[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Murasaki

Why couldn't Hacchi teleport Bara's hand into Aizen?

If he tried, it would've turned out to be actually Hinamori.

[dragonmeister]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

If he tried, it would've turned out to be actually Hinamori.

And that would have been a bad thing?

[Aqua Knight]

Also Kubo should have left Ichigo's long hair, because then Aizen would be pissed off for having similar hairstyle and would eradicate Ichigo immediately.

[Kinku]

Originally Posted by Gin

Because the majority of Bleach readers/watchers aren't cynical assholes who spend their time looking for things to criticize instead of just enjoying the story.

I am part of that Majority and proud of it

[paradox13]

crazy power 'levels'

and Bleach is still boring.

[JustRob]

Well, one thing the OP has stated I agree with: Kira's shikai is overpowered.

Basically any opponent who uses a physical weapon is screwed. Just look at the captains: With Kira's shikai, he could defeat

Soi Fon (debatable),
Byakuya (all his flowers would just drop to the ground),
Komamura (he needs to swing his sword to control the giant),
Shunsui (if he can't swing both swords he's dead),
Toushirou (his entire ice dragon would probably drop to the ground),
Mayuri (shikai, bankai is debatable),
Jyuushirou (up until now he didn't really use his swords for melee, but even then it would be hard to use the reflect attack ability if he can't lift them)

So Kira can probably wipe out most captains with his shikai alone, or at least his sword trumps all of theirs. I can't wait to find out what this guy's bankai is.

[dragonmeister]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Well, one thing the OP has stated I agree with: Kira's shikai is overpowered.

Basically any opponent who uses a physical weapon is screwed. Just look at the captains: With Kira's shikai, he could defeat

Soi Fon (debatable),
Byakuya (all his flowers would just drop to the ground),
Komamura (he needs to swing his sword to control the giant),
Shunsui (if he can't swing both swords he's dead),
Toushirou (his entire ice dragon would probably drop to the ground),
Mayuri (shikai, bankai is debatable),
Jyuushirou (up until now he didn't really use his swords for melee, but even then it would be hard to use the reflect attack ability if he can't lift them)

So Kira can probably wipe out most captains with his shikai alone, or at least his sword trumps all of theirs. I can't wait to find out what this guy's bankai is.

I think you're forgetting Gin - his sword extends massively (held in one hand) so double its weight several times and he's firing it into the ground, although...

Spoiler for Manga spoiler:

Gin can stand holding a 13km sword for his bankai, Kaminishi no Yari, so that might not actually work

And Kenpachi would also fail - he's very melee based, although I guess he'd just take off his eyepatch and lift it with sheer awesome 11th division bravado

[ShadowSeed]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Well, one thing the OP has stated I agree with: Kira's shikai is overpowered.

Basically any opponent who uses a physical weapon is screwed. Just look at the captains: With Kira's shikai, he could defeat

Soi Fon (debatable),
Byakuya (all his flowers would just drop to the ground),
Komamura (he needs to swing his sword to control the giant),
Shunsui (if he can't swing both swords he's dead),
Toushirou (his entire ice dragon would probably drop to the ground),
Mayuri (shikai, bankai is debatable),
Jyuushirou (up until now he didn't really use his swords for melee, but even then it would be hard to use the reflect attack ability if he can't lift them)

So Kira can probably wipe out most captains with his shikai alone, or at least his sword trumps all of theirs. I can't wait to find out what this guy's bankai is.

Well, there is also the question has he enough speed to touch the opponents. The captains are fast enough to stab through the poor guy's corpse over 10 times before he can block them, if they really put effort in it.


Because power levels matter in Bleach.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Well, one thing the OP has stated I agree with: Kira's shikai is overpowered.

Basically any opponent who uses a physical weapon is screwed. Just look at the captains: With Kira's shikai, he could defeat

Soi Fon (debatable),
Byakuya (all his flowers would just drop to the ground),
Komamura (he needs to swing his sword to control the giant),
Shunsui (if he can't swing both swords he's dead),
Toushirou (his entire ice dragon would probably drop to the ground),
Mayuri (shikai, bankai is debatable),
Jyuushirou (up until now he didn't really use his swords for melee, but even then it would be hard to use the reflect attack ability if he can't lift them)

So Kira can probably wipe out most captains with his shikai alone, or at least his sword trumps all of theirs. I can't wait to find out what this guy's bankai is.

Soi Fon I think would beat Kira because giving weight to that finger doesn't do much if she can hold thank huge bankai
Byakuya I think is debatable because he doesn't really touch the petals
Everyone one else he could beat except Yamamoto and Aizen

[Haak]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Well, one thing the OP has stated I agree with: Kira's shikai is overpowered.

Basically any opponent who uses a physical weapon is screwed. Just look at the captains: With Kira's shikai, he could defeat

Soi Fon (debatable),
Byakuya (all his flowers would just drop to the ground),
Komamura (he needs to swing his sword to control the giant),
Shunsui (if he can't swing both swords he's dead),
Toushirou (his entire ice dragon would probably drop to the ground),
Mayuri (shikai, bankai is debatable),
Jyuushirou (up until now he didn't really use his swords for melee, but even then it would be hard to use the reflect attack ability if he can't lift them)

So Kira can probably wipe out most captains with his shikai alone, or at least his sword trumps all of theirs. I can't wait to find out what this guy's bankai is.

That's ridiculous. You're assuming that Kira will be able to actually block any of the attacks the captains throw at him which he probably won't be able to with a large majority of them, if not all of them:
He couldn't possibly block Soi Fon's shikai. Even Yorouchi wasn't able to and she's the freaking Godess of Speed!
He couldn't possiblly block all of Byakuya's petals if they're ALL coming at him. They're all individual petals and could come at him from every side.
And for the others it depends on whether he can effectively use his shikai against them before they do. Problem is that his shikai requires contact in order to work whilst theirs doesn't.
And just so you know, when Toshiro fought Gin, Kira got easily swept away by Toshiro's Ice dragon without so much as an afterthought.

[Casshern]

Imo most captains should be able to cleave Kira's zanpakutou in half, along with Kira, in the first attack without even releasing. I don't think the shikai ability itself is all that hax either. I can only see it working on someone like Ikkaku.

Aside from that, I think Kira's shikai goes against the laws of nature in the bleach world. Since shinigami are spirits and zanpakutou are made of spirit particles, the way I see it, increasing the zanpakutou's mass should only increase its power.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Basically any opponent who uses a physical weapon is screwed. Just look at the captains: With Kira's shikai, he could defeat

Soi Fon (debatable),
Byakuya (all his flowers would just drop to the ground),
Komamura (he needs to swing his sword to control the giant),
Shunsui (if he can't swing both swords he's dead),
Toushirou (his entire ice dragon would probably drop to the ground),
Mayuri (shikai, bankai is debatable),
Jyuushirou (up until now he didn't really use his swords for melee, but even then it would be hard to use the reflect attack ability if he can't lift them)

So Kira can probably wipe out most captains with his shikai alone, or at least his sword trumps all of theirs. I can't wait to find out what this guy's bankai is.

Soi Fon... her high speed has kira completely trumped... she'd probably kill him long before he landed a hit. Granted landing a few strikes is all that would be need since that would weigh her down and force her to move slower...

Byakuya... Kira's shikai would be useless as the petals are each individual blades, strike one and one falls... he'd have to strike the millions of blades INDIVIDUALLY to make them fall

Toushiro... Pretty sure he can just let the ice dragon fall apart and form a new one out of the water in the atmosphere

Another thing to consider is the strength of the characters... the stronger they are the more weight they are capable of supporting unhindered. Someone physically weak would be weighed down in only a few strikes, but someone like Komamura or Kenpachi have mosnterous strength and may take many strikes before they start to feel the effect of the attack

[secretzfan]

Soi Fon... her high speed has kira completely trumped... she'd probably kill him long before he landed a hit. Granted landing a few strikes is all that would be need since that would weigh her down and force her to move slower...

Soi fon could survive strikes from Kira easily after all she could hold a huge bankai

Byakuya... Kira's shikai would be useless as the petals are each individual blades, strike one and one falls... he'd have to strike the millions of blades INDIVIDUALLY to make them fall

His bankai would be even worse on Kira

[JustRob]

Originally Posted by Haak

That's ridiculous. You're assuming that Kira will be able to actually block any of the attacks the captains throw at him which he probably won't be able to with a large majority of them, if not all of them:
He couldn't possibly block Soi Fon's shikai. Even Yorouchi wasn't able to and she's the freaking Godess of Speed!
He couldn't possiblly block all of Byakuya's petals if they're ALL coming at him. They're all individual petals and could come at him from every side.
And for the others it depends on whether he can effectively use his shikai against them before they do. Problem is that his shikai requires contact in order to work whilst theirs doesn't.
And just so you know, when Toshiro fought Gin, Kira got easily swept away by Toshiro's Ice dragon without so much as an afterthought.

Alright, Soi Fon's shikai I will hand to you. That thing is probably too small to hit effectively.

But you guys seem to be forgetting something about Byakuya. His petals only come out after he releases. Before that, it's a normal sword. So what if Kira hits / blocks Byakuya's sword before he releases? If that happened, then as soon as he would release, all his petals would drop to the ground. Same for bankai.

Toushirou swept Kira away because he wasn't prepared for it. Besides if Toushirou would actually fight Kira he would probably not release Hyourinmaru, so Kira could quickly land some hits.

Zaraki Kenpachi would get absolutely slaughtered. He can be that strong, it doesn't matter a damn thing if he can't lift his sword. Although with insane strength such as Zaraki's, I have to take into account the factor he could end it in one hit. But looking at Kenpachi's fight with Ichigo, he's not the type to go all out immediately, so he would probably take it easy and then Kira could take his chance.

Fact is that Kira's power is not only his zanpaktou, it's the element of surprise. Like Matsumoto said, he doesn't share his secrets with almost anyone, so anyone he fights will maybe deem him a weakling, and then he can do the damage before they even realize what happened.

Don't forget that anything he cuts will get its weight doubled, not just swords. Even if the captains would not draw their sword, a few hits on their bodies is enough.

[secretzfan]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Alright, Soi Fon's shikai I will hand to you. That thing is probably too small to hit effectively.

True

But you guys seem to be forgetting something about Byakuya. His petals only come out after he releases. Before that, it's a normal sword. So what if Kira hits / blocks Byakuya's sword before he releases? If that happened, then as soon as he would release, all his petals would drop to the ground. Same for bankai.

Does it really work that way I mean look at Rangiku. When he tried to put weight on it before it was released it failed

Toushirou swept Kira away because he wasn't prepared for it. Besides if Toushirou would actually fight Kira he would probably not release Hyourinmaru, so Kira could quickly land some hits.

That doesn't exactly mean Toshiro can't create another dragon

Zaraki Kenpachi would get absolutely slaughtered. He can be that strong, it doesn't matter a damn thing if he can't lift his sword. Although with insane strength such as Zaraki's, I have to take into account the factor he could end it in one hit. But looking at Kenpachi's fight with Ichigo, he's not the type to go all out immediately, so he would probably take it easy and then Kira could take his chance.

*Laughs madly* you know that is a natural belief, but you know it is hard to figure out Kenpachi's strength. I mean I think he has the power to topple any person at times. With all the muscle he has it would take plaently of strikes to do damage with Wabisuke

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Don't forget that anything he cuts will get its weight doubled, not just swords. Even if the captains would not draw their sword, a few hits on their bodies is enough.

Now I will tell you what captains it would work on

Ukatakie
Komaura (Maybe)
Mayuri

[Spelt]

Originally Posted by Stormwhite

From the level of intelligence (and grasp of the English language) you've thus far exhibited, I'm not surprised.

And if Kubo did a Claymore-style killing off and killed everyone except for Ichigo and his nakama, the manga might actually be good. Until then, it's a troll manga in my book.

People like you really make me sick. Not everyone lives in an English speaking country. Not everyone is perfect like you.

I would like to see u speak a language you are not used to without flaw.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by JustRob

But you guys seem to be forgetting something about Byakuya. His petals only come out after he releases. Before that, it's a normal sword. So what if Kira hits / blocks Byakuya's sword before he releases? If that happened, then as soon as he would release, all his petals would drop to the ground. Same for bankai.

Toushirou swept Kira away because he wasn't prepared for it. Besides if Toushirou would actually fight Kira he would probably not release Hyourinmaru, so Kira could quickly land some hits.

Zaraki Kenpachi would get absolutely slaughtered. He can be that strong, it doesn't matter a damn thing if he can't lift his sword. Although with insane strength such as Zaraki's, I have to take into account the factor he could end it in one hit. But looking at Kenpachi's fight with Ichigo, he's not the type to go all out immediately, so he would probably take it easy and then Kira could take his chance.

Fact is that Kira's power is not only his zanpaktou, it's the element of surprise. Like Matsumoto said, he doesn't share his secrets with almost anyone, so anyone he fights will maybe deem him a weakling, and then he can do the damage before they even realize what happened.

Don't forget that anything he cuts will get its weight doubled, not just swords. Even if the captains would not draw their sword, a few hits on their bodies is enough.

You're saying that Kira's shikai is overpowered but in order to illustrate this you use situations where others aren't using their shikai. How is that fair? Maybe if Kira hits/blocks Byakuya's sword before Byakuya releases then he could win but the same could be true for any shikai. Besides, Kira wouldn't be able to anyway since Byakuya is too fast. And even if he did somehow manage to hit Byakuya's sowrd, Byakuya could just do what Matsumoto did (The petals wouldn't fall to the ground).

Your opinion of Toshiro is mere speculation. From what we've seen in his fights Toshiro is actually very quick to release shikai, far more so than Kira who you say would only do so as a surprise counter. Again, it's really the case of who releases first. Kira's shikai could beat Toshiro if he hasn't released yet but the same would go for any other shikai if used successfully.

And believe it or not it wouldn't do jack to Kenpachi. Soi Fon's shikai wasn't able to do anything to Aizen because his reiatsu was far to great. The same could easily go for Kenpachi.

Originally Posted by secretzfan

Mayuri

Mayuri would probably just throw a bomb at him.

[edit]

I guess I sound a little too defensive. Sorry about that. I am a bit of a Kira fanboy, I guess.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Alright, Soi Fon's shikai I will hand to you. That thing is probably too small to hit effectively.

But you guys seem to be forgetting something about Byakuya. His petals only come out after he releases. Before that, it's a normal sword. So what if Kira hits / blocks Byakuya's sword before he releases? If that happened, then as soon as he would release, all his petals would drop to the ground. Same for bankai.

Your speculation on Kira beating Byakuya is incorrect.
Remember what he tried to do to Rangiku failed. He tried to stop her sword before its release but it failed because afterward she realsed her sword and it was still able to move

[The Number 3]

What went wrong is that not all decisions Kubo made were in the advantage of every fandom.

=P

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Haak

Mayuri would probably just throw a bomb at him.

that or just poison him since his Shikai also releases a gas since he doesn't necessarily have to cut his enemy.