Difficulty in gaming today

[Sparda4]

As the title of the thread already states but i'll ask in a little more detail.

Is difficulty today gone from games as a whole or is it just very rare ?

[Psyco Diver]

Comparing them to NES days, yes games are very easy today. Even compared to PS1/N64 days games hard modes were really hard. More games seem to focus more on the story and they want players to progress through the game instead of challenging then to beat the game. There are some really good Indie games out that really go back to the old days of difficulty though

[Sparda4]

Then if this is true then can it be fixed ? Indie games do bring back the difficulty but some are full of bugs and some mostly focus on the player controled character and focus little or minimal effort on the opposition

[Jazzrat]

Most Games were difficult back then because they were meant to suck the coins out of you in the arcade. Most games aren't difficult these days because they no longer have to do that shit.


Still there are games that offered a good challenge or complex mechanism for the folks who seeks them. Also most games comes with multiple difficulty settings so just play em on hard mode if you think the default is too easy?

[LoweGear]

XCOM and Dark Souls are among a couple of modern games that definitely doesn't hold back in beating the hell out of your mistakes.

Though as mentioned above, most games have built-in difficult settings nowadays, so just crank up the difficulty if you think it's too easy.

[Marcus H.]

What matters to more people nowadays are several things:

• Original concepts (although people are willing to dismiss things as a ripoff of other games)
• A rich story (although games nowadays are all cutscenes and not much of anything else)
• High replay value
• No mandatory DLC (good luck about this one)

Gaming culture is quite different in nowadays compared to the age of early consoles. People can offer large sums of cash for the games they like, but they can also take back that money the moment they see that the game is not worth it. This mindset affects how games are made—for starters, you wouldn't want to frustrate your players too much to the point of asking for a refund.

That and the people who had been immersed in video games in their childhood have less time to actually play games.

[DragoonKain3]

What I PERSONALLY hate with a passion are games where you have to unlock the hardest difficulty setting by beating the game (ex. Star Ocean and Tokyo Mirage Sessions). I personally like the steep learning curve, and doing Hard Mode FFType-0 and Tales of Graces Hard --> Evil --> Chaos within 500 battles were among my favourite times in my gaming history.

Like seriously, if someone wants to be masochistic, don't let them play the entire game to unlock it.


My personal recommendation for a hard game of recent time? Lunatic Conquest of Fire Emblem Fates, no DLC. On hindsight I didn't enjoy it one bit (I was twice stressed about this more than my day job lol), but it was VERY satisfying to beat the final stage.

[Last Sinner]

Amazed that Cuphead hasn't been mentioned yet. That has a mix of everything Marcus listed along with a very challenging/non-forgiving style of play.

[scharl]

single player games tend to be easy these days, but I rarely play AAA games, so I can't say too much.
Nier Automata was brutal if you start in hard/extreme mode without leveling up.

I think fighting games are probably harder as a whole, as someone who primarily play anime air dashers. or at least go thru a cycle.
Blazblue's gotten to a point where there's 1000 mechanics, and it seems the average person just says they don't know whats going on when they play.
Guilty Gear's gotten somewhat easier, then harder during xrd as they added more mechanics.
Arcana Heart, 1000 mechanics as well as unique play styles, and some really extreme apm during certain combos, and noone can do most critical hearts.
Even Persona and Uniel, and pbly DBFZ which had autocombos, were pretty hard to actually learn to do the real stuff. Compare these to say SF2(old school classic) where it was mostly a simple game without many mechanics, things to keep track of, complex motions, combos to remember, etc.

Music games can be pretty hard, or atleast project diva is on hard/extreme songs. I can't say for things like rock band, guitar hero, since i only tried a bit in beginner. but I'm not sure if they are still making those.

Now another genre as a whole that maybe getting harder or maybe not is racing. which because of realism, are harder to control now, than 20 years ago for most people. But at the same time some games were actually harder because of bad physics that made cars react in weird ways.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Companies want to target a wide variety of people for their games rather than just some diehard Masochists (no offense btw). Despite what people may say, game development or any kind of development costs a lot time and money.

Making a game too hard would make people discouraged/annoyed/bored and they will probably start with another game since there are so many choices. Not everyone has the time or patience to spend on 3-4 games when there are like 20+ choices.

The developers still give you options with Hard, Nightmare, Hell etc difficulties. (Now if only they could get time for good optimized ports). Ultimately companies want more customers and making games too hard would prevent that. The Elites can still start off with the harder difficulties anyway.

Well personally i want to enjoy games and i have a very large list. So it's fine for me if games have a normal/moderate level of difficulty.

[Kafriel]

Gaming difficulty comes in many types. A lot of games are easier today thanks to the improvement of controls; no stiff jumps, highly responsive gear that allows for split-second decisions, to the point of just frames being a thing.

Then there's difficulty like in the games from DragoonKain's post: boost enemy damage while reducing your own, keep everything else the same. Some games do it well, some fail really bad at it. Either way, RPGs become a lot more challenging, FPS games drive your reflexes to the limit (they basically become dodge games) and things like Hell & Hell from DMC are just there for kicks.

Do note, however, that difficulty in terms of HP/dmg for MMOs is an entirely different thing, since its goal is to force a player deep into the game's market, to boost their stats so as to be able to destroy a boss within a certain time limit (the most BS thing ever made).

My favourite type of difficulty comes in the form of enemy A.I. in games like Souls, Monster Hunter and Metal Gear. The game stays practically the same, but enemy arrangement and behaviour call for advance planning, instead of a guns blazing approach, making all those games far more interesting - because they urge the player to experiment with different weapons, loadouts, paths, etc.

All in all, I'd say games are still very much difficult, if you know where to look, but there are also some ridiculously easy ones that offer no challenge at all.

Well personally i want to enjoy games and i have a very large list.

Saturation of a steam library is but a fickle dream these days. Same goes for PSN, and you have to work for all those achievements and trophies, too! Imagine what gaming would be like if all games had a good diccifulty setting that required an additional 10h/game.

[Archon_Wing]

You also have to remember that old games were also frequently hard because of bugs, engine limitations, and design oversights. Obviously you couldn't patch games back then so you just had to deal with it.

Nostalgia might bring up the classics, but it also ignores the hundreds or not thousands of to quote AVGN "Shitload of fuck" games that were simply hard because they were terrible.

There is of course, no doubt, a broader appeal to video games these days, so many games are easier as a result.

[FlareKnight]

It's a fair question being raised to be sure. But I do think games have just changed with time. Games needed to be hard in order to not be too short, due to hardware limitations they were naturally harder, and partly to drag out coins in the arcade.

I do agree that the silliest thing is hiding the hardest difficulty behind beating the game once. I mean...if people want to just play the hardest setting then let them.

The financial side of it is a big thing and probably why the hardest games will usually be indie based. They don't have the same budget going into the game so they can afford to limit their user base by focusing on a specific group that wants harder games. It isn't as if you can't have hard games from bigger studios, but they do have to balance things out so they can still make a profit.

Personally I'm not as invested in the debate. I don't mind games not being gut-punching hard. Mostly since there is only so much time to play games and I'd probably just get frustrated if a game was too hard. Either just from a slower and more careful pace required or because I'm doing badly and it takes longer .

I'm not sure if this can be fixed or if there is something to really fix. The overall difficulty is just another change along with graphics, voice acting, and new types of gameplay that are now possible with the hardware we have. But I think the overall solution is just how effective difficulty settings can be. If they can be handled right then that is the point. You can have the harder games placed within the game that will sell to the mass market.

[Sparda4]

I do agree with the fact that games shouldn't be so hard you need to have a lot of patience or be a monster at understanding complex mechanics but a challange must be given so that you can evolve and adapt as a player. That's what i think atleast.

[The Green One]

"Rage Games" have become their own subgenre, but yeah most developers don't want you to give up on their game and return it to try to get a refund. Even if most stores these days won't even give you that refund but force you to accept in store credit because they refuse to give you your money back unless the game is basically untouched.

[Sparda4]

Well a refund shouldn't be given in the first place. Give out a demo and put it in BIG BOLD LETTERS if you like this game then support it and in the demo should be the lowest of the possible difficulty and highest. Basically give the option to buy a game based on the impression of the mechanics and the style of play and ofcourse how hard is it.

[felix]

I think difficulty (in the sense of "rage inducing BS") has leaned on optional with modern games, which I personally find to be a good thing; I think achievements are generally a favorite way to hide it (kill X with just Y, go though the game with out Z, etc). In-game difficulty "sliders" are kind of hit or miss. Personally don't really recognize anything other then hardcore and "casual" as being different difficulty setting since I feel like it's all just a "time per kill" slider a lot of the time, though some games may enhance the experience in the sense of forcing you to use more of the mechanics properly (I feel those tend to be the exception).

Another thing that's happened is that everything is a lot more demystified so it's not just that it's easier it's that we're all more in the know on how to do it easier. Every trick and tip is just a few keystrokes away.

With regard to non-BS difficulty... it's simple, it doesn't grow on trees. You kind of have to re-invent it each time, and I think we've exhausted most of the good ideas already. And as far as re-using good old ideas goes, well, it's not like we don't. Inevitably some of the not-popular-enough-hard-games just died off, though I don't feel any "hole" anywhere per se. With gaming becoming more of a social common day thing you can't expect the niche to stay in high % in the mainstream, and super hardcore is niche. So just find your niche's corner. To give an example, you have fighting games (a lot of them), pick your poison and go get face rolled.

But well, if you really really need games to be glitchy/hard/unreasonable, you can always speed run the game if you feel it's too easy for your god hands or that the "game mechanics" the developers intended are not pixel precise enough or glitchy enough. There can only be one WR so unless you can somehow hold all WR for all games you're gonna be "not good enough" at most of them, most likely all of them.

If glitchy speed runs are not for you then probably the so called "hard games of old'" are just a unachievable pie in the sky, ie. "We want hard games, because we want/liked to brag about the games we play being hard to our friends" or some other form very specific nostalgia. Often times I feel like I'm reading "hard games" but the subtext is "this really specific genre/game I'm really good at that is considered 'hard' by the mainstream" as opposed to a general sense of hard.

[Sparda4]

You make some good points. It's not the games fault "per se" that it's "easy" it's the age we live in right now. But the whole "every tip and trick is a few keystrokes away" isn't true always. Your not going to get reflexes to register a QTE that isn't holding your hand by looking it up online. But this is just one example. In strategy games you can take the pro's trick but try to use them against them that won't work (if it's a multiplayer game that is) because they know how it works. And i could list some more but you get the picture. Somethings can only be achived by practice. And let me say one more thing on my thoughts on difficulty as a whole. You can keep the current format BUT have a special option for the "Veterans" or the "lab monsters" of difficulty.

[Kafriel]

Games like Riviera: the promised land are to be played without a guide. Not only does it spoil the fun, it ruins the entire game, because it is based on choices. There are many examples of such games, but this is the one I'll always remember as the bane of every completionist.

Games like Dark Souls can be played with a guide, but you will eventually need to git gud, and it's also a lot more fun to play "blind". A friend of mine was stuck at a huge skeleton boss (Wolnir) because he was making a pyromancer (a very slow, harder to learn mage). He ended up beating that huge skeleton...with blessed knuckles. It was the most fun he's had in the whole game so far, but who would have thought to do it, with all the cookie-cutter builds out there?

Game glitches are not an excuse for difficulty, they were not meant to be there in the first place (and people who abuse them for WRs are not true speedrunners). That being said, there are somewhat old games where glitches can lead to permanent character damage, making a game hard enough to enforce a start over.

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by Sparda4

Give out a demo and put it in BIG BOLD LETTERS if you like this game then support it and in the demo should be the lowest of the possible difficulty and highest. Basically give the option to buy a game based on the impression of the mechanics and the style of play and ofcourse how hard is it.

Sadly, demos - as in what used to populate the CDs that came with some gaming magazines back in the day - appear to be a dying thing; one cannot help but wonder why that is. The same thing could be said for shareware (which is how, as I recall, the likes of Duke Nukem 3D and the original Doom got to really take off)... and in my opinion, there's no reason things have to be that way.

On to the subject of difficulty... the original adaptation of GoldenEye handled this less by adding more/tougher enemies than by exposing you to more of the ones already present by expanding your to-do list for a given level (reference) as well as dangling certain unlocks behind beating certain clear times.