode 13 synopsis first leaked and episodes 10-14 have imo increased the chances of it turning out how I think it will, as have the synopsis for 15-18.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can correct me, don't you mean that Alto will start realizing his dormant feelings for Sheryl once Sheryl seriously starts going for Alto? And the kiss in 10 is supposed to be one of the key scenes? Since you're pretty sure this is how it will go, I merely pointed out how shaky this is since Alto's reaction towards Sheryl's kiss can either be seen as a bland reaction or markings of attraction. From how I see it, he just gave her a bland reaction. lol

Just because Alto's seriously figuring out what she's thinking doesn't mean that he's starting to get attracted to Sheryl Nome's "charms". It goes either way. It's either he's not interested, or he is. This is also the same girl who grabbed her chest in front of Alto and got another bland reaction the next episode. Again. What makes it so absolute that Alto will suddenly realize his dormant feelings (if there's any) for Sheryl once she starts going for Alto? You're 100% convinced that the "romantic side" of the story will play out this way with no stronger evidences to back it up but subjective histories. I see you stopped doing Kawamori history, but now you're just back to Osana-najimi (sp) anime history.

Besides, like it or not, that SherylxAlto kiss was used as a plot device for Ranka. The focus the story gave to that kiss was so Ranka could realize her own feelings FOR Alto and do her job properly. If the romantic side of the story is supposed to build on this said plot device, then why did the story feel the need to showcase Ranka and Alto's kiss more? ^_^ If all of us here agrees that romance is a big part of Macross Frontier, then surely, the story will look AT the romance of its intended couple. This goes for either Ranka or Sheryl----I'm just glad the story is looking at Ranka's love life.

Originally Posted by Teletha

The nit picking arguments about who blushes more, laughs louder, has more ~eye flickering~ , or what our 9 year old cousins think is just frankly too stupid to even argue about.

There's nothing stupid about comparing Alto's behavior when it comes to Ranka and Sheryl. It's considering the main character's feelings into account and seeing things objectively. Isn't this the right way to convince people? It becomes stupid to argue once people fail to see the point and make themselves think the comparison is about "who's the better clown/blushing machine/etc, this or that?"

[mike_s_6]

Okay, referee time. No one knows for sure where this will go, we only have strong hunches, but that doesn't make it reality. Our hunches may turn out to be real, but a strong hunch does not MAKE things happen.


I have a strong feeling that it will sway to Sheryl's side strongly though, at least once, before the series ends. Whether or not it will end there, well, that's the scriptwriter's choice.

[ani_d]

Well, Sheryl has to have a comeback somehow or the LT in the show won't be a LT lol

Anyway....more than the Sheryl super move, I'm more worried about Ranka dying or leaving in the end, but let's not talk about Ranka here.

[Westlo]

Ranka won't die, I'm sure of it now after 14, she still has a very high chance of a Varja end but she won't die, though I guess some Varja endings for her she might as well be dead...

Originally Posted by ani_d

Before we get too ahead of ourselves, I'm merely replying on this assumption.

I too would shift the topic if I got hammered like you did

Unless I'm mistaken, you can correct me, don't you mean that Alto will start realizing his dormant feelings for Sheryl once Sheryl seriously starts going for Alto?

Duh

And the kiss in 10 is supposed to be one of the key scenes? Since you're pretty sure this is how it will go, I merely pointed out how shaky this is since Alto's reaction towards Sheryl's kiss can either be seen as a bland reaction or markings of attraction. From how I see it, he just gave her a bland reaction. lol

You thought Cathy was pregnant, you thought Grace was not a bad guy (even though people who knew it was her voice said so and there was enough hints beforehand), your interpretations of scenes aren't exactly foolproof, neither are mine (In 13 you thought Ranka would ask Alto about his past, I thought she would being up Sheryl but we had no idea about that twist) but you've stuffed up a lot as your Sheryl predictions have shown.

Just because Alto's seriously figuring out what she's thinking doesn't mean that he's starting to get attracted to Sheryl Nome's "charms". It goes either way. It's either he's not interested, or he is. This is also the same girl who grabbed her chest in front of Alto and got another bland reaction the next episode. Again.

Did you even bother to read what you replied to in the first place? Sheryl laughing the kiss off in episode 10 confirmed for Alto that what he said to Michael in episode 8 was true. Hence his reaction to her in episode 11 until she mentioned the present. Look at everything after the present until Ranka's arrival on Gallia IV. His overwhelming enthusiasm to get to Gallia IV so he can fly in a real sky, his concern for a collapsed Sheryl, his complete shock at Sheryl's attempt to get up that made him intend to try a suicidal rescue attempt.

What makes it so absolute that Alto will suddenly realize his dormant feelings (if there's any) for Sheryl once she starts going for Alto?

Because Alto isn't going to go out of the blue "oh screw Ranka I'm gonna try and bag Sheryl".

You're 100% convinced that the "romantic side" of the story will play out this way with no stronger evidences to back it up but subjective histories.

No my evidence is in the show and the way the romance has been built up.

I see you stopped doing Kawamori history.

I stopped a long time ago which is why I was amazed you kept bringing it up when I never even mentioned it in the first place.... numerous times I've typed up a post and you write it off as "more kawamori history" and I'm left thinking.. when the fuck did I een bring up Kawamori.

but now you're just back to Osana-najimi (sp) anime history.

Oh please, while I'm partial to childhood friends I'm not exactly Dragonkain when it comes to that and it was the first comparison that came to mind for Alto and Sheryl's relationship. Not happy with the childhood friend comparison than refer to Ryoko and Izumida from Ryoko's Case Files. This sort of relationship has been done countless times before.

Besides, like it or not, that SherylxAlto kiss was used as a plot device for Ranka. The focus the story gave to that kiss was so Ranka could realize her own feelings FOR Alto and do her job properly.

Believe it or not but a show can use one event and build up multiple things from it, no really it can happen!

FYI. I wasn't "BS-ing" when I said I couldn't find any fault in OD's analysis of Alto.

Lame ani_d, please pick up your game. Alto is not jealous around Ranka and he didn't completely dismiss Sheryl's fame as shown 5 minutes later after that comment. Also you need to realize that a lot of the stuff BleahOD said actually works to Sheryl's advantage, it's all a matter of perspective and "understanding". I can use 30-40% of her argument for a Pro Sheryl and Alto post...

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Lame ani_d, please pick up your game. Alto is not jealous around Ranka and he didn't completely dismiss Sheryl's fame as shown 5 minutes later after that comment. Also you need to realize that a lot of the stuff BleahOD said actually works to Sheryl's advantage, it's all a matter of perspective and "understanding". I can use 30-40% of her argument for a Pro Sheryl and Alto post...

Oh, please do. You, Justin and Swampstorm are the ones whose arguments I enjoy most here, as they tend to be the most detailed ( no snub to others on the Sheryl side, just as I see it. ).

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Oh gosh, leave my nine year old cousin alone -_- lol! More so than a 9 year old judging Alto's reaction, I'm merely pointing out that it's evident that Alto's reaction just looked bland in that scene. If we saw the same thing, then I'm pretty sure we both saw Alto go like this---> "=/"

You were the one who brought it up. Teletha summed up my intentions nicely; I realize that it can get aggravating at times, I would be annoyed too if I were faced with pompous people like me, Westlo and Tak and his Tanks LMAO , so there's a lot of butting heads going on (which I happily jumped into as well!) which is why it's cool that you're keeping the Ranka fort as steady as you can. However, the nine year old bit was just asking to be attacked so don't lose your cool and don't let the shipping goggles do that much talking for you next time.

[Tak]

ani_d did provide a funny idea. I am going to take the screen shot and display it in my psychology class, I wonder what they would say about that

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, please do. You, Justin and Swampstorm are the ones whose arguments I enjoy most here, as they tend to be the most detailed ( no snub to others on the Sheryl side, just as I see it. ).

Yeah yeah, and I love you too.

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tak

Yeah yeah, and I love you too.

- Tak

<g> Sorry, sorry.

[justinstrife]

ani_d has this strange thought in her head, that Macross Frontier is really, Macross Ranka! That's why everything is slanted in her thinking. This comes up again in another thread, where she criticizes Sheryl fans, for trying to turn this into Macross Sheryl.

In truth, Ranka, Alto, and Sheryl are the main characters of this show, and are shown in different ways. While we see more into Ranka's mind and thoughts, we're also shown more complex emotions and thoughts between Alto and Sheryl(not necessarily towards each other just as a general case). This show isn't about only one character, it's about all three of them.

This explains why ani_d only sees the kiss in episode 10, as growth for Ranka, and not growth for both Ranka AND Sheryl. The whole point of that scene was to show the viewers, Sheryl's growing attraction and feelings towards Alto, as well as making Ranka figure out as well, her feelings for him. It was very well played IMO. The only downer is, some people either aren't sharp enough, or are too narrow-minded, to realize the significance of that scene for BOTH GIRLS.

Okay I'm late for work, looking forward to seeing new posts tonight.

magnuskn: You give me far too much credit. My posts aren't that great or significant to the equation. I am humbly thankful though for your praise.

[Swampstorm]

That was the most masterful appeal to authority that I've seen in some time.

Spoiler for 4koma:

@stray:
There's a difference between trying to elicit a response and trying to gauge a response. You can't be tricksey and giddy at the same time.

Strength of character depends on how you act in spite of adversity, not in the absence of it. Everyone has problems, but most people sit around waiting for someone to rescue them. But when you have the guts to grab hold of the controls even in the face of fear, that's the mark of true strength.

You can only have courage when you're afraid.

Everyone faces fear of loss at some point or the other. But as we saw rather clearly in the past two episodes, Sheryl chose to throw her support completely behind Alto, even in the face of her fears for his safety. That's what makes all the difference.