Macross Frontier Movie Discussion

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Good to know...

Thanks for the info!

I am so looking forward to a Pink Monsoon Single release \o/

[raile]

Pink Monsoon~ \0/

Can't wait for the trailer. *u*

[DeX-kun]

Sounds great! I really want to see that trailer though

[BanishingBook]

I hope there's more than one song other than Pink Monsoon.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

My only real point there is that she takes the brunt of the blame when others were in exactly the same situation (Alto, Nanase... others?). They both knew about the existence of Ai-kun and chose to do nothing about it either. So saying that 'the rest of the kids may do stupid things, but they never impact anyone but themselves isn't exactly true.

Blaming Alto and Nanase for Ai-kun is like blaming someone's friends for not telling their "no pets" apartment complex about their friend's secret cat. Ai-kun was Ranka's pet--she had claimed ownership of him. (Or for another example, one of my friends has a type of pet, a rodent, that is illegal in the state I live in--think I should ring up the cops?) Both of them knew what Ranka was doing was wrong, but it wasn't really their place to narc on her. Alto told her she was probably going to get in trouble and left it at that.

Yes, you can make an argument that they were "morally obligated" to tell the authorities, but they weren't making little nests and keeping Ai-kun in their bedrooms. There is a difference of degree.

[LC]

Originally Posted by BanishingBook

I hope there's more than one song other than Pink Monsoon.

There's also Ranka's erm..Sou Da Yo...if I remember correctly.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by snowblind

My only real point there is that she takes the brunt of the blame when others were in exactly the same situation (Alto, Nanase... others?). They both knew about the existence of Ai-kun and chose to do nothing about it either.

I don't think anyone realized what Ai-Kun truly was until late in the series, and the reception was pretty obvious, as shown by Alto's reaction to Ai-Kun's evolved form in Episode 21 - until then, they were harboring under the impression that Ai-kun was a harmless, ordinary creature. Luca was the first in the whole group to make the connection, when he noticed the drawing Nanase did and recognized much to his shock that Ai-Kun was actually a Vajra.

[cerrian]

Originally Posted by cheesie

I don't think anyone realized what Ai-Kun truly was until late in the series, and the reception was pretty obvious, as shown by Alto's reaction to Ai-Kun's evolved form in Episode 21 - until then, they were harboring under the impression that Ai-kun was a harmless, ordinary creature. Luca was the first in the whole group to make the connection, when he noticed the drawing Nanase did and recognized much to his shock that Ai-Kun was actually a Vajra.

The issue isn't whether anyone realized that Ai was a baby Vajra, but whether they knew that Ai was of an unsanctioned species in a fragile self-sustained ecological system that has very strict controls on what species are and are not allowed into the Frontier eco-system.

This is where Ranka and Nanase are getting hammered, they knowing provided scanctuary to an unknown species putting at risk Frontier's self-sustaining ecological system when they knew that the right thing to do was report the unknown lifeform to the proper authority. Now, as to whether or not Alto knew...probably not, he most likely just assumed Ai's species was ok to be on Frontier.

As for the movie poster, I actually don't like it. One of the great things about the artwork surrounding Sheryl is that she looks great in all sorts of costumes and settings. The movie poster is too busy and cluttered. It throws all sorts of random crap on top of what could have been an opportunity to showcase Sheryl's sensualness and diva qualities. All that poster attempts to do is flash some of Sheryl's ass and then cover some of the naughty bits with some horrible CG renditions of semi-translucent mechanical gears. Ugh, definitely not a fan of this art direction.

[Snowblind]

Originally Posted by cheesie

I don't think anyone realized what Ai-Kun truly was until late in the series, and the reception was pretty obvious, as shown by Alto's reaction to Ai-Kun's evolved form in Episode 21 - until then, they were harboring under the impression that Ai-kun was a harmless, ordinary creature. Luca was the first in the whole group to make the connection, when he noticed the drawing Nanase did and recognized much to his shock that Ai-Kun was actually a Vajra.

Exactly... It was a misjudgement, but one that lots of people could (and did) make. I don't think Ranka (or Alto, or Nanase) should be condemned for all eternity because of it. No one would cry foul if the same thing had happened and Ai-kun was just a harmless pet and not a Vajra.

Originally Posted by cerrian

The issue isn't whether anyone realized that Ai was a baby Vajra, but whether they knew that Ai was of an unsanctioned species in a fragile self-sustained ecological system that has very strict controls on what species are and are not allowed into the Frontier eco-system.

This is where Ranka, Alto and Nanase are getting hammered, they knowing provided scanctuary to an unknown species putting at risk Frontier's self-sustaining ecological system when they knew that the right thing to do was report the unknown lifeform to the proper authority.

There, fixed. ...Except that Alto and Nanase aren't getting hammered and blame tends to be credited to Ranka alone.

Now, as to whether or not Alto knew...probably not, he most likely just assumed Ai's species was ok to be on Frontier.

...Ehhhhhh? Why is it okay for Alto to assume this? Why wouldn't he know better where Ranka and Nanase should? He knows the rules as well as they do, or vice versa, if you prefer.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

...Ehhhhhh? Why is it okay for Alto to assume this? Why wouldn't he know better where Ranka and Nanase should? He knows the rules as well as they do, or vice versa, if you prefer.

Well, I personally think that the whole blame Ranka for Ai-Kun business has gone too far. The presence of Ai-Kun does not disaster make. Moreover, why should anyone remotely give a shit about Ai-Kun? Its something that is very easy to overlook.

Although I find it surprising that Ranka didn't know what Ai-Kun was.

- Tak

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Pre-Liner Notes, yes. Per-Shaloom, no.

It looks like all the "translations" of early materials were all done by Shaloom.

Basically, anything about Sheryl being conceived of as "Ranka's big sister" is a Shaloomism. And the section about Alto/Ranka/Brera that everyone was talking about? It just says that that is ANOTHER triangle in the show, not that it was the ORIGINAL triangle.

(In the interview with Yoshino in the Official Fan Book, he talks about the muliplicity of triangles in the series, especially about the one he says no one picked up on: Leon/Grace/Birla.)

Actually I think I was the one that threw the tidbit about Yoshino convincing Kawamori to switch away from the two guys and one girl triangle to the Sheryl Sharks. It was from one of the Animage scans from the Macross 25 discussion thread around July of last year.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by ickem

Actually I think I was the one that threw the tidbit about Yoshino convincing Kawamori to switch away from the two guys and one guy triangle to the Sheryl Sharks. It was from one of the Animage scans from the Macross 25 discussion thread around July of last year.

Ah. I figured it was from this:

http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/

Which DOES mention the Alto/Ranka/Brera triangle, but (as I said) as simply another triangle in the story.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Ah. I figured it was from this:

http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/

Which DOES mention the Alto/Ranka/Brera triangle, but (as I said) as simply another triangle in the story.

The same interview also had Kawamori admitting Sheryl's potential, although he admitted to have recognized them too late.

At the end, he did say this about Ranka:

Her weakness is her inability to be more observant of her surroundings.

- Tak

[cerrian]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Exactly... It was a misjudgement, but one that lots of people could (and did) make. I don't think Ranka (or Alto, or Nanase) should be condemned for all eternity because of it. No one would cry foul if the same thing had happened and Ai-kun was just a harmless pet and not a Vajra.



There, fixed. ...Except that Alto and Nanase aren't getting hammered and blame tends to be credited to Ranka alone.



...Ehhhhhh? Why is it okay for Alto to assume this? Why wouldn't he know better where Ranka and Nanase should? He knows the rules as well as they do, or vice versa, if you prefer.

The only reason Alto doesn't get flamed for it is because there is nothing in the show that suggests that Alto is aware that Ai is an unauthorized lifeform on Frontier. Compare that with Ranka and Nanase who have a very explict conversation about hiding and keeping secret an alien lifeform that they know is unauthorized in Frontier's ecosystem. That's the key here.

We have irrefutable proof that Ranka and Nanase are aware that Ai is an unauthroized lifeform on Frontier and that they take actions to not report and hide Ai, thereby putting the balance of Frontier's ecosystem at risk. Unfortunately we don't have the same level of solid evidence that either Beara or Alto were even aware that Ai was an unauthorized lifeform. So it make it that much harder to condem those two for their lack of action of reporting Ai even though they were the only other ones besides Ranka and Nanase to interact with Ai.

As Tak says, the Ai issue is really small fries in comparison with other events that define the characters. All it does is put another underline on the maturity and irresponsibility facets of Rankas character. I doubt that the writers were planning for any complex character defining moments other than a quick excuse to put a cute pet into the storyline....but eh, this is what we got intentional or not.

Now on the topic of Ai itself, Tak has a point. You could write Ai out of the entire script and you wouldn't even notice it. Ai is worse than Nanase in that it has almost no purpose whatsoever to the Frontier storyline.

edit - oh, the reason we don't hear more condemnations for Nanase's actions is because like Ai, she's an inconsequential character. Hopefully the movie takes steps to remedy it as I have no hope of them writing her out.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by ickem

Actually I think I was the one that threw the tidbit about Yoshino convincing Kawamori to switch away from the two guys and one girl triangle to the Sheryl Sharks. It was from one of the Animage scans from the Macross 25 discussion thread around July of last year.

Ah, I know it~ ickem makes me remember about the time when I have yet to terrorize join here =D (Thankfully, one or two argumentation and ickem's reply to translate bits from the scans make me remember at least at which pages the scan was supposed to be )

Here is the scans that ickem means Yot-chan. But unfortunately, the scan is taken down already I guess one of us might have the scans saved on their computer, but who knows D:

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

The same interview also had Kawamori admitting Sheryl's potential, although he admitted to have recognized them too late.


- Tak

Really? Where?
Kawamori's Commentary:
シェリルはいいですよね。本当に“ツンデレ”と言ってしまいたくはないんだけれども、強さともろさが一番美 味しくミックスしている感じですよね。女の人から見ても、あのぐらい思い切って言ってくれる人がいるといい ですよね。最初は嫌われるぐらいに出しておいて、だんだんかわいい面を出していこうと（笑）。でもそれが、 一歩間違えると本当にただのどぎつい子になってしまうのを、歌のMay'nさんも声優の遠藤綾さんもうまく 表現してくれた。そのおかげで、いいバランスになったんじゃないかと思いますね。アフレコの時には、かわい い部分とキツイ部分のバランスをとるのが難しいんですよね。決まると気持ちいいんですけど（笑）。決まるま でがすごく……という苦労も見せない子ですよね（笑）。

By the way, I think I found the July 2008 Animage scans, but the images are gone. Anyone have 'em?

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Ah. I figured it was from this:

http://www.presepe.jp/m44/sp/id/BeWkJEnOCYY=/

Which DOES mention the Alto/Ranka/Brera triangle, but (as I said) as simply another triangle in the story.

It seems that the links in the Macross 25 thread are dead. I can send the scan to anyone who isn't as lazy as I am if they wanna t/l it.

[Snowblind]

Originally Posted by cerrian

The only reason Alto doesn't get flamed for it is because there is nothing in the show that suggests that Alto is aware that Ai is an unauthorized lifeform on Frontier. Compare that with Ranka and Nanase who have a very explict conversation about hiding and keeping secret an alien lifeform that they know is unauthorized in Frontier's ecosystem. That's the key here.

We have irrefutable proof that Ranka and Nanase are aware that Ai is an unauthroized lifeform on Frontier and that they take actions to not report and hide Ai, thereby putting the balance of Frontier's ecosystem at risk. Unfortunately we don't have the same level of solid evidence that either Beara or Alto were even aware that Ai was an unauthorized lifeform. So it make it that much harder to condem those two for their lack of action of reporting Ai even though they were the only other ones besides Ranka and Nanase to interact with Ai.

Actually, he does. Episode 17. Ranka tells him all about Ai-kun. He even says he doesn't care if people find out and she gets scolded. So he knows, and chooses to take no action on it.

Even without that line, why should Alto be any less aware than Ranka? He's not new to Frontier. He's been privy to the same education, warnings and ecosystem knowledge as Ranka.

As Tak says, the Ai issue is really small fries in comparison with other events that define the characters. All it does is put another underline on the maturity and irresponsibility facets of Rankas character. I doubt that the writers were planning for any complex character defining moments other than a quick excuse to put a cute pet into the storyline....but eh, this is what we got intentional or not.

Now on the topic of Ai itself, Tak has a point. You could write Ai out of the entire script and you wouldn't even notice it. Ai is worse than Nanase in that it has almost no purpose whatsoever to the Frontier storyline.

Then it's a mark against all three of them, at least. And like I said, if Ai really was a simple alien squirrel, and not the harbinger of a Vajra infestation, I'm willing to bet we wouldn't be having this conversation, and everyone would be happy to let it slide.

The plot simply demanded that Ranka come into contact with Ai the Vajra (which helps her to learn about them and the way they think, that they're not malevolent, and ultimately leads to a peaceful resolution with their species etc etc). So... you could come up with other ways of doing the same thing, but Ai did have his place in the series as presented.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Really? Where?
Kawamori's Commentary:
シェリルはいいですよね。本当に“ツンデレ”と言ってしまいたくはないんだけれども、強さともろさが一番美 味しくミックスしている感じですよね。女の人から見ても、あのぐらい思い切って言ってくれる人がいるといい ですよね。最初は嫌われるぐらいに出しておいて、だんだんかわいい面を出していこうと（笑）。でもそれが、 一歩間違えると本当にただのどぎつい子になってしまうのを、歌のMay'nさんも声優の遠藤綾さんもうまく 表現してくれた。そのおかげで、いいバランスになったんじゃないかと思いますね。アフレコの時には、かわい い部分とキツイ部分のバランスをとるのが難しいんですよね。決まると気持ちいいんですけど（笑）。決まるま でがすごく……という苦労も見せない子ですよね（笑）。

By the way, I think I found the July 2008 Animage scans, but the images are gone. Anyone have 'em?

My bad, that was another interview. This is the one where Kawamori stated that he didn't like her at first.

- Tak

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

My bad, that was another interview. This is the one where Kawamori stated that he didn't like her at first.

- Tak

Does it even say that? I thought he was talking generally...y'know, "You don't like people like that at first, but then they show you their cute side."