2012-08-12, 22:58 | Link #4781 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Or that is pretty
You know, I dont have problem with people liking him as character.He indeed is a good character.But I dont understand why people try to justify everything that the character they like do. He obviously do things that arent written to look like good actions, his actions are written to move the plot and put political and ideological tension toward Heero. Quote:
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2012-08-12, 23:18 | Link #4782 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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Just like Heero wasn't manipulated by Epyon? Right... Zero and Epyon systems have shown that they can screw with anyone's mind. The difference is that the Epyon system didn't drive Millardo mad, all it did was push him on a path that he thought would bring about peace.
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2012-08-13, 08:04 | Link #4783 | |||
Shall we?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
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*looks through the episodes* Right, he takes the helmet off after he can't kill Noin to get to Peacemillion. Huh, that's more of a shipping moment than I thought... Anyway, suppose Zechs is not using Epyon's ZERO system anymore, does it say anywhere that Heero is using his during their battle? I was looking for the tell-tale yellow screens but I found none in that fight, unlike during the first time they duke it out in those suits. So, instead of an inconsistency, could it be that they're not using the system altogether? Quote:
Compare that to the likes of Trowa, who slips in somersaults while taking out projectiles, or Duo, who can both cripple and disarm someone with one shot, or Noin, who's coolly shooting off MSs' legs in a crappy old model while bullets are coming at her from all sides. It also doesn't help that Heero's buster rifles usually cover a large radius when he fires them, so it's not like he needs to be exceptionally precise. Just look at Libra or the bunker in Brussels. I know it was done for dramatic effect, but it took him five million hours to take aim. xD Quote:
The ZERO system was just what kept him from realizing his mistake after he blew up the first colony (or resource satellite, I think it was), hence why he asked himself why he was crying. Since the ZERO system is a combat system that calculates the best course of action to win, without any regards to collateral damage, be it civilians' or even the pilot's life, any compassion Quatre felt was pushed out of his mind. Until Trowa decided to blow himself up. Same with Dorothy, the system made her not give a rat's butt if she'd wreck Libra, as long as she won against the Gundam pilots. Of course there's the whole "showing you the future" mumbo jumbo but if you aren't predisposed to take a certain action (I'm not talking about a battle situation but someone's general convictions and beliefs), the ZERO system won't magically turn you into a world-hating nihilist. Wu Fei alone is proof enough for that. I pointed out in an earlier post that Zechs' twisted idea of turning people into pacifists by abundant slaughter was already present in Antarctica with Relena. Neither Epyon nor Zero were introduced at that point. Aside from that, I believe Zechs was written as a condensed version of Char, hence why he inevitably had to try to throw a big nasty thing at Earth. But no matter what character he's paying homage to, with the way Zechs was written, his actions are entirely his own fault. Epyon might have helped support his decision, but the notion itself was his from the beginning. Last edited by IkuzeMinna; 2012-08-13 at 08:10. Reason: missing words |
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2012-08-13, 13:06 | Link #4784 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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As it stands the only time I can remember it confirmed that Heero activily chooses not to use the System is during Endless Waltz after the activation and then the fight with Wufei up until Zero activates itself under the ocean. Even if we some how accept that Zech's skills jumped infinitely in the last two episodes it just makes even less sense for Heero to suddenly drop Zero, even more when this is a path tha Zero has put Heero on the path to take. |
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2012-08-13, 16:38 | Link #4785 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
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So speaking of the ZERO system, does anyone else like the idea that it had a sort of sentience to it?
Zero was called an "evil" machine in the series, and several times Heero responds to it as if it just told him something telepathically. I know that the Gundam pilots each had an attachment to their Gundams and talked to them like pets, but Heero didn't. He ditched his Gundam at every opportunity and never once showed any remorse for losing it when he destroyed it. He didn't much care about the Zero and let anyone pilot it. So it's very out of character for him to be affectionate with it just for sentimentality like the others. I wish this was explored more in-depth in the series, or maybe later in GoL. It kinda reminds me of a malevolent version of ALICE.
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2012-08-13, 17:13 | Link #4786 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Quote:
Also the big scene in Endless Waltz when Zero powers itself on and stands without Heero doing anything. It's not until Heero moves the thrusters that he actually moves the controlls and given Zero "starts" the talk with Heero and motivates him. Also Frozen Teardrop has already built in elements with this when it comes to the Cat personality being injected into Wyvern's systems to calm it down. Wether they really persuse this though I tend to doubt but it's certainly something that has been discussed alot and something that both Bandai and other forms of Heero have played with. |
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2012-08-13, 18:56 | Link #4787 | |
Mama there goes that man!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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He wasn't manipulated by a machine, but it's not far-fetched to think the Zero System didn't act as a guide to an extent, the same way it did for Treize and Wufei. Up until joining the White Fang, Zechs had been part of OZ without an identity or cause. He wanted revenge for the destruction for the Sanc Kingdom but his battles had no real meaning (leading him to develop an "aesthetic sense in war"). He touches on this in Episode 16 when he commends Heero and company for fighting for the colonies. Fighting to protect what Relena was building and ultimately being too late to save the Sanc Kingdom from collapsing again left him without purpose again. He realized that he could use the White Fang on his own but the Zero System likely played a small factor as well.
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2012-08-13, 21:43 | Link #4792 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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So wether that means more Early Types like Tallgeese, Kai's and Zero from EW or something from Frozen Teardrop we don't know. |
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2012-08-14, 00:40 | Link #4793 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: refrigerator box
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Quote:
Anyways, looking through the posts about whether Heero and Zechs were using the ZERO Systems during the final battles, I'm pretty sure it's implied that you can be using the ZERO system regardless of whether you have the helmet on or not. Both Heero and Quatre weren't wearing helmets while they had the system active in their gunadms. I can't imagine Heero not using it during the final battle when it was such a great asset to him and he continued to use it in EW. I can't remember or even begin to imagine why the Epyon would employee you having to use the helmet in order for it to function.. but meh, I would like to imagine Zechs's could use whatever system was in his gundam regardless of the helmet... but that's just me. Thanks for the clarification about Aoi. The reason I asked was because I recall reading that Heero Pilot was supposed to somehow be the grandson of Heero Politician. But if Aoi isn't related to the Politician then there's no connection. I'm surprised that Sumizawa hasn't thought of making our Politician and Pilot somehow related
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2012-08-14, 20:47 | Link #4794 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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@eeni: YET. ;(
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as for all this zechs and treize talk, i agree that their motives and reasonings have been made quite clear in the series, although we don't have to agree with either of them. in fact, the GW team doesn't agree with either of them anyways, which is why they don't join either side and just fight to save the earth from libra. god i love this series for making complex, full and round characters. we don't have to like or agree with them, but at least we can understand them. for the most part. |
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2012-08-23, 12:45 | Link #4800 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2010
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No lineart this month...
■新機動戦記ガンダムW フローズンティアドロップ P369- 表紙はモノクロのリリーナとヒイロ。 今月号のタイトルは「胸憶の間奏曲-プリベンター5-後編・2」 挿絵はデュオ・カトル・ドクターJ 核爆破を解除すると同時に「P.P.P」が起動し将来的に 全世界で大殺戮が起きるプログラムが仕掛けられていた。 さらにその解除は「サム」とピースクラフトの人間にしかできない。 意識を取り戻したリリーナは核爆発装置を解除させると同時に 「P.P.P」を起動させる。そして彼女はP.P.Pのコアとなるナノマシンを 自分のモノと連動させ、P.P.Pの発動を長期間にわたって 阻止するために自ら「星の王子様」と呼ばれるコールドスリープ装置に入った。 次号からMC編に戻る。 来月号のガンダムエースはサイコフレームボールペンが付録。 |
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frozen teardrop, glory of the losers, gundam wing |
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